| IVOD_ID |
163162 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163162 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-16T11:41:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-16T11:54:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c9429a73bae53e00b5ffbf4a17761229598e56ead14a87f2c80b78dbb6162d25f23dfb7261517ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:41:01 - 11:54:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、內政部警政署署長、教育部、勞動部、內政部移民署率所屬相關單位列席就「保護令不是萬能的?!如何避免憾事再度發生。家庭暴力防治法保護令核發，研析配套措施之檢討與精進，並提供相關統計數據」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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我們需要一個正確的、清楚的法治教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這個不管是複密或是許次啊今天有我們的在野黨的委員剛剛在其他的委員會質詢語出驚人啊他說我們當然對於台電的理性員工他因為救災而大家全民為他集氣但是剛剛最一個好消息他慢慢的恢復心跳了所以全民一起為我們辛苦的台電人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
給他最高的祝福,希望他能夠挺過難關,能夠早日康復但是呢,非常遺憾在野黨的委員,剛剛在未還委員會語出驚人他說台灣葉克摩最厲害的是柯文哲醫師所以呢,不可以把柯文哲關著,要把柯文哲放出去救台電員工才對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
台電董事長去醫院幹嘛經濟部郭部長去醫院幹嘛要把柯文哲放出去去救台電員工才對我們需要一個正確的法治教育如果說醫生犯罪不能關因為他要救人那一樣立法委員犯罪不能關 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
112.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為他要去選民服務有存在這種謬論嗎來 我們法界代表推派一位等一下呂次長你可能也想要回應一下來 看是徐次好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
143.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好委員好你認同這種說法嗎我們需要給國人正確的法治教育跟委員報告我們尊重陳委員的發言任何人都可以講他想講的話但是因為他所提到的柯市長他現在因為還有其他的因素在羈押中目前沒有辦法是不可能也不應該有法律的程序他是被告的嫌疑人來呃呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
144.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
科醫師現在可以出去執業嗎報告委員 這個我們也是如同市長剛剛說我覺得這個我們尊重陳委員的一個高見但是這個法有名文也有相關的規定那我們其實這法治國家就應該按照法治國家的程序來進行以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
164.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
167.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們同樣的面對這樣的立委質詢我們要清楚的向國人法治教育否則呢今天可能網路上社群上又有很多亂帶風向的作為我們依循法治國家任何的被害嫌疑人當然有他的司法人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
可以透過任何方式去捍衛他的司法正義但是循程序中他現在在演壓中而且也剛開完演壓廷我們要相信司法檢調人員的獨立辦案所以並不存在柯文哲的葉克膜很厲害所以現在要救台電員工要把柯文哲放出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
216.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們也再次呼籲希望讓台電員工有更好的職場作業的安全我們應當一起來支持台電必要的預算來強化國家的電網韌性來強化優化人民的供電安全好 謝謝 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
今天質詢的主題呢我們針對當然土城的不幸事件讓我們通案來從個案來檢視通案的制度我剛剛有看到黃國昌委員的槌尋他說違反保護令的裁判情形呢他恐怕是認為過輕啦因為拘役的七成三六個月以下有期徒刑是22.8%但是整個定罪率是來到97%嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
257.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我另外具體的統計了近十年2015到2024家暴案件執行家暴案件最終經過司法的程序去偵辦最終的有罪判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有68.75%這十年來居易是四成六個月以下是16%當然也有無罪的那也有相當高的比例27%是不受理的因為可能有人撤銷撤回或是和解嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
297.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以說如果就這個數字來看可能會誤導了國人認為說即使有保護令的制度即使有違反保護令罪即使我們對於家暴案件也立了專法大家投入來偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
299.136 |
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325.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是我不希望因為家暴真的是清官很難去定家內事他還是要依循他犯罪的事實而且我們要尊重司法個案的查辦每個case狀況不一樣而且我們要符合憲法23條的避利原則我們更要符合罪行相當的原則重罪不能輕放但小罪也不能重罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這是有憲法的比例原則跟罪行相當的原則所以我是希望說我們的案非常遺憾我們都不希望有任何的家暴案件更不容許發生這種在保護令期間就被傷害了犧牲寶貴的生命但是不要用極端的個案以為重罰重罰重罰就可以了事我的論點你們都同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
355.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 下一頁你們三個都站得很遠欸那誰代表一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
357.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
383.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
來 呂氏你要說嗎不是 我簡單 我簡單回應那個委員我們其實前幾天有開一個那個檢討 重大案件檢討會議其實有委員也有提到就是說其實有時候你用這個重法你用這個重案 比如說它你該羈押當然要羈押 可是如果不該羈押你違反比例原則 其實反而會刺激到這一個整個 這一個加害者的情緒嘛 它以後就導入 也許有人想要挽回家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
384.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
406.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我就這裡面當然就是確實有很多面向要考慮我稍後在政策會讓你回應我們的主席也應該能夠理解所以我要說亂世用重點就對了嗎亂世用重點的下一句話叫做攻心才是上策也就是防止家暴 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
420.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我的看法 事前的防範防治絕對是重於事後的重罰所以事前的防範是什麼就要從制度下手尤其是你們7月14號的緊急擴大會議我們訂定了針對高風險的個案要啟動安全的計畫而且呢 必須是跨系統的協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
431.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也就是不是只有衛福部的事也不是只有社政機關的事更不是只有警察機關的事也不是推給司法機關就能了事所以民團的呼籲我相信你們都聽進去了高風險個案的個別化安全計畫的跨系統協作而不是單一機制來單打獨鬥 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我說的單一機制包括站在眼前的呂次長衛福部常常被究責但是這是一個跨系統的協作所以說呢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
470.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
492.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這是你們7月14號全面性跨部會檢討精進的幾個五大結論所以最重要的是不是就是你認為這其實對我長期關心的人來講我會覺得很多都是我們一再強調的只是執行要更落實你有沒有認為哪一項是我們新的指引要跟國人報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
493.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
518.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員非常感謝委員對於我們推動小組的關注我們這五個大重點裡面其實剛剛法務部徐市長還有特別談到未來在有關保護令的核發的部分其實我們一定要有一個警政這邊的資料還有我們社工這邊的資料一定要提供更詳實的一個information要不然其實老實說我們檢察官其實老實說也非常辛苦他們也不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
518.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
534.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他們一定要看這個相關的這個information所以這個是我們未來在這個部分一定要來強化的部分也就是說對於施暴者他的進一步的data譬如說他是不是有犯罪前科他是不是有精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
535.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
549.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
相關的疾病他是不是有酗酒吸毒各方面會讓他更成為施以暴力在保護令的執行期間的那個危險因子嘛所以這需要跨系統的協作來 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
551.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
571.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 那就回到前一頁那我作為立法委員我過去在台北市議會我也分享一個我當時催生的一個機制可以讓我們的警政系統來協助我們今天內政部副署長也在因為我們知道我們在地方都會每一季都會開地方的治安會議那治安會報呢我幾乎當議員的期間我都會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
576.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
605.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
治安會報就是包括我們的各地的分局譬如說我在北投分局的治安會報士林分局的治安會報然後會邀請我們所有的派出所的主管所長會邀請我們所有的里長我們地方的重要人士包括民意代表我當時就催生了一件事情也就是說在治安會報的時候來我們警政署的代表治安會報的時候其實有幾個案類是每一次都要跟市民報告的你知道哪些案類嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
607.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
610.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是刑事案件重大刑事案件哪些類 竊盜 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
612.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
625.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
重大的刑案像殺人案或者搶奪或者是像詐騙或是竊盜等等都有那家暴的部分如果家防中心一般來說也有參加所以有個我想要副所長報告當時我當台北市議員十多年前我每一次參加治安會議我發現這是一個很好的機制每一次的治安會議你都被人家所以可以告訴大家我們的轄區內以北投區這一季發生了幾起竊盜案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
641.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
659.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
發生了幾起刑事案件傷害案件發生了幾起詐騙案詐騙案是現在新加入的data讓大家都能夠互相有警示當時我就要求把家暴案列進去因為立定的協防最知道說我們這區裡面可能有已經有家暴案發生的家庭或者是潛在的高風險的家庭唯有透過各地治安會議一計一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
671.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
680.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所有的里长都在 领长也会参与的时候让他知道这一次 这一季我们北投区发生了几起家暴案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
682.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
704.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
大家就會啟動了那個預警的機制大家就會互相的通報互相的協力因為連治安會議也會有地方的這個像我們的關渡醫院啦我們的地區醫院也都一起來參與那是一個很好的場域針對鄰里民政系統、社政系統、衛政系統跟警政系統的協力 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
707.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
724.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在我那時候要求之後,台北市開始啟動了把家暴案類成為每一季的治安會議的追蹤、管考的項目而且要跟所有的社區參與者報告跟說明我不知道這樣的經驗在台灣有沒有被施行、被複製還是您認為我們可以來推動?還是已經上路了?因為台北市一定要齁,郝龍斌的時候是我催生的時候,那時候我早上起床走 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
732.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
756.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
後面柯文哲料就逃逃啊 沒照去趕走我不知道現在的狀況是什麼我認為這是一個全國可以來推動的委員這個提的部分是我們警察局都會在社區辦理這個社區治安座談會但有沒有列入交報案現在台北市有在實施那我們會通知其他的縣市也可以來你認為這樣是不是一個好的方式這就是社區協防社區協防讓社區了解他們的治安的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
759.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
780.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
過去人家說不要介入人家家務室但是現在是我們一起來當管家婆我們要繼續來雞婆為了社區的安寧為了我們所有的家庭家庭 大家好生活 大家安全大家做回來做管家婆 好不好所以我希望這是一個好的機制可以推行到全國 好不好大家加油 辛苦了 謝謝 |