| IVOD_ID |
163159 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163159 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-16T11:22:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-16T11:35:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c9429a73bae53e0d8e0936b23189b7f9598e56ead14a87f2c80b78dbb6162d2e25638440f1b511c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:22:08 - 11:35:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、內政部警政署署長、教育部、勞動部、內政部移民署率所屬相關單位列席就「保護令不是萬能的?!如何避免憾事再度發生。家庭暴力防治法保護令核發，研析配套措施之檢討與精進，並提供相關統計數據」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席那我們請這個司法院的副秘書長馬文副秘然後法務部的次長 衛福部的次長兩位次長 |
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24.229 |
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50.847 |
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今天我們談論這個主題那當然主要事發是 主因是在7月7號塗成這個不訓練這個事件那這件事情其實大家都知道那我現在想請問一下包括我們社法院法務部還有衛福部如果啦 如果有機會阻止悲劇的話現在你們來想當時候在做哪些的一些程序 哪些措施如果做下去的話有可能防止這個悲劇來發生 |
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我們先請那個副秘書長好不好 |
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85.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
跟委員那個報告就是有關於那個家暴那個防治呢他是一個全網絡的就是他連結各機關那就是說從一剛開始譬如說他合法保護令的時候他一定要有充分的那個資訊給那個法院所以呢就是說像那個警政機關他們那個家防官或者是說主管機關他們那個社工呢就是對於評估要很精準的去評估說這個個案他是不是屬於一個高風險的那個個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那也因此就是說他的這個其實現在都已經有相關的這一些那個評估的那個量表了就是說這些要非常那個精準的把這個風險因子把它給那個抓出來那像譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但是我覺得就這件來講當初是有哪些環節疏忽掉的在法院這部分我現在要連結講就是說像這一件進到法院來的時候事實上我們開庭所有的相關的措施就是保護措施什麼隔離之類的都做了那當時7月7號當天就是說被害人他離開的時候也有護送他社工有護送他坐計程車離開了那所以說其實在法院端這些該做的都做了那就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是我要提到一點就是連結到剛剛那個就是說他這一件當時事實上法院涉案的時候他的這個風險的那個評估量表事實上這上面所評估的那個風險那個分數事實上是不高的那這是由誰來寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這是由那個家防官家防官來寫的那家防官是比如說是這個被害人他的陳述嗎警政機關警政機關警政機關他來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
163.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那個受害者他的被害人他的陳述嗎那還是這一個警政機關他們怎麼樣去去做這件事情那次長要那個學次長要做個說明嗎還是警政署要做個說明這一個是警政署的警政署因為剛剛複密有提到這一塊因為我想說有哪些環節可以把它補起來的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
187.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
208.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我跟委員報告一下這個親密關係的這個危險評估表我們叫TIDA量表它有八項是要詢問被害人自己的感受那有五項是被害人自行陳述他是不是覺得有危險的狀況那它這個八項裡面呢都是很具體的譬如說對方是不是有曾經做出一些危險或動作傷害當初的被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
209.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
216.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在這個陳述裡面這個量表裡面所陳述出來的是很低的是很低的是很低的初期的時候是很低一直到7月2號因為他前幾天這個發生有這個槍隊人對他還有一些打電話騷擾他或者是有一些騷擾這個到他的工作場所去騷擾的動作他又重複再去報案的時候他自己的評估的這個危險程度就很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
237.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
260.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以那個時候我們就把他通報成是一個高風險的個案所以當時候有通報通報給社政系統那法院或是說檢察官那邊知道這個情況嗎如果在這個通報的階段是還沒有進入到法院或者是檢察官因為他這個案子在初期五月份受理的時候那這個斷層就在這邊有出現了一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
275.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不是因為他這個案子初期的時候已經有申請保護令在等待審核對 我是說後來當這個受害人他說這個已經你們也認為說他是屬於高風險了但是呢在法院端或是說檢察官那邊還沒有得到這個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
280.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
高危機的個案就是進入社政系統的評估跟我們在保護令執行的對 只有到社政系統而已但是還沒有到法院端還沒有到檢察官那邊到法院端就是我們依照它違反保護令罪的狀況我們再調查之後再搜最新的那個情況就是說剛開始被害人可能覺得說風險沒那麼高但是後來風險有提高了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
311.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那風險提高之後我要說的就是說除了社政單位知道之外然後在法院在檢察官那邊是哪時候那所以檢察官知道這個訊息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
321.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
346.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
沒有 這個案子到7月7號我們才拿到相關的資料對啊 那所以就是斷層就是在這邊嘛我這樣問啦 就是說大家都在這邊嘛那斷層就在這邊 就是當受害人他已經覺得說這一個他的先生 這個謝姓男子已經對他造成一些高風險的一些 有可能一些傷害的可能性那但是呢 在法院或是在檢察官這邊沒有得到這個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
347.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
359.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他只有通報到 社政系統所以我在想說這個 當你們知道這個訊息之後你們要怎麼樣通報目前是這條線是沒有那還是說有 但是你們沒有去做咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
361.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個部分因為它涉及到地檢署的管轄不同土城分局的這個案子我們第一階段已經處理了但是後來到工作場所去騷擾的時候是台北市所以我們台北市是報台北市的檢察官指揮那是在7月2號所以這個部分我們有通報但是這個地檢署的管轄不同那所以說你有通報給台北地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
388.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
405.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以這樣問起來這個就是一個問題了啊就是說當你們知道說這個風險增加的時候但是在檢察官或是在法院這邊並不知道這件事情我這樣聽起來是這樣子嘛那我再請教一下徐次長那這件事情呢你們有做過檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
424.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有 我想我們最主要是有兩點第一個就是我們剛才問的這些網絡的夥伴一定要建立高風險評估機制我們各部會資訊要及時能夠串接以提供給檢察官這件事情來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
425.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
453.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對就是事後檢討就是這樣就是說我們現在就是你們有這個狀況的話一定要趕快通報告把相關的資料每一次只要聯繫檢察官的時候一定要把所有的資料都附在裡面包括7月6號那一天有他毀損的時候你用違反保護令罪過來的時候你相關的評估報告跟所有的事證都要附在那一個案子裡面就現在沒有那時候當時是沒有沒有沒有附所以你們也不知道不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
454.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
481.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 那我請一下那個衛福部 我們市長那這件事情 因為你們前幾天也開過會嘛是 沒錯那對這件事情呢對 沒錯 確實就誠如剛剛許市長剛剛所說我們現在認為就是說確實這一整個我們當然是設政 可是裡面有包括警察還有包括這一 就是警察同仁還有檢察官這邊剛剛說的整個資料串接啦這個部分我覺得是我們事後檢討我們認為應該要趕快來補期的部分所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
484.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
504.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個斷層就發生了 訊息之間彼此沒有流通啊對 沒錯 沒錯 就高風險的這一個通報啦 通報的情況好 那我再請問一下 現在就是說按照資料來講 有這個發給保護令之後有八成的加害人沒有再有肢體的暴力但是還是有兩層 還是有兩層 那這兩層的話你們要怎麼樣去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
507.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
處理就是說能夠讓已經合法保護令之後我們還是希望說加害人的這些肢體暴力的行為能夠降到最低其實剛剛有提到就是說第61條其實我們現在目前是說三年以下其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
524.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
545.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當天其實也有這一個 也有委員建議其實這個刑責 就是嚇阻的部分 或許可以再來提高因為我們現在三年 可能提高到譬如說 就是說一定的這一個年度不過這個當然是牽涉到整個修法的那個過程還有另外一個就是說有提到說這一個違反這個家暴法對 沒錯 它的整個是一個嚇阻的這一個那刑事訴訟法這方面咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
550.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
564.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個部分不是衛福部的權責 這個我們就尊重法務司法院這邊的一個權責那我再請問一下 家暴法第31條有所謂的預防性的羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
565.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
581.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我們預防性的羈押是不是大家覺得說因為沒有足夠的一些證據或是怎麼樣所以很少去用到這一條預防性羈押這部分我是不是請那個複密處長或是徐市長你們都回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
583.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
595.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我跟委員報告 預防性羈押的話當然就是一個防止這個進一步的危害發生但是它有一個要件就要重複反覆實施的要件所以這個案子是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
597.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
618.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
他的現存的資料是沒有這樣不符合但是關於這個31條預防性羈押你們這一個使用這一條的機會大嗎因為我看說檢察官申請羈押混准大概100多件而已113年總共違反保護令罪是6048人那預防性羈押153人偏低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
622.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
634.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個有要件的我知道有要件啦我意思是說是不是因為他的要件就像市長所講的要一個反覆實施要有危險有危險那還是很慎重的可是因為這個個案大家又開始要討論說這個所謂預防性羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
639.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
652.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
的真的實施上這一條雖然法有定但是好像實際上能夠用到這一條的機會不多所以我們就是要補那一塊所謂的反覆實施有利己為再犯其的風險所以我們才會是說欸這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
654.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
676.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
高風險評估要隨著案件要進來檢察官才能夠判斷說是不是符合這個預防性羈押這個很重要好那我最後再問好因為時間要到主席站起來了那問一下副秘書長我們加法保第31條這個我們有所謂的刑事保護令那刑事保護令的這個合法的比例是不是也是偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
678.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
705.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不是說在這一件 因為他這一件 譬如說他問完之後發現說他這個沒有羈押的必要但是呢 那至少我們可以這個包含31條的第一款到第五款都有一些條件可以要求這一個我們的被告要去遵守那像這個案件也沒有嘛 那我的意思是說我們是不是可以為了增加嚇阻力來提高這個刑事這個保護令的合法的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
706.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
724.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
報告委員 這個案件中他的那個羈押是他沒有向法院那個申請羈押所以說法院當然也無從就是會去下這些相關的這些那個保護鏈那過去咧 就是說這個合法刑事保護鏈的比例咧來來 那一個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
730.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
750.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們在偵查中發這種刑事保護令目前大概是六成因為我看一下你們這個數字這應該是大概五成五成五到六成左右啦但是就是說這個預知的比率六成然後按照這個下面是哪些款項 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
752.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
769.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
比如說第一款到第五款啊大概的是有哪一些範圍通常是第二款一二款都有可能那個是比較立即的那個危險那我是希望啦就是說剛剛看也發生說有一些斷層 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
770.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
787.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那剛才就是說第31條這個預防性羈押的這部分我是希望說藉由這個個案我們再去討論你們怎麼樣把這個反覆實施然後具有這個傷害性這邊把它這個不論是更明確化一點點或是說看怎麼樣去做一個說明跟解釋讓這一條有實際上應用的一個機會啦我們會加強宣導跟訓練好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |