| IVOD_ID |
163144 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163144 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-16T10:08:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-16T10:24:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c9429a73bae53e0a286e5e0ba497eb21b1d72feb9295bd21403755ec74c72013f3c00194d6c03235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱鎮軍 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:08:48 - 10:24:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 我們請我們彭部長還有我們經濟部能源署李代理署長邱委員早部長好 還有署長好我手上有三份資料一份是經濟部給的專案報告一份是環境部的然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
59.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
一份是這個環境部提供的專案報告還有一份是環境部提供給本席的那這三個文件明明在講同一件事情但是內容卻自相矛盾版本不太一致那今天如果不是召委排審你們是不是就各說各話然後互踢皮球那現在喬出一個統一的說法我覺得是怕真相穿幫還是怕責任被看清 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我坦白說啦我認為環境循環署提供的資料才是最接近真實的狀況你們的專案報告都是經過層層修飾擦脂抹粉之後才送出來都是處理中已安排持續協調這些模糊語言真正的困難真正的責任歸屬全部都不見了那今天不是我們委員要求這個資料我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們是不是連回收費未繳10年無法補助這件事情都不打算給外界知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那我在看經濟部的報告當中在光電板災損後由政府簽約處理負責清理但你們經濟環境部循環署回覆本席所知的資料卻說這是災損模組回收費都還沒滿10年不符合補貼資格所以經濟部要請這個業者自行處理這個請廠商來清理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
包委員就我所知喔第一個是例如說他因為這個1k瓦要1000塊嘛那他分10年齁那等於是一年100塊嘛那如果4年壞了他等於是清除掉他還是要把這個10年的要先繳清然後新的還要再繳1000塊所以還是要照這樣一個制度來說明這個要不要請董事長回答是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
以目前的規定那每k瓦太陽光電在設置的時候他就要繳一千元的基金進來這個到這個能源基金裡面然後環保署依他使用的狀況再由來申請由能源基金撥補環保署所以他現在太陽光電設置的時候事實上他就要繳這個回收處理的基金了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
167.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
對 模組回收費是專款專用嘛是那就是要拿來處理災損還是太易的光電模組這是怎麼用就是只要它損害不再使用的那就要再處理因為它有那這是我的資料是這樣子環境部今年只向你們申請了兩百萬對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這筆錢最多只能處理153噸正常淘汰的模組啊完全沒有編列任何災損處理的身份因為我們太陽光電推行到現在它經濟受領是20年20年以後會有大批的汰換所以這筆錢只是為了也就是說它只是為了要當20年期滿之後要汰換的這個費用就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
正常我們說20年時間到了 壽命到了 它會有大量出現但是中間陸續它有破損的 它一樣是要處理掉也就是說它一腳把那我問你啦 那目前總共損壞14萬5千片中央高達2800公噸嘛那這2800公噸的廢光電板到底要怎麼清 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個業者目前我們分成兩部分目前在道路外面的目前我們先請業者就廠區以外的要清理完畢那另外他有廠區內有損害的廠區內有損害的那目前他會陸陸續續天氣好了之後他會有大型機具的進入然後還有一些電器人員要拆解因為太陽光電會發電這個誰要做業者自己要做你們誰追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們會追蹤我們每一個案場他會先佔置在他自己的廠區裡面然後他會去做拆解分類之後他現在不是找不到地方放嗎他放在自己的廠區裡面等一下再講那我再問你更具體一點那這次災損涉及的14個案場有哪一家業者是繳滿10年模組回收的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個是他在申請設置的時候就要繳了對 有繳滿啊 他一次繳滿嗎對他一次繳滿10年目前我們有修正所以你這個問題就現在問題點就在這裡啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
295.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他繳了十年嗎 也不是嘛 他是每年在繳嘛那你認為他現在繳的錢就現在他已繳的錢能夠有足夠的能力來處理今天這種狀況嗎他還是要自己處理 他一定沒有辦法嘛你們會補嗎 不會嘛 不會補嘛所以這筆錢跟這筆錢根本就沒有關係嘛他要自己處理 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我問你啊你有跟他講啊108年才開始繳嘛現在才6年啊是對不對那根本沒有任何案場繳滿10年那照你們這個制度那全台99%以上的這個光電廠都不符合這個補助清運的門檻嘛對不對所以他們是要自行處理他要自行處理那我問你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我覺得你這個這一套制度非常奇怪啊回收專款專用是要怎麼用啊就是等到20年後才來用沒有就是陸續它有損壞的時候就拿這筆錢來處理它你不是10年內補那個嗎因為這是一個舖喔這是大家一起繳進來沒有達10年沒有辦法補助嗎那今天3年2年5年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
370.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
像現在六年呢業者要自己出啊他要自己處理啊他不用申請就自己處理他自己要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
399.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個錢不是業者來申請是業者要負責處理然後他可以申請補助他會跟環保署申請補助環保署的因為這個錢是在再生能源發展基金裡面的所以環保署就把它處理花了多少錢來跟這個再生能源基金來申請那我們就會編給環保署部長我請問你你是氣象專家我請教你一個問題在你的印象裡台灣一年曾經 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
402.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
會經歷幾個颱風一年大概三到四個三到四個嘛所以是年年都有高風險現實我們大家都知道那我請你問經濟部你們明知道台灣每年有這麼多颱風為什麼設計一套這個模組回收制度讓太陽光電業者分十年來繳繳不滿十年政府就不用就完全不用負責任來清運作業嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個分十年是我們經濟部訂的你們是幫財團在幫忙在做切割嗎沒有因為當時就是說讓他能夠分期繳交光電業者可以先裝先發電先賺錢回收費都不用先繳因為我們政府跟這個光電業者不就合作五間不會正常的就是說是大家一起發財是嗎颱風這樣的損害事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所謂十年是他二十年經濟受領他要在十年收取完畢但是他每一年還是要繳出十分之一來那這十分之一可以因應他因為颱風的災損你這個當時沒有計算進去嘛今天如果這個廠商他今天沒有能力處理怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
倒啦 他不會 他低一點就會 他低一點設置就要找錢進來要找誰要 錢要找誰要廠商啊他就倒了 你要找去哪裡找我們還是可以追究他的責任的如果他沒能力處理咧那這筆錢又要誰處理這是另外一件事 但是就是說這個責任還是在他的身上他要處理完畢 那我們會追究他的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
494.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我是覺得啦如果全責都丟給業者那你們設立這個模組回收這個制度還是需要調整啦因為你不知道台灣的天災什麼時候來它一年會面臨幾次這個部分呢如果是以現在的機制來算的話我擔心我們現在的業者他沒有能力處理沒有能力處理的時候到時候還是丟給政府來處理就是一個爛攤子啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不會 我們看現在的業者其實他這個繳的錢是可以處理他自己受災的剛剛講了 你說他們堆製 我有看到一個新聞我們嘉義縣政府還在幫忙找 積極找地方來給他們堆製他們自己哪有地方堆啊他自己要堆在自己的暗場裡面為什麼政府還要幫忙出面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
561.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
如果照你這樣講的話為什麼這麼多天還沒處理我們就是分成兩部分就是廠區外的跟廠區內的那廠區外的因為要緊急處理所以我們也謝謝縣政府能夠幫忙找到一個適當的地方那廠區內的廠區外的話那要算誰的廠區外還是這個業者要負責那只有一家業者嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
566.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
知道 知道 我們每一片太陽能板你看這有十幾萬片 每一片都有編號如果有編號 它會吹到那邊都散啦你怎麼知道它編號幾號它是打在那個模組上的我們每一個模組 每一片模組都要經過檢驗你的意思是它不會不見就對了它找得到這一片模組的主人是誰因為它那個號碼是打在它的那個太陽能板上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後根據我們辦公室向經濟部索取的資料截至7月10日丹納斯颱風造成加以5案台南9案 共14個光電暗場的災損總裝置容量損失高達32.1mW |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
612.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
然後廢光電模組總量約大概2800公噸那你們強調這次災損的容量是32.62N瓦啦那依照全國平均每千瓦的每年發電度1250度來換算每天損失大概11.2萬度電嘛只佔今年這個每年平均的發電量6.88億度的萬分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
639.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你們把一場重大的這個災難啊硬要放進全國發電量裡去稀釋處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
645.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
671.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
然後用全國每日6.88度來沖淡地方一天損失11萬度這就是典型的這個政治初學拿整體平均掩蓋區域災難拿數字說話掩蓋治理的失能結果是什麼台風把光電板掃壞2800多公噸的這個破裂的板子還在現場那政府疲於奔命的在找空地清理對方而你們卻好意思說這個損失鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
674.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
695.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
電量只有五萬分之一我想請問 你們在講這種話看到那些冒著風雨搶修每一度電的台電員工他們作何感想看著受災戶受影響的漁民 基層公務員的眼裡面他們會覺得你們在安慰人民還是在羞辱人民的智商我們先看一下這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
709.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這張是嘉義新溫案場的照片你們環境報告的報告裡面說這個案場災後已經清理完成但我們看到為什麼五萬片的破裂光電還在堆在現場根本沒地方放 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
711.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
739.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
為什麼?包委員這個他們我所知道掌握到昨天他們才跟業者在簽約清除業者在簽約後面的業者在簽約是發生這麼多天了嗎?你們一開始就沒有一個機制沒有包委員因為他們這個齁這個都有保險啦那這個要等保險公司來查驗就像我們車子撞事故之後保險公司一定要來查驗才能夠進到後面的理賠的程序所以他們要等那個完了之後再做所以我們是基本上我們限期預計什麼時候可以清理完? |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
742.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
756.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為我有問了清除業者所以如果他們簽完約之後幾天內就可以清除完畢但是我們其實這個量實在太大所以我們其實我就講這一場就好了它的5萬片模組就重達965公噸那光這一案處理費就大概1200萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
761.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
787.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那麼我們如果業者不依法處理我們就開罰對不對我們會開罰開罰300萬我們現在是這個因為大家都是受災戶啦我們是這個這個等於是跟我們一般的災民是一樣來看待就是希望說他趕快清理我們給他一點點時間如果他沒有清理完成我們會開罰就開罰300萬嘛我們沒有那麼多大概廢清罰大概是6萬嘛先6萬開始只有6萬是6萬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
790.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
最高300萬對啊最高300萬你們會不會最輕的就是你現在講的意思是要用最輕的來處理他先開始因為基本上這個都是他要1200萬他要處理他如果拿不出錢他當然情願讓你罰啊包委員他都有保險啦他都有保險保險賠多少這個我不清楚對啊你怎麼說保險他會賠咧基本上他們現在就進到那個程序當中啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
814.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
836.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那基本上這個公司我這樣講啦這個東西我還是要跟你們提醒的就是說這些都是問題那我希望說你們任何的狀況你們都要設想清楚啦不要讓業者這個鑽漏洞當然也不要讓業者搞到沒辦法處理然後讓我們這個政府部門來擦屁股好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
837.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
849.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那最後一個問題我再問一下這個再生能源發展基金那114年6月底我們再生能源發展基金的會計報表帳面餘額有36億點6371萬元我想請問這裡面有多少錢是來自你們從108年開始像光電業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
859.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
877.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
按每千瓦一千元的收取這個模組回收費也就是你們一直講的專款專用這一個部分是目前太陽光電這邊由這個業者繳交的大概有八億左右只有八億嗎是那為什麼我們都看不到呢你給我的資料為什麼看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
878.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
895.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們可以特別把它分出來沒有問題它是裡面有很多不同的細項對啊因為你們給我們的資料寫得非常粗糙所以我們沒有看到這一筆預算所以我跟你講你們有沒有每年公開揭露這個模組回收費已經累積多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
897.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
912.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
沒有特別對模積動資的多少還有多少在帳上我想我們所要看到都是一個整體基金的總額數字完全看不到這筆專款到底有沒有好好被管理被使用還是說這一大筆錢就進入大水庫隨便用高興怎麼用怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
914.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
939.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這部分是專款專用因為目前以你們這樣每千瓦收1000元的標準理論上就是應該是累積當然啦我是講10年啦應該會有140億那當然你分10年角但如果說從108年開始到現在來說也有已經6年啦對不對6年來他應該有上百億的收入啦這個制度是從110年開始收取的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
941.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
960.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
早期的太陽光電是沒有這個制度但是後來越來越多以後才有這個制度所以我希望你們把這個數字把這個正確的數字然後一年回收多少錢然後花了多少錢大概我希望你們列清楚再給我們資料好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝邱委員 |