| IVOD_ID |
163135 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163135 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-16T09:21:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-16T09:34:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c9429a73bae53e03c48d63ab1abece11b1d72feb9295bd27a32670b893c2468bb206ea06e1c8f725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:21:44 - 09:34:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長有請郭智慧部長好 暫時不打 缺席下一個有請賴次長好 賴次長走 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那市長請教這個面對今天這麼重要的議題要詢答郭居輝部長無故請假請問他是不是藐視國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
61.353 |
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報告委員並沒有因為昨天台電的員工因為感電發生了意外剛剛主席有說明他現在的身體的狀況非常的危急所以我們部長現在就堅持趕到現場部長有能力搶救是不是部長可以到醫院去搶救是不是這麼重要的議題經濟部惹出來的禍 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.119 |
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報告委員對於國人的生命跟生活台電董事長他去關心員工是應該的我們對員工包括我自己我們要給予深深的祈福跟感謝包括現在正在搶救的消防員包括當然所有參與搶救的中油跟台電的員工但是我想請教你他現在在裝葉克模台灣第一葉克模專家是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.977 |
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不是柯文哲嗎?放他出去搶救是不是更有用?是不是有機會救回人命呢?曾文森行嗎?郭紀輝行嗎?我們也感謝衛福部,包括剛剛主席也有提到我們希望透過我們現在的醫學的量能來針對台電員工及於搶救我們回到今天的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
122.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
上星期經濟部宣稱離岸光碟這個浮台是屬於實驗計畫都是為了要測試這個光電浮台的系統在海上的耐受性結果經濟部的澄清報告漏洞百出很快被抓包不僅僅是跟畜動業者他所聲稱的還有部分的這個光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
沒有移除的說法不一樣那關鍵板的移除情形也跟屏東縣政府講的狀況不一樣那我想人民有全知道真相請問市長到底現在移除的情況是什麼真相是什麼如果這個連經濟部都沒辦法講清楚呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
167.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他不是只是抗風浪測試嗎那抗風浪測試如果只放浮板只放浮板沒有放這個光電板測試什麼呢他在測試浮板嗎還是測試光電板的浮板呢好謝謝指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們這個測試的計畫確實在颱風來臨之前所有的光電板已經已移除那我們在媒體上面看到的這些各式各樣的說法 包括屏東縣政府 業者自己我們有多次的來發表相關的這個訊息讓民眾的知道那事實上這種所謂的海面型太陽能光電它的測試的部分有包括它的載具 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
面對風浪 抗風浪的這個情形那這次丹納斯颱風從你的答案就說全部撤除了是不是那我問你海底有清除嗎你海底有去追查嗎有沒有遭到海底的我們這個部分要再仔細的再密切的清查你怎麼能說全部撤除乾淨了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
234.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那颱風天警報它啟動的這個SOP按照機制應該撤除哪些部分應該撤除哪些 你有SOP吧 有沒有SOP丹娜斯7月6號晚上11點40分登錄之前我們在前一天經濟部透過請告訴我 直接告訴我要撤除根據這個SOP颱風天啟動的要撤除哪些這個裝置 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所有的不管是太陽能光電或是離岸性的風電他必須要做一些固定的作業海底我們還不知道發生什麼事情好那這個我想講說離岸這個福臺它不是實驗你說是實驗這不是實驗遊戲場經濟部不應該用官方的帳號去幫光電業者背書這是完全錯誤的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
261.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
275.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
絕對沒有這個事情我們面對於我們綠能的發展一向秉持公開透明你說他們全部移除他自己都說沒有移除啊我們不希望有任何貪圖的情形發生市長上週一本辦公室有發函索取這個旭東他辦理這個離岸太陽光電系統的福台的這個開發研究計畫那你們本來承諾說最晚11號要給我我是7月7號發公文的現在幾號了請問為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
到現在我還收不到 你的計劃書呢這段期間我們一直在救災那能源署也一直在調配當地的儲冷跟發電所以沒有辦法調出計劃書嗎 是這樣嗎容委員讓我說明一下委員所需要索取跟其他委員所需要索取的資料我們當天同仁跟委員的這個辦公室都會有一些聯絡那至於委員的這個部分其他的委員我知道我有看過能源署已經有把資料送出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我只要這個續動開發技術開發研究案的計畫書你們核准的計畫書我只要這個部分今天可以給我嗎今天這個東西都啟動計畫書之前程序都完成才會啟動研究機構大家都懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
349.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那你要留下來修改資料嗎跟委員說明我們對於公眾利益的關心跟民眾權益的關心同等重要我們認為依照資訊公開法的這個部分我們希望有相關的法規等等等等資訊公開法這個是用公帑的涉及公共重大利益難道你要把這個資訊揭露的這個主導權交給廠商嗎你還要問這個綠油油嗎你還要問旭東嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
361.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他同意才行嗎他內部有一些他自己的公司的營運的基本的一個訊息那這個部分依照資訊公開法的部分我們必須要去依法執行市長你這個理由我們聽你的花我們的錢現在傷害了人民的性命家產你現在還告訴我說你的計畫是沒有辦法讓我看根本說明我們對所有的計畫無論在查核在督導甚至是針對保證的部分你該蓋的該塗黑的都塗黑你下午可以給我這個資料嗎你下午可以給嗎這個部分我們必須要依照資訊公開法的程序來處理7月7號我就發函了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你自信公安法要處理多久你要私下修改東西嗎你不得不讓我們這樣懷疑啊當然不可能我們會去做這種的行為那針對於你什麼時候可以給我呢我這個要求的過分嗎我們要看計畫書啊造成這麼大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.635 |
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422.164 |
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在合法合規的這個情況之下然後予以落實用公帑涉及公共利益的東西你們把資訊揭露權的主導權決定權交給廠商並沒有這回事這個案子在實施之前也有公開的聽證麻煩你稍後一下那個麻煩彭部長 |
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424.895 |
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428.239 |
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董事長您一定聽實際有些2023年荷蘭有一家水利研究機構他報告指出當然你剛好做一些報告不過這是人家的研究報告損壞的太陽能板可能會將有毒物質跟重金屬釋入這個帶入這個海洋環境那太陽能的電磁板滲漏的這個一個 |
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442.938 |
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447.322 |
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風險跟影響取決於他所用的材料就是離岸這個光電的浮板他所決定他會決定曝露的一個表面積例如這個鍍鋅鋼的或某些房屋塗層可能會讓鋅、鎳隔等這個都凍金屬滲入水中那這些物質已經知道是會影響海洋生物的他不是只有對人的生命海洋生物所以也就是環境部一開始說的如果太陽能板 |
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469.602 |
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480.21 |
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含有重金屬這個物質會有污染的風險請教部長您是否有掌握這次戴拉斯颱風所造成的整組的光電模組雖然你剛剛說結構材料成分的掌握是否有事先重金屬釋出的風險評估我想請問你一整套的光電模組從太陽能板浮動平台 錨到接線箱 潛水電纜完全沒有污染的可能性嗎完全沒有嗎 |
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499.79 |
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514.934 |
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包括如果說長期的話我認為是可能還是會逐漸的釋出出來因為例如說我到現場去看破碎的那個實際上的那個半導體的這個模組在上面其實如果他是用銅銅線背後包括的銀 |
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515.615 |
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533.176 |
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你們曾經有講過說你們主流的太陽能板中玻璃佔了74%以為是相對安全但是請問你所謂主流的太陽能板全台灣用的百分比多少就那一塊嗎全台灣主流你認為相對是安全的東西那整個台灣用的比例是多少才叫主流 |
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533.656 |
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544.403 |
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基本上大多數就是幾乎是這個樣子都是一模一樣的樣子因為那個基本上全世界大概都是這個樣子那當然這個研究我們也在搜集當中有超過40%嗎還是都是雜質有40%用這個你所謂的主流太陽能板嗎 |
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552.18 |
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567.101 |
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基本上這個太陽能板都是一樣的一個規格啦好我再了解一下這個資料那民進黨執政以來把相當多的資源放在投入光電並且將綠能視為引以為傲的一個政績但現在出事誰來負責請問彭部長我想知道現在暗場的 |
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567.782 |
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591.797 |
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這個副廠 廠副的進度如何不然你有沒有去看左邊 左下圖這張圖這個是嘉義 你看到 嘉義新聞光電廠案帳號像周的模樣喔 那個颱風都過了好幾天喔但水上的光電廠還是一團亂請問這是哪一家業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上這種說法都有啊那我看請問部長或市長誰能夠回答我這是誰家的這是誰家 哪一家業者的 |
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595.18 |
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609.626 |
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這個其實昨天我有特別派我的署長到現場探勘其實這個照片是剛開始發生的其實現在已經有顯著的一個清楚了但是還是有堆置您有回答我是哪個業者是雲報能源還是台達電因為網路上是這樣說的我們有權利知道是誰的這個要請經濟部您不知道嗎 沒有掌握嗎 |
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618.549 |
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645.432 |
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還是不能講 跟委員說明新聞的這個損害的這個狀況我們因為這期先搭配 要優先附電所以我們在163線的這個部分搭配附電然後優先搶修那除此之外的話 這一些的破壞的模板都已經集中收集起來重建的錢誰來付這個預算的來源是誰提供 |
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647.014 |
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665.188 |
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永興這家公司是永興公司我想我想再請問等一下你他的cover的範圍有多少你以為這3%的這個受損受傷的官員沒有0.4%跟委員說明整個重建的過程要花多少錢這個要看整個整體的蒐集之後再來進行 |
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666.869 |
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671.611 |
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那我們全國大概有33個案場受到程度不一的損害那整體的損害率只佔我們所有的裝置的比率0.4%好 彭部長我想請教彭部長這件事經濟部他是目的事業主管機關那是不是應該讓水上光電做一次完整的政策環評呢您過去的立場是政策環評 |
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692.421 |
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716.322 |
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我們是希望能源署可以來做啦我們也跟他們在磋商當中賴市長不好意思我還沒請你回座那你支持這個政策環評嗎縫電廠現在出事了你說如果是測試如果是測試那就是不合格嘛失敗嘛你這個號稱是花了1億多的一個費用這個研究計畫花了1億多你號稱可以用20年啊現在是證明不堪一擊啊 |
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719.525 |
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725.63 |
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首先跟委員說明旭東的案子它是一個試驗的計畫那整體的太安能的這個光電達到需要環評的這個標準我們都有實施環評那除此之外的話我們在這個月 |
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737.011 |
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759.518 |
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我們也在跟社會各利害關係人在溝通不管是在我們的環境部已經說要做環境部的職責提出來的意見我們都逐一的做一個相貴的一個答覆那至於營運中的這個案場的部分即便颱風清洗了布袋地區當天他其實他的發電量跟颱風錢還是相當的我們要有一個瞭解 |
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764.279 |
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789.091 |
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責任的歸屬費用的使用一次試驗的失敗那是業者自行負擔的政府不會去負擔這個部分那後續的清理的部分也是責任的部分也是業者的一個責任你掉到哪裡去了東西到底散播到什麼程度長期的影響是什麼這個我們會跟屏東縣政府跟海委會你要做的把關的部分嗎還是 |
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790.626 |
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792.594 |
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好 那我今天就到這裡 謝謝主席謝謝兩位 謝謝委員 謝謝部長 |