| IVOD_ID |
163051 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163051 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-10T15:55:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-10T16:16:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2bb0d0af414fb2098a69709d4c31a9e9cb5545a92025017dfc5522444ca3f0ff058d39ead7a38cca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:55:16 - 16:16:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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主席有請正被提名人麻煩再請被提名人正法官請上台說明 |
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好 正被提名人您好我今天要跟您請教就是關於維護憲法法庭運作以及三級三審制度和大法庭制度是否比照國民法官制度定期檢討首先請教一下您有看了昨天政府院長被提名人在這裡接受審查質詢的情況嗎有昨天有看嗎那麼上週我們的有一個公聽會 |
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68.305 |
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91.25 |
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也有各黨的代表和學者專家就大法官的同意權審查表示意見您有參酌嗎?有在當中我特別強調大法官的這個審查不可以淪為對大法官的思想審判您同意嗎?是可是就在昨天我們看到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
115.986 |
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院長被提名人接受在野黨的質詢的時候出現了連番累次的詢問詢問被提名人說你支持廢死嗎你認為對於被提名人在審查的時候詢問是否立場支持廢死可否成為在同意大法官提名的一個交換條件您的看法怎麼樣我覺得應該是說 |
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118.274 |
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142.866 |
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被提名人個人的主觀想法其實都不會影響他對憲法解釋的客觀性很好表示在野黨他輪番的就他們的政治立場反對Face而要求被提名人表達他們對Face的立場另外也有在野黨委員要求被提名人就目前的憲法爭議要進行憲法訴訟像 |
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147.711 |
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到底立法委員提議增加原住民族的不管是金髮補償或是老農津貼這樣的侵犯預算權的方式是否有違憲有委員提出來詢問院長被提名人你覺得被提名人可以就這個問題進行答覆嗎這個應該是很難因為違憲不違憲不是被提名人說了算 |
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177.406 |
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191.992 |
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所以說你認為憲法裁判是根據憲法價值還是大法官的主觀想法這個我大概在書面也有提過我認為憲法解釋對就是這個就是你要不要念一遍讓大家聽一下 |
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193.063 |
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193.243 |
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是的,所以 |
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215.339 |
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231.968 |
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您在您自己的書面說明未來身為大法官所應為的行為準則但是仍然今天不少委員在黨委員詢問你對特定案件未來如果成為大法官你的審理的傾向您覺得可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
234.213 |
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256.169 |
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像那個立法院代表民意他對於大法官提名人提出一些期許這個是難免的但是這個都不會影響到審判獨立很好所以接下來我要請教一下你非常熟能的領域我所知道你在台北地方法院多次曾經當過刑庭的法官民庭的庭長好了這個案件呢是在去年看了新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
282.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
有一個六歲的女童繼承了他另外一個生父的實際遺產一千五百萬但他生父的既有配偶跟他生父跟他配偶的子女因為過去受贈三億的股票但是呢他拋棄了繼承結果稅務機關以他總遺產是三點二億要求這個唯一的繼承的女童要繳納五千萬的遺產稅這個案件您有瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
284.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
311.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有看過那麼這個案件後來是不是進行了憲判113憲判11號其他繼承人負擔擬置遺產稅是違憲的他說到立法的目的是為了租稅公平但是不能絞殺性租稅第二受證配偶是繼承人因依比例剋稅第三受證配偶不是繼承人其他繼承人不負擔增加的稅額這已經是繼承的憲判你對這樣憲判的內容比照原來的案例您的看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
312.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
326.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想他這個憲判是從平等權的原則去檢視這個法條的規定也就是這個六歲的女童他其實並不是受贈與的人可是他變成其他人拋棄繼承之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
350.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他變成要去負擔這個遺產稅反而超過了他繼承的遺產確實是不公平的而且就是針對這個負擔能力相同而作差別待遇的這個平等權的解釋我覺得這個現判11號的那個內容應該是值得你作為一個民庭的庭長所肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
351.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
379.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以看起來憲法法庭你看就這個個案來講如果照現行的稅務事件救濟流程他會在課稅處分之後由於當事人進行行政訴訟復查訴願形成不斷的循環萬年稅單無法得到救濟但是經過了違憲審查透過這樣的一個終局判決的提出釋憲確定派出之後他申請違憲審查廢棄判決宣告法律違憲立即失效限期修法是不是這是人民權利的另外一種救濟是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
381.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
407.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是的好那我再請教一下那麼現在呢有人主張說大法官啊不應該去陷入政爭成為執政黨跟在野黨的一個仲裁者您對於這樣的訴求認為大法官過去在憲法法庭的審理介入了在野跟執政的政爭你的看法如何我想這個部分大概應該還是要講說就是依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
409.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
423.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
法律的規定來裁判大法官針對那個權利分立最高就是各個國家機關之間的權限就是糾紛如果有申請的話他還是要依法裁判 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
442.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那我們看一下實際的案例其實從2011年到2022年我們看到了其實不管是舊制的大審法還是新制的憲法訴訟法其實違憲審查憲法訴訟其實包含國會所申請的比例佔了極低透過法院判決過程有法院提出的佔了兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
442.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
458.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
而高達七成五四分之三是由人民因為受到他認為不法侵犯他權益的判決而申請訴訟憲法訴訟而得到憲判的救濟你覺得這麼說起來是不是憲法法庭最重要的保護的是人民的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我想憲法法庭受理的絕大部分的案子是人民申請關於基本權利侵害的這個憲法解釋這個是事實好那麼這樣說來憲法法庭的運作就是因為憲法是人民權利的保障書那麼對於憲法忠誠就是對人民的權利忠誠你認為釋字第632號當中說的所謂的憲法忠誠就是憲法機關發揮其應有的憲政功能不能因人事的更衣而有一日中斷及時產生繼任人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
515.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你覺得過去憲法法庭在憲訴法遭到立法院惡修之後是否在野黨惡修憲訴法的確也造成了對憲法運作的一個損害您的看法呢我只能說憲法法庭目前沒有辦法運作確實會造成申請人他的一個權利確定的延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
516.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以蓄意讓憲法法庭停擺是違反了憲法忠誠原則也違反了憲法作為人民權利保障書這樣一個重要的保障而侵犯了進一步 侵犯了人民的權利好 那我們繼續來看好 那麼今天提到的一個稅務行政事件審理法草案您對這個草案有所關注嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個我知道但是我並不是很明確了解內容因為這個跟我的專業有一點點距離是的沒有錯這是本席去年在司法委員會我們審理到要解決萬年稅單的問題認為法院自行推計課稅不再由機關核定同時機關作為新主婚不得再次的訴願這樣的一個進步的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
您覺得它是源自於什麼樣的緣起跟之前的憲判我們看到的113憲判11號是不是促成了這樣的一個新法的制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
572.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
596.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我想這個法律大概應該主要還是要貫徹依法公平科稅跟正當程序救濟的這個原則那我們再來談談遠一點的4至748號它裡面提到的對於婚姻平權的問題憲法要求有關機關因本與本憲法公布之日期兩年內依本解釋意旨完成相關法律之修正或制定請問這裡的有關機關包括哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
624.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有關機關就是需要去制定法律的權限機關那就是可能是立法院或者是行政院後來行政院送出了我們的4至78號實行法立法院也通過了所以可不可以這樣說,憲判的結果包含行政機關包括立法機關因依循憲判的意旨對於法律制度進行必要的修補 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
648.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
憲法的解釋它是有拘束各機關跟人民的效力是的所以我剛剛說的就是說其實憲判的結果不僅保障人民的權利憲判的效力也給予相關機關尤其是立法機關必須針對大法官或憲法法庭對於現行的法制度的不完美它的缺陷我們進行補救這您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
652.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
678.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是憲法解釋或者是憲判的那個意旨如果是這樣說應該是有拘束力的那我來看一看你應該很熟悉的這個憲判13年憲判八字號它是說關於科除死刑的問題它說有關機關應於本判決宣誓之日期兩年內依本判決意旨修關相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
680.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
707.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那剛剛的這樣的說明那麼相關機關是不是包括司法院或者是立法院1.13憲判對於死刑的憲判解釋有關機關應該就是有立法權限的機關那是不是包括刑事訴訟法是法務部法院組織法是司法院監獄刑刑法也是司法機關是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
737.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
就是依照那個憲判的意思憲判的意思 好但是這裡面是不是包括了法院組織法法院組織法應該對於死刑的判決為一致決應該透過法院組織法來修訂但你知道嗎立法院前不久才完成了三讀的法院組織法有修改這一條嗎目前沒有沒有看到但是你知道修改了哪一條嗎修改了法庭審判要直播啊您對於法庭直播結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
739.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
765.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
贊成支持本案的國民黨立委包括曾振堅委員他的個人的案子他在之前受理的時候他要求不公開審理您覺得當庭的法官就報載說你們不是支持法院直播嗎為什麼你的案件要不採公開審理呢您覺得這個案子您的評論是什麼這個當事人的要求法院要不要准許這個都個案判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
767.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
782.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以說我們來看一下齁其實呢我剛剛講了兩件事情齁就是一個兩個憲判一個呢行政院提出立法院訂了四字七四八號施行法來完成我們大法官憲判的意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
783.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
811.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是另外一個憲法的意旨要求死刑一致決必須修改法院組織法但是居國會多數的災藏卻悍然的拒絕沒有照你剛剛說的有關機關必須遵照憲法的意旨去進行修法反而修出了一個法庭直播的法院組織法我個人是相當遺憾那接下來再跟你請教的一個就是一個你應該相當熟悉的就是111年最高法院108年抗大治第897號民事裁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
812.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
828.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
您在您的這裡面也說明了這是一個關於地方法院民事執行處有關於人壽保險契約解約的執行想請教一下你在這個案子上您的立場跟見解我的立場應該就已經在那個螢幕上你要不要簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
831.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
850.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你提出的是不同意見書我初步是認為就是有幾個理由第一個是債權的平等性也就是債權是平等的所以欠債需要債務人還錢可是能不能去介入債務人跟第三人的契約關係我覺得這個要有法律的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
851.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
864.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以在當時的這個大法庭的裁定,您是相對不同意見的,是不是這樣?是那你也為什麼你會覺得不同意見?你說您看到了後來地方法院民事執行處的湧射似乎您有預見了這個樣的解釋會造成後續的這樣的結果,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
869.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
892.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那個時候另外一個考量點就是執行是一個非送信職他是要迅速可是這個大法庭的多數意見他當然有給就是給執行處一些裁量就是必要時可是這種必要時對於司法事務官來講就是一個很難處理的問題也會造成那個具體標準的不一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
893.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
921.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
而且財囊就會造成時間的延宕案件的激壓所以說你本人你從司法體系的基層做起你知道在我們地方法院的辛勞所以本席我們看一下在本席去年擔任司法法治委員會召委的時候我覺得這本案接到民眾的陳情我們也實際看了民事執行處的勇懾終於在短短一年多一點的時間我們就迅速的完成保險法的修法未來我們這樣的一個金錢債務是不是可以把它作為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
922.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
942.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
人壽保險可不可以作為金錢債務的一個執行標的已經有到了一個救濟所以我要說明的是說其實大法庭司法體系所做的決定有時候就像您說的必須體察民意的過程當中由民意機關向立法院來為必要的修補你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
945.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
974.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
具體的情況是有可能是的好謝謝好那最後我來請教一下我們看到裁判得為申請標的三級三審如何維持這在大審法的階段跟憲法的階段這裡面我們提到一個問題就是說人民申請憲判獲及到裁判本身憲法法庭是不是會淪為第四審的問題我們看到這是在11年憲判第八號這裡面講的是一個異國婚姻之後的婚生子女的一個處分的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
975.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1000.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那麼這當中呢當時的憲判當中有五位大法官提出不同意見書想請教一下您對於過去一整個憲判您可以給我們做一個意見的回饋就這個11年憲判第八號這件事情就是說他的實體結論可能大家也會有不同的意見就是要不要受理應該做成什麼樣的裁判但是我想說的是因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1001.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1026.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在裁判理由裡面他有提出一些關於憲法法庭跟各級法院就是分工區分的一些標準那這個某程度去闡釋了那個憲法訴訟法第61條第一項也就是怎麼樣叫做具有憲法重要性以及貫徹基本權利所必要那這個為什麼重要這個就是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1028.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1051.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
避免憲法法庭變成第四審最重要的一個判斷標準那他有提供了一些比較容易檢視的那我想進一步說的是說他大概有區分成積極的違憲跟消極的違憲那我想可能要進一步考慮的是消極的違憲的這一塊比如說你沒有去審酌到那個基本權利的權衡這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1052.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1078.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
也許還要進一步的去看各個訴訟的訴訟性質比如說像民事訴訟他是當事人主義那當事人沒有提出來法官可不可以依職權斟酌這些訴訟程序的特性可能也要考慮那這些都有待將來憲法法庭在具體的個案去把它一一的去更明確的讓他有一個標準這樣就不會被人家說他是第四審 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1079.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1088.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這也是本席請教你的原因因為這在當年有不同意見書它的重點就成如您所說的第一裁判憲法審查制度不是要成為第四審 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1089.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1109.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第二所謂發生根本性的錯誌才會予以判決產生廢棄第三就該案來講子女平為申請人所以是否法官的裁定並無不當那麼要不要進行委員審查這個有所保留所以你也很認清也重視這個事情在未來的憲法法庭不會有類似讓民眾或司法體系有這樣的疑慮是嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1110.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1135.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好 那我們來看一下那麼剛剛已經請你評價了憲法第118號那麼你怎麼拿捏是否發回與否的界限變成了避免憲法法庭破壞的三期三審變成第四審之外我們來看一下最後一個問題我們憲法我們當中統一解釋法律的權責拆分這在憲法當中第78條規定司法院解釋憲法並有統一解釋法律及命令之權 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1136.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1151.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
但是在原來大審法的階段是由我們的大法官來進行但是到了限訴法階段就拆分了分別是由憲法法庭進行對於憲法法庭它審理的底下案件統一法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1152.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1177.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
及命令的解釋但是另一方面呢法院組織法當中也對於提案庭提交的案件有拘束力這是不是就是我們現行的民事刑事大法庭的一個由來是好那請問一下您有所了解所謂的國民法官法嗎有國民法官法它是不是每年在試刑期間每年都要提出一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1180.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1189.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那是不是在六年之後要來評估是否繼續實行實行六年之後為什麼國民法官制度要做這樣的一個評估的一個期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1196.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1210.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
一個新制度的建立不是那麼容易要定期的去檢討它這個制度那我就本期最後就就你個人你也參與了民事大法庭做出了那個影響到諸多保險人被保險人的權利你也提出了一個保留相反意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1211.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1230.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你認為未來我們的大法庭制度雖然是依據我們的現在的憲訴法拆分出來交由司法院成立的兩個大法庭但是它實行到現在兩年多它所做成的裁定已經造成了一些可能我們死掉未及的後果你認為是不是應該有個定期的方式比照國民法官的制度來進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1232.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1242.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我覺得這個可能是司法行政他要去考量的事但是如果要做也就是說他要考量的問卷的那個調查的方式 |