| IVOD_ID |
163050 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163050 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-10T15:33:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-10T15:54:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2bb0d0af414fb209e9f50a944157dca1cb5545a92025017d49a62968a3a8331df91eb0f286b10d555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林倩綺 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:33:40 - 15:54:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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林倩琦委員請詢問主席院長各位同仁大家好那我們請鄭貝提名人麻煩貝提名人請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.67 |
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鄭被提名人 鄭法官您好首先感謝您出席今天的被提名人的審查本席在您的自傳裡面讀到您的整個成長背景應該對您人格上有很大的影響在學習的過程當中對於每位教師對您的影響您也一語以道之把這個重點講得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.838 |
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那您在擔任民事大法庭的這個法官的時候呢,您也意識到法律見解對於有一些爭端的解釋有一些局限性。那您認為超過這個職場的法律爭議,需要由大法官以憲法, |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.969 |
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101.537 |
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訴訟來評估那麼整體憲法訴訟的解釋呢對於社會的價值選擇還有這整體的社會走向是有很大的影響所以本席相信您在這個過程當中對於大法官這樣一個工作應該是有一些使命的所以今天呢本席就以下幾點要來跟您就教 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.637 |
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那第一點是有關於司法信任跟這幾年大家朗朗上口的司法改革那麼根據TVBS在今年5月15日公佈的民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.708 |
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135.646 |
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司法改革是所有政策當中滿意度最低的項目大概有百分之三十的民眾表示滿意但是大概有百分之五十八的民眾表示不滿意民眾常常認為司法審判會引發一些爭議對司法信任度不足的一個主因 |
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136.787 |
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所以另一方面,這幾年實行的國民法官制度的調查當中,有89.8%的受訪者在參與審判前即信任司法。在參與審判之後,又對司法的信任度提高到了98.7%。 |
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156.918 |
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显示了国民法官的实质参与后民众对司法就更有一些信心但是整体社会对于司法改革的成效还是有一些疑虑所以本席认为能够让民众接近司法了解司法其实也可以提高一些信任度也就是说制度的设计如果能够让人民有更多的实质参与应该对于整个司法信任是可以有机会修复的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.756 |
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215.623 |
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所以本席想要在這邊請教正被提名人 正法官您擔任法官超過三十年那麼是不是有體察到人民對於司法不信任的這樣現象呢那或許我再更進一步問那這幾年來大家對於司法改革尤其是這九年那自從這個司法會議開完了之後呢對於整個成效不彰的這樣一個看法的根源會是什麼 |
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217.352 |
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您要不要先就這個部分就您的觀察您的看法這個回應就我從事審判工作這些年我覺得其實司法信心的核心是裁判的正確性 |
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231.892 |
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250.749 |
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也就是說如果你的裁判是正確的能夠得到當事人的信賴的話慢慢的司法就會獲得大家的信任那除了參與程序的人之外其他的人他們沒有參與程序某程度都是透過外在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.862 |
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267.92 |
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報導去得到說司法到底公不公正但我覺得至少在我的經驗裡面我覺得審判獨立這件事其實是有的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
司法行政應該要做一些怎麼樣的事情讓民眾可以了解其實目前審判獨立這件事應該不是個問題那可能第二個層次就會變成說那大家對於每一個司法裁判的最後的結果可能不一定會滿意那除了說當事人兩照他會有一照是敗訴的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那所以他絕對不太可能會滿意這樣的一個司法的結果所以這個是司法本質上面不容易得到全部人的滿意或者他滿意度不高這樣的一個本質的問題那我覺得只要每一個法官他堅守他的獨立審判做出正確的裁判這個才是司法獲得人民信心最根本的問題那另外一個就是讓人民能夠了解司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以讓人民比較多的了解那對於整體的溝通是有正面效益的那您剛才談到這個審判不利大概是這裡面很重要的一個原因那當然整個社會上呢對於訊息的來源會有一些價值的判斷所以本席認為社會目前的氛圍是對於有錢有勢者可以氣飽潛逃 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
跟大法官可以不顧名義來增加死刑判決難度的現象有一些憂慮我想這是現階段大家對於司法信心產生危機的很大一部分的原因所以您在這段當中也提到社會價值需要由全體社會成員長期凝聚共識來形成 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
375.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
404.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那麼大法官是否有義務來反思司法體系與民意的距離特別是您本身也是個教師那您如何看待這段距離的形成跟化解之道這個當然就是要視具體情況而定就是在面對不同的個案的時候它所牽涉到的那個比如說大法官解釋它所牽涉到的憲法價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是集體價值還是少數人民的就是少數族群的權利如果只是少數族群的權利的時候這個時候你可能還是要優先去保護它因為它絕對沒有辦法透過民法就是民主的多數決去獲得保護但是當它的那個憲法價值是涉及到整個社會的共識的時候這個時候我們社會是怎麼樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
460.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
民意基礎就是說大家的價值觀是怎麼樣這部分確實是需要考量的是的謝謝您的這個回應所以看起來如果司法上有一些跟民意相距太遠的這個部分我相信如果您有機會擔任這個工作應該也會對這個部分提出一些看法方法及省思好的那第二個部分本席想要針對這個您剛才其實有講到的司法獨立跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
481.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
後續本席這邊談的一個司法獨立跟政治干預的這個問題那麼您在自傳裡面也談到獨立的司法是法治國家的根本那麼本席非常認同這樣一個方向那麼您是否有在司法生涯當中呢曾經遇過來自政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
或特定的一些事例或者是行政機關關說的壓力這是本席一個假設性的提問那不曉得您是不是在這個部分有遇到這樣的問題所以如果有這樣子的情境 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那您在這樣子的狀況下您如何自處那如果未來擔任大法官尤其是面對高度敏感而且具有政治性的釋憲案件您如何自我要求確保不受政治力的影響就這個部分應該是說就是我多年來這樣子從事審判工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
522.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
551.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那應該是說當你樹立一個形象你是不會被關說的你就不會被關說所以我是沒有遇到這樣的一個情況那至於說我們在懲判案件多多少少也會遇到一些敏感性案件或怎麼樣但是我們就我的經驗就是依法審判這個部分我覺得也沒有什麼好猶豫或者是有需要去特別顧慮的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
552.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
571.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好的 本席這邊跟你分享一個案例啦那我們來就這個部分來做一些省思上次的大法官的人事案那其中有一位劉靜儀教授遭到民進黨的整體封殺結果這個理由實在很令人難以置信也就是他竟然理由是多次辱罵民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
573.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
588.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那麼在立法院的柯總召更直接表態不讓他過關那這個會帶給外界一個看法就是說執政黨好像不容許有獨立意志的大法官的存在那急於控制憲法法庭那麼請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
589.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
當執政黨將政治忠誠視為人事審查的最高指標的時候您不知道這個部分有沒有警覺您如何保證自己未來進入憲法法庭以後面對這相近的情況來自政黨行政體系的壓力仍然能夠堅守法律人最基本的認知跟良知 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
624.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個部分我沒有辦法評論但是就我個人而言我只能說就像我在口頭報告講的就是我三十幾年來的審判歷程就是我的保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好的謝謝您對這個問題的回應好那接下來一點本期想要跟您請教比較實務上的一個案子案例是關於警職人員退休制度的核限性那警職人員與一般公務人員在考試任用服勤制度上有一些重大的差異那麼2017年到2024年間警消 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
650.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為因公死亡的人數佔了整個軍公教將近四成顯示他的工作在整個風險裡面顯著的偏高然而整個退休的制度跟一般公務人員是一樣的本席在認為這個部分似乎有一些違反平等原則當中不同的事務應有合理的差別待遇的一個憲法精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那麼立法院在今年出三讀通過警察人員人事條例的部分條文提升了警消海巡退休所得替代率民進黨揚言要提起釋憲那請問您認為依據憲法上的平等原則這一個條文有違憲之餘嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
724.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
您是否認同本席的觀點也就是實踐平等應該承認錦霄海巡工作的特殊性給予合理的差異待遇如果在不同的處境當中給予相同的待遇是不是會違反實質的平等那本席認為保障錦霄海巡的退府權益不僅是社會正義也是憲法應有的要求那您對這件事情的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
726.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
748.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
關於這個問題如果從委員提出來的就是說會提出釋憲的話那我應該就不方便在這裡表示意見因為這個我想這個我就不方便在這邊表示意見那您對於本席剛才所講的這樣一個憲法的精神的一個看法呢就是本席提出的這個觀點 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
750.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
756.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
憲法精神當然沒有問題那具體到條文裡面怎麼落實這部分我就沒有辦法提出評析 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
782.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
本席尊重你在你的專業上的回應接下來本席要針對去年12月立法院修正通過的《財政收支劃分法》促使中央對地方釋出更多的財源因為原有的制度對於中南部或非直轄市的城市不太公平資源上的分配有一些不平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
783.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這次修法有助於資源更合理的分配例如根據財政學者黃耀輝教授有一些分析新治下的部分縣市的分配管可以增加一倍以上這對城鄉差距是具體有感的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
799.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這樣子的改善不僅在垂直失衡跟縮小分配比例上不均的修法其實大多數縣市跟學者都很肯定但是行政院在今年又申請釋憲認為這樣子的一個舉動削弱了中央財政的權限並違反憲法第147條的精神那麼請問立法院以多數通過的這個法律調整財政結構是否屬於立法權之正當行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
852.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那麼民進黨總召稱財化法是準憲法因此不可以透過一般修法途徑變更財政結構您對於此點是否認同那本席認為憲法第147條明文保障地方發展與平衡那麼整個修法正是實踐這樣一個理想怎麼會反過來申請釋憲說違憲您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
855.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
882.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那這個我也要抱歉因為委員這件好像已經申請釋憲了所以我真的也所以即將申請釋憲跟已經申請釋憲因為這個是我們法官倫理規定所以確實我也不太方便去表達我個人的意見那本席也請你假設未來有機會您是在這個位置上那本席剛才所講的概念跟細節還有實踐的方式是不是可以請你列入你在這整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
885.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
885.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
原住民議題討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
909.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
932.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
當然本席在這個部分想要跟您請教有關於原住民族在司法系統當中的地位跟文化理解司法院目前已經設置了原住民的專題顯示司法機關正視了文化差異跟制度落差這是重要的起點然而原民的法學者還有社會觀察者還是會指出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
934.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
949.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
實際運作當中整個司法官對於原住民族傳統文化的規範不足或將原住民的價值用法律體系來套用那麼在這個法理理論當中導致實質的正義很多時候沒有辦法落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
950.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
972.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那您是否了解原住民專庭的設置背景跟現行的功能那原住民族在司法體系當中遭遇的文化落差跟實質的障礙您是不是有比較深入的了解那剛才本席也聽到您的一些回應跟詢答相信您對一些案例是有了解的那對於這個原住民族專庭的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
974.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
987.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就這個部分我想就是我曾經看過就是有學者提到說原住民的司法他其實就是原住民站在一個遠離部落的異族法庭也就是說對他們來講確實是陌生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
990.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1006.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
即便是一個原住民專庭它某程度對他們來講還是陌生的它還是在一個國家體制下的這樣一個架構系統這部分我覺得可以分成兩個部分就程序面跟實體面那程序面這個司法行政它有做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1007.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1027 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就是希望可以落實實質平等所以他就會有一些機會平等比如說訴訟救助啊法律輔助啊然後呢這是程序方面對然後希望他可以地位平等所以他就希望有一些同意當然目前原住民的那個就是與別的同意的人數應該還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1029.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1050.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個同意其實還是會有一些落差啦會有一些落差我想其實最主要的困難應該在實體面也就是說我們怎麼樣去體認到說原住民的文化跟就是說他們的比如說部落的習慣法跟我們一般的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1051.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1068.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
陳文法其實是有落差的那我們怎麼樣去調整這個問題所以比如說他們有一些自然主權的想法那這個跟我們的財產權其實是不一致的這個本席在剛才您的一些回應裡面大概了解您的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1069.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1093.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以本席在這邊比較憂心的部分是如果大法官缺乏文化的這個敏感性那麼憲法來保障原住民的美意就很容易變成無形中又加諸了許多限制就如同您理解是在國家法治架構系統概念下所以您未來在審理涉及原住民族權利案件的時候是不是會主動來補充文化知識並且採取 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1095.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1108.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
多元詮釋的方法向您了解這個習慣法跟成分法的一個差異那透過這樣子能夠來避免主流價值又在這個程序當中產生了許多對原住民族的這個壓迫 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1110.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1130.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
是的像我觉得原住民族他们大概非常重视他们文化的话语权或者是诠释权我想这个部分在遇到纷争的时候就有一些事情的解释上面应该要重视他们的诠释也就是我们不能站在我们角度去看一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1130.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1152.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是的而且這個話語當中其實還包括了話語體系後面的這個文化跟邏輯概念所以這邊提出來跟這個被提名人您這邊做一個討論所以我在這邊最後引用謝明陽大法官在過去原住民的這個解釋裡面在803號解釋的這個部分他提出來一個不同意見書的結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1153.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1174.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
然後做一個摘要的舉例他因為這樣一個事件呢在這個事件解釋之後對於原住民族狩獵仍然是維持非常嚴格的上對下的一個管制手段這個其實跟您剛才也有表達的這個原住民對自然這個權的一個概念其實是相呼應 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1175.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1198.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以這個事件所持的觀點基本上還是認為原住民族的狩獵行為危及治安而且危害到生態環境跟野生動物因此必須嚴格限制其獵槍及狩獵的對象不僅不能持有功能較好的安全獵槍進行狩獵之前也必須事先許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1199.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1217.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
且其狩獵對象必須有所限制這樣子的觀點基本上就是對原住民狩獵文化沒有對等與充分的了解本席在這邊分享這一段給您希望未來如果您有機會在這個位置上可以真正省思這些話語當中所代表的意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1218.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1237.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那今天鑑於時間的關係本席最後做一個結語在您自傳當中本席看到了您豐富的司法歷練跟法律素養也表達了對社會價值跟法律規範的這個深刻體悟因此本席期待你未來如果能夠出任大法官不僅能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1238.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1268.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1269.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1269.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
謝謝 |