| IVOD_ID |
163036 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163036 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-09T14:39:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-09T15:00:21+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/29dd8432533c2d580c2b533223063ab0914535bb497189efe2935a81d6c80c622b49bd0206f014fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:39:10 - 15:00:21 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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我們請王宏威委員詢問張其凱委員請準備好謝謝主席請備題名人蘇蘇文理事麻煩請備題名人您好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
在您的自傳裡面您曾經擔任司法院的刑事廳廳長也擔任過我們士林地法法院院長您也自己說你自己審判過很多案件但是呢最近台灣社會對於司法到底是不是公正到底有沒有雙標到底能不能保護好人仍存在非常非常大的疑慮前兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.852 |
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73.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在新北市土城一個有家暴案的男子當街殺了他的妻子跟他的小姨子而前一天才在司法在法院申請了保護令 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
92.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那大家舉國華然就是這個保護令根本沒有辦法保護被家暴的對象而讓他當街慘死另外在前一陣子台灣因為詐騙橫行 封員一家五口 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為被詐騙一家五口死於非命最後呢在整個的調查的過程裡面其中一個重要的涉案人以15萬元交保所以台灣社會就說了難道一條命只值3萬元嗎所以連續的這些事件我想請問一下我們的被提名人您也是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
相關的法院的經驗非常豐富不管是這個家暴令隔天立刻慘死街頭或者是一家五口被詐騙最後15萬元交保您覺得在司法上面是不是有什麼樣的疏失或者跟我們社會的期待事實上距離太遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
160.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝委員提問委員第一個問題是關於家暴令的問題家暴法在民國87年通過當時是整個大陸法系國家第一個有家暴法的國家是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
161.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
家暴法的施行關於保護令的部分必須有很多單位的配合法官裁了保護令之後譬如說社政、警政都要相互的配合現在還有社工的要介入當然就是這個案子很不幸我們感到非常的心痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
202.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個案子在司法上面有沒有疏失或者有沒有要精進的地方法官在裁保護令經過適當的調查所以如果看那個時間的話是還在合理的範圍你認為是合理的範圍就保護令的部分的裁這就是我們在質疑的司法到底能不能保護好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
每一個人都認為他在那個環節裡面他做了他應該做的事但是最後的結果就是悲劇發生好 那我請問最近我們常常在討論也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
檢察官申請羈押那到底要不要交保交保金到底是多少最近有非常多討論我剛提到豐原五口15萬元交保但是另外一個案子就是因為呢有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
262.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
粉絲專業的小編他把幾個檢察官他的照片秀出來做了一個梗圖說命在命還結果呢就羈押禁建所以大家覺得說詐騙造成無口之家全部死於非命15萬元交保另外呢這個是檢察官當然會不爽然後就羈押禁建我們過去還有太多的案例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
266.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
花眼好12万元交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
267.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
295.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
還有很多共諜案 所謂共諜案20萬元交保或者最近也發生一個案子讓台大醫院面上無光就是台大的名醫社性侵案40萬元交保你不能不說他的設計地位是很崇高他隨時可以離開台灣的然後棄保潛逃讓台大醫院的院長都經不住大罵這位潛逃的性侵的醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
297.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
325.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我讲到这么多的案例更不要讲我们之前好几个什么那种百万赌王一样的交保之后交保潜逃所以请问一下我们社会都在问那么法院在检察官来说就是他在要羁押开羁押庭的时候他的交保或者羁押他的标准到底是什么看起来我们变得非常混乱了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
345.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
反而覺得有本事有辦法的他可能幾萬甚至上百萬交保對他們來講九牛一寶交保之後他就交保潛逃了但是我剛才講比如像這個小編這樣子對檢察官檢察官不爽但是他到了一個積壓境界的狀況連交保都不給他交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
346.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
362.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那所以我不曉得在法院系統有沒有去討論過這樣的一個羈押的標準到底是什麼交保的條件又是什麼該交保不交保該羈押不羈押有沒有這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
364.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
381.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
謝謝委員提問委員提到的這個豐原五口應該還是在偵查的階段那偵查的這個階段它的事實是浮動的我們不曉得檢察官他手邊掌握的證據到一個什麼程度所以就這個部分還沒有到院方我們也沒有辦法做出比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
382.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
405.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
正確的評論那麼至於其他的案件就是在就是如果檢察官申請羈押的時候我們法官會根據法律的規定來就是相關的要件一一審核之後來做最後的判斷被提名人您是被提名為司法院副院長我剛才也聽到你如果能夠當司法院副院長你有一些想要做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
405.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
425.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
可是老實說我們看不到你們對於司法的公平正義還有他的標準目前在社會大家覺得非常的失望跟期待落空很多你們想要做出什麼樣的努力我剛才講的就是以交保的這個標準我們看到無薩薩 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
426.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
437.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
覺得應該去羈押的你不羈押該交保的你不去交保另外你在這邊也特別提到你希望能夠追求審判獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
438.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
462.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想請問你 你知道社會的民眾大部分認為我們司法沒有審判獨立我引述一個美麗島電子報的一個民意調查針對司法的部分竟然有高達將近六成的人認為現在的賴政府是介入司法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
464.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
465.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有將近六成59.3%的民眾認為司法在選擇性辦案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
473.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
497.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
您同不同意您覺得這樣子的民眾的看法跟你認為的是不是有落差而是不是也因此你希望要去爭取所謂的審判獨立跟委員報告就我的同事就是在我工作的環境我們大部分的法官都是兢兢業業然後獨立審判這個是沒有錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
498.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
499.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在的審判有獨立嗎 就您所了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
527.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
529.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就我所了解就我自己來講我覺得審判獨立跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
531.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
557.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
就是我的日常生活的一部分這是你個人但是大部分呢怎麼會有這樣的一個民意調查的結果呢我覺得就是我們跟民眾之間可能還有需要更多的了解跟溝通這就是你們每一個案子就是一次的溝通在這麼多的案子之下累積下來民眾的感受就是如此另外因為今天是大法官審查我要請問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
559.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
582.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為您也是推動國民法官的推手之一那麼在大法官做出解釋憲判之八對於法院要判決死刑才行一致決事實上引起社會極大的爭議認為這是實質廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
585.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
614.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
而這跟國民法官推動有沒有相漢格的地方也就是說當時為什麼要有國民法官就是很多都認為很多是恐龍法官因為呢他們對於社會或者民眾的期待民眾認為司法應該要保護民眾保護好人嚴懲壞人事實上那個差距太大了所以才因此要推動國民法官所以我想請問一下如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
615.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
619.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
按照大法官的解釋整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
620.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
646.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
死刑的判決必須要一致決那你認為應該是由一致決就可以推翻國民法官判死嗎如果國民法官認為他應該判處死刑但是因為現在的大法官的解釋必須這些所有專業的法官要一致決那是不是國民法官他的判決就輕易的被推翻您贊成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
647.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
674.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員說明這個113年限8號的這個判決因為申請的案件裡面並沒有一件是實行國民法官的所以這個判決的效力射程距離並沒有包含到國民法官的案件那國民法官的案件他的評議有特別的規定那就是他的評議就是如果是要一般的案件的量刑是二分之一然後如果是死刑判決是三分之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
675.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
695.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那大法官在這個判決裡面有特別提到說如果是國民法官的判決的話也只有職業法官那三票要一致其他的部分呢就還是維持原來的三分之二的這個方式來進行所以他不應該涵蓋國民法官的案件嗎應該是他的射程距離沒有到國民法官的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
697.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
723.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好我討論到這裡就是我們其實在對每一位大法官我們都很在意的就是在上一波的大法官提名裡面我們因為那時候九名大法官七名大法官他都有參與一些Face的行動或者是他在發文他的文章論述裡面支持Face那我請問一下被提名人你支持Face嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
726.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
750.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我的立場是這樣我覺得廢死這件事情它不應該是非黑即白的不應該是什麼並不是非黑即白就是只能夠有單一的選擇它應該是一個過程然後也可能就是在我們大法官的解釋裡面我是問您個人您個人贊成廢死嗎 您支持廢死嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
752.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
781.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
听我说明完就是因为我就是在大法官的宪巴里面他是认为死刑是核心的死刑是核心的然后呢我自己担任法官我的眼中只有法律跟证据如果法律跟证据是这个这个案子应该判死刑我就会本于确信来判死刑然后事实上呢在宪巴的这一个判决里面的三就是三十几个案件里面有个案件是我曾经审理过的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
784.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
806.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個理論上我是應該要迴避這個案件的我覺得妳有點在迴避這個問題喔那我直接想請教妳喔妳是不是曾經捐款贊助給廢死聯盟曾經捐過兩萬塊為什麼因為就是有朋友來募款就是他們年底覺得說這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
807.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
821.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有需要款項所以其實我就捐了一些所以單純只是因為有人跟你募款所以這不牽涉到你個人的立場或者是你支持Face聯盟嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
822.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
841.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
應該是這樣說就是我的立場是法官就是根據法律來做跟證據來做判斷那事實上我也有判過死刑的案件就是依照當時的法律來做的判斷你的意思說你自己曾經判死過對不對是好那我想再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
842.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
862.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們現在在立法院,因為這是有廣大的民眾在網路上,大概有14萬的民眾的訴求陳情,那尤其大家知道那凱開案,前一陣子的凱開案,他認為您虐幼兒致死,應該判處死刑或者無期徒刑。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
863.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
886.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那因為在行政院法務部遲遲沒有提出法務部的版本因為之前他們是反對的所以呢在立法院裡面現在國民黨的立法院黨團提出了刑法第286條的條文修正對幼童凌虐致死那麼最高可以處於死刑還或者無期徒刑你認為這樣的修正會違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
891.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
916.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
法定刑要不要定死刑這件事情是立法形成自由凌略幼童致死或者是凌略來殺害幼童或者是直接他的犯意呈現到殺人罪直接判殺人罪都有可能就是如果經過大院的討論覺得應該要法定刑要升高到死刑的話那這個部分是立法裁量自由不過呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
917.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
934.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
想要提醒就是說相關的權責機關應該要做一個比較好的這個比對就是相關的這個相類似的這個相類似的刑罰是不是他的刑度是不是可以做一個比較不要差異太大會造成這個罪行不相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
935.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
948.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以你个人的话认为如果我们今天修正这个条文的话你不认为是有违宪之语因为我们现在很可怕行政院只要认为我们修正的是他们没有版本的他就认为是违宪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
949.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
976.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
現在應該是說單一死刑比較難通過憲法的檢驗我剛講到286條我沒有講其他的條文所以這個部分你認為沒有違憲之餘另外請教一下我們在立法院之前曾經提出針對反對廢除死刑舉行全國性的公投但是被中選會駁回 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
978.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1003.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我想請問你因為你在你回答就是我們各黨團的這個回答問題裡面你也認為重大政策立法院是可以提出全民公投的但是這個案子竟然被中選會來駁回你認為中選會駁回立法院所提出來的反Face公投適當嗎有沒有違憲之語 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1005.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1027.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
跟委員說明 重大的議案可以進行公投這個是經過大法官已經有解釋過了然後在公投法的第二條這個部分應該是沒有問題的但是就中選會就公投的提案有沒有實質的審查權這個確實是有不同的意見你認為有實質審查權嗎立法院有實質審查權嗎 按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1033.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1061.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
大法官之前做出來的解釋大法官的解釋是說可以提重大公投的議案但但是議案的內容是什麼可能要就是要要符合相關的規定第二條同時有規定到一個一個問題是說出憲法規定外就是基本上公民投票可不可以投憲法的議題這可能會比較有爭議因為他有一個除外的規定那如果是已經就憲八的部分憲八因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1062.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1091.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為大法官已經做出了解釋他的效力相當於這個憲法所以就憲八就是要推翻憲八或是他詳細的內容我不是那麼清楚但是就是說如果是跟憲法的議題有關的話所以這就是我覺得被提名的人又認為整個大法官的視線是完全的無限的膨脹當時很多大法官還有大法官認為說大法官不用屈從民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1091.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1120.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
但是另外一方面我們賴總統也講啊對有爭議的時候要用更大的民主來解決啊其實立法院就是民意機關你民意機關定的這個提出來的公投案你還是不准那我們就用更大的民主來解決如果按照被提名所說的那麼憲判之八號他們這個已經說此席要一致決而這樣就不能夠來做全民公投的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1120.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1146.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那這就是漠視更大的民主漠視民意不是嗎這不是把大法官真的難怪大法官說我可以不需要屈從民意所以大法官好大喔所以我們剛才一直在討論從我一開始就這個我們整個的諮詢我的重點就是在於我們的現在的司法到底能不能讓人民幸福我們的司法到底能不能保護好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1146.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1165.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
嚴懲壞人他能不能成為社會公平正義的最後一道防線如果他不行的話我剛才看到前面的幾個例子當街慘死的也好或者詐騙一家五口死掉的也好或者我們有這麼多的案件而這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1166.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1190.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
被害者或被害家屬只是因為大法官一個偏頗然後他根本就違憲而且你說死刑本來就合憲啊死刑合憲但是你做出了這個大法官的解釋死的變成十字廢死空有其名但是沒有辦法判處死刑的時候難道人民不能夠決定嗎被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1190.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1193.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個你同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1212.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1230.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這是我們司法還是要以人民為依歸怎麼讓人民去幸福讓人民得到保障得到保護才是最高指導原則吧是你同意嗎那另外這一點點是請教一下你認同中華民國憲法有權給予台澎金馬嗎這個大法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1269.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1269.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 謝謝 |