| IVOD_ID |
163033 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163033 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-09T10:43:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-09T11:03:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/29dd8432533c2d5888dd14594775c718914535bb497189ef8774e4c670b29f4399ca43a5534ac6bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王育敏 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:30 - 11:03:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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蔡提名人蔡提名人你好我上午其實有一直在聽你回答委員的一些你的回應那剛剛我聽了你回答林黛樺委員坦白講幫你捏了一把冷汗 |
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24.589 |
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42.163 |
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你說你對司法院的業務不是很了解今天你是被提名要擔任司法院院長的人你在巡打的時候說你對司法院的業務不是很了解我想問的是你真的準備好了嗎對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.155 |
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67.01 |
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你真的準備好要當司法院院長了嗎你對司法院的業務不瞭解那你怎麼可以擔任司法院院長呢為什麼賴總統會提名你呢是不是有更多比你更熟悉司法院業務的人更專業的人更適合這個職務呢我想一定有人比我更熟悉司法院的業務那所以你是最適合的人選嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.041 |
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94.362 |
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我自己不確定我是不是最適合人選但是我覺得我應該是適當的人選之一因為我想擔任一個重要的職務除了能力跟經驗以外我覺得人品很重要那我自己的評估我自己對自我的評價我覺得是人品是好的 |
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95.031 |
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123.997 |
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人品是不是你人品指的是哪一個部分我想人品就是最重要的特點是沒有私心沒有為自己的私利去著想就是一個職務我其實我在賴總統召見的時候我自己不知道我會被提名董事辦院院長所以到現在還不知道是誰推薦你 |
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125.475 |
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128.542 |
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其實我不知道我一直很好奇就是因為這個過程是正部長他徵詢我的意見 |
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136.567 |
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但是我跟他講說我年紀不小了那所以其實我一開始我是玩具的但是後來有朋友跟我說有這個機會你就做做看吧但是我想說 |
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158.717 |
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175.934 |
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如果能夠多為台灣做一點事情那我覺得如果有這個機會那我願意所以我就接受這個推薦事實上我是自我推薦因為在這個程序上是自我推薦自我推薦這樣子 |
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176.935 |
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所以這我推薦我們不要寫一些字 填一些資料比如說自傳等等等等那就是我回顧一下我過去的經歷我說因為我只當過檢察官嘛那其他之前其實包括現任的大法官也有檢察官出身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
197.529 |
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我們就來解釋一下你擔任檢察官的時候的一些表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.481 |
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剛剛大家特別提到了有關拉法葉案事實上這個陳長文律師就直指你是核心也是主辦但是剛剛你在回答委員的詢問的時候又說起訴不是你那我就要具體問你因為當時大家都知道盧恩發檢察總長他受到了上級的命令當時陳水扁總統下令 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.61 |
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267.247 |
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然後呢他就是施壓要起訴當時呢他是交代黃世民但是呢黃世民不從才是你來接手那請問你接手了之後你做了什麼事因為你剛剛迴避說你你沒有起訴雷學明等人請問那你接手之後你有沒有就是羈押他們我在我剛剛講過就是說這個案子是90年7月起訴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.623 |
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90年7月我事實上是不在北檢我問你就是吳仁芳要求黃世明接手那黃世明不從是你接手的你接手之後做了什麼我當時是一個基層的檢察官黃檢察長他時候應該是北檢的檢察長吧我不太確定但是事實上是有其他的學長他們處理這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
319.874 |
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那我在90年11月從板橋地檢現在的新北地檢調到台北地檢因為你接手的時候當時裁定這個羈押的時候當時是在你手上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.623 |
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331.782 |
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應該不是你很多回答都是有點模糊我記憶中應該不是那為什麼陳朝文律師他只指你就是主要的關鍵人 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
357.6 |
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主要的關鍵我也不曉得為什麼他說主要的關鍵就是因為我被指示就是他如總長那吃鴨黃甲長然後就是叫我去起訴嘛他原來的意思是這樣但是這完全不是事實那我可以請教你雷學敏相關等人的案件你當中扮演什麼樣的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
358.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
361.685 |
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我扮演的角色我是參加公訴 論告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
370.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
390.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以公訴你是主要的公訴的檢察官對不對公訴其中之一啦因為起訴的人所以你現在要告訴大家是你不是主責跟你沒有關係不是跟我沒有關係我不能這樣講因為我參加參與這個公訴就不能跟我講沒有關係事實上是跟我就是這個案子我是有參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
418.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是這個案件我自己起訴的案件不是這個案子我自己起訴的案件是後來的案子那這個案子最後是被判無罪你對於你自己擔任公訴的檢察官現在看到這個案子被判無罪你當時你有沒有檢討自己在當中所扮演的角色你到底是奉承上命在扮這個角色還是你有積極去追求一些客觀的事實因為現在大家都看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
判例就是當時違反了無罪推定的原則在沒有積極的人證物證情況底下依然要去起訴雷學明等人然後他們也獲得了冤獄的賠償這個案子你有什麼看法是這點我說明一下就是我剛剛有稍微提一下就是無罪推定是訴訟法的規定每一位被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
448.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他就是被告被提出告訴也好告發也好他成為被告他事實上必須要受到無罪推定的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
450.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
474.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那檢察官偵查之後如果認為證據足夠證明他有足夠的犯罪嫌疑有足夠的 suspicion他就要起訴這是一個必須我在問你雷學敏的案件你覺得他的人證物證是不是足夠因為法院的判決覺得不足夠我講就是說起訴的決定是其他的檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
475.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
490.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我起訴之後要進行公訴因為你也參與這個案子嘛所以我現在是要問你說你現在回過頭來看當時是不是人證物證的確是不充分法院的裁定是有道理的我沒有辦法這樣很肯定這樣講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
491.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
494.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
檢察官起訴跟法官判決有罪的標準是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
506.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
528.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
也就是說檢察官認為如果說還是要依照證據為原則吧當然當然所以我在問你啊那個案子人證物證到底充不充分啊證明的標準我們可以講是不一樣的就是說我在當檢察官的時候我認為有相當的犯罪的嫌疑夠了我認為可以起訴所以我現在是說你現在回頭過來看這個案子的時候你怎麼評價嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
530.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
547.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
當法院做出跟你當時的看法不一樣的時候你怎麼評價自己當時這麼積極的一個無罪的判決的案件我現在不適合發表任何評論案子已經過去了對這個不適合現在目前還有一部分的案件犯罪所得的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
548.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
556.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那個追那個追索現在還在進行在歐洲還有些地方在其他在加勒比亞當時起訴的決定不是我做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
563.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
589.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
起訴的決定不是我做的所以呢蔡平民人我覺得你在回答上面遇到對你有利的你會承認是自己遇到對你不利的你就說不是你我覺得這樣一個態度好像就是不是在一件事情上這樣被檢視起來就會覺得你會有意另外一個我要問你的是你當時擔任法務部國兩司司長的時候呢有發生一件陳同佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
590.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
609.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
杀害女友的很重大的命案当时台湾人民也非常的愤怒觉得陈同佳应该要受台湾的刑事处罚但是这件事情陈同佳他在香港他是另外一个案子他服役完出狱之后他要来台湾自首 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
612.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
635.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
當時誰擋了陳同佳的投案之路你當時司法務部國兩司的司長在這件事情上你的態度跟角色又是什麼我基本的看法是被告如果要主動來投案那我覺得是不需要透過司法互助的途徑的也就是說他要來投案基本上他是可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
638.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
663.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個案子因為他是一個殺人案件他是一個殺人案件他本身因為他已經有殺人的之前的事實他事實上有些安全的疑慮那當時呢要去當時的政府包括法務部包括警政署他們認為說如果陳同佳如果是陳同佳要來投案那 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
665.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
688.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
應該有人去陪同就是說戒護因為他要坐飛機來在飛機上事實上有可能有安全的餘力當時港方有人陪同啊所以呢他們就派人去香港那有跟香港當局溝通說能不能把陳同佳送到飛機上比如說送到登機門 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
690.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
696.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
由台灣的檢察人員去解釋我只是要問你你當時是國兩司的司長你又擔任過檢察官照道理來講你對一個殺人犯你應該是會主張要緊急來偵辦當時的立場是這樣子你有沒有去說服你的長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
710.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
723.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我盡量 我有盡力說服啦你當時是這樣的立場是不是是 是這樣的立場所以最後你沒有說服你的長官最後還是這件個案到現在還是完全沒有辦法讓陳同佳逍遙法外不是那麼順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
728.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
755.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個是我們看到的情況另外一個呢你在被提名的記者會上面這個蕭副總統呢他指示提名蔡秋名是為了提升國安案件的專業能量確保國家安全所以他指示然後呢你就很快的回應你說提升國安案件專業能量是任內的首要任務但是在今天你的書面報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
757.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
777.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
案件專業能量沒有在你的重點任務裡面你直接把它標示出來我要問的是你當時是因為記者會去附和蕭副總統的話還是你是真心的認為你來擔任司法院的院長你是要完成提升國安案件的專業能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
780.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
807.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
其實我現在有點忘記我沒有講說提案提升國安的媒體是怎麼登 我不太確定那個你可以看一下我的PPT就是是我的上任的首要業務這點我不確定這點我沒有這樣講這點我不確定但是我想國安問題在台灣現在目前我覺得相當的是一個嚴重的問題那很多國民都引以為憂啦作為一個國民我覺得國安問題是重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
808.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
829.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那是不是你的首要任務我現在在問你一遍你可以澄清國安問題基本上不是大法官的工作的內容因為他是要做憲法法庭的審判但是如果在司法院院長的職務裡面他事實上會跟這個問題有點關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
830.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
854.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
就是因為在目前還有國安專題就是你上任之後提升國安案件專業能量是不是你的首要任務我不能講說這是我的首要任務我想還有更直接的一個社團院長要做的事情所以你當時在記者會是為了呼應蕭副總統所以就講出這樣的話沒有這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
855.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
878.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
沒有這個意思我到底有沒有講這個話我們再確認一下我不算確定有或者是沒有但是我這個應該不是我的意思不是你的意思你講的但是不是你的意思好這個目前為止發現蔡提名有一個問題就是說你講過的話呢你都會說好像不是你的意思包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
879.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
896.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
其實你也講過一段話在台灣法官比較靜態檢察官比較動態因此未來如果有機會讓兩個工作有一段時間互相交換接觸增加視野與經歷可能會有益法官的身心健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
898.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
920.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這段話是不是你講的這段話是我講的但是我講這段話是我參考歐洲的一些實務就是特別是德國因為他們法官跟檢察官之間的交流非常的頻繁但是我並沒有聽德國的同事講說因為檢察官跟法官之間的交流讓檢審 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
923.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
950.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
審檢不分或者是說那我就問你你講這段話未來你擔任司法院院長你是不是要去推動這項制度讓這一個檢察官跟法官兩個工作可以有一段時間互相來交換你要不要推動這個要看實際的需要啦就是這種事情就是我剛剛提到的就是您一剛開始提到就是說我對司法院的業務比較不了解其中的一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
951.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
967.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我想我有這樣子的這個當然是一個當時的一個想法提名人我提醒你你在回答徐宇峥委員的時候你的態度是說你思慮不周所以你道歉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
967.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
995.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那你在回答我的時候看起來態度又不一樣我覺得這個前後一致性我們對於一個司法院院長的信任度也是很重要因為這樣子看不出你基本的原則跟立場是什麼接下來我要問的是我們現行的羈押制度有沒有被濫用的問題押人取共你覺得這個在現行的檢察官的作為上面如果有人押人取共你贊不贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
997.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1026.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
如果真正是押人提供我當然不贊成真的不贊成嗎但是現行我們看到目前有一些檢察官在做法上面他在證據不充分的情況底下他就使用羈押的手段或者是一再延押的手段想要達成他的調查的目的請問這個我們相關的四字號的解釋跟行送法的相關的規定你認為這樣的一個做法有沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1027.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1047.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個有沒有違法要看個案就是押忍這件事情我想肯定是很多羈押的案件但是為什麼會羈押我想他有法定的理由那我如果不去了解這些事實的狀況那我就隨便做評論我覺得事實不負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1048.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1076.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好這一個部分也是現在讓民眾覺得害怕的問題因為如果是這種押忍取共事實上已經是侵害人權了那未來你要擔任是司法院的院長我想保障人權是司法院非常重要的一個責任跟角色這個部分我們現在看到的是現行的法院有很多當檢察官提出羈押的時候法院的審理好像都是照單全收 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1077.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1096.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
並沒有在審理上面真正的好好認真的再去做一些適度的研判這個如果將來沒有機會擔任司法院院長這個部分應該是要好好檢討一下另外一個就是有關於這個行政跟司法之間的立法之間的衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1097.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1117.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
你曾經說過中央機關有法律及政治面挑戰我認為適合由司法院來解決所以代表未來你如果擔任司法院院長的時候你會更大幅的去受理有關於行政跟立法之間的爭議是這樣子嗎你有講過這段話 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1119.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1140.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我想這個是憲法法庭的任務之一就是說如果有機關之間的職權的爭議的話他們是可以提申請到由憲法法庭來解決那這個是一個被動的受理因為說法官的立場就是說他是不告不理 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1140.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1149.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以他不能是直接說來你們的正義我來解決不會有這樣的事情就是說他如果有這樣的案件那麼就依法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1151.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1178.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們可以看到過去憲法法庭事實上在針對一些不受理的高度爭議的申請案這個也是很常見的包括2016年監察院的不當黨產條例是不受理的2018年立法院的前瞻的違憲疑慮也不受理2022年林黛嬅提的這個也不受理2024年賴香林勞保基金違憲疑慮也是不受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1179.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1208.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
但是如果未來的這個憲法法庭要受理的是屬於行政跟立法之間的衝突的話那等於是把憲法法庭自己也捲入了一些政治的紛爭當中那我們希望台灣的司法其實是真正可以是超然獨立的那在受理跟不受理的這些標準我覺得未來如果你有機會擔任司法院院長這個真的是要好好思考清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1208.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1219.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
絕對不是因為是當權好 謝謝王玉敏委員的詢問也謝謝蔡備提名人的說明 |