| IVOD_ID |
162856 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162856 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
27 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-25T11:01:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-25T11:12:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f57cb0a8c4e38eeeb9d00eebfa22cd2c4c7cefc3e4f112f4f0fad46ac425924a0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張宏陸 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:01:37 - 11:12:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員王定宇等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第五十四條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十三條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員張宏陸等30人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員王義川等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員陳素月等18人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例第四十七條條文修正草案」案。【第六案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】） |
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我先請這個署長咱家檢視署署長喂吶 |
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署長今天大家有很多聚焦在47條的討論那其實大家的看法都一致啦就是不能單憑你自白你說你多少就多少這樣子就可以簡清其形什麼的我覺得現在這樣子變成一個很大的漏洞不知道署長你的看法 |
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對我剛剛幾個委員都這樣的看法就是說他只要就是他自擺他自擺的這個部分大概就是只有他自己部分的這個犯罪的一個比如他這個被騙了一百萬他拿了這個大概只有五千塊 |
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53.337 |
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的這個狀況啊所以他對於這樣的自白對整個我們防治一個炸雞的這個立法的這個原意大概是去有一隻反環人民最有感的就是他被騙了他能夠反反的這些財務我是覺得這個是有在做法律有在做填補的一個空間啊我們鄭重委員的這個提議 |
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73.51 |
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不是啦就算像署長講的你說五千嘛五千也是他自己講的啊對不對如何去查證他真的是五千然後要達到署長所說的那一個目標所有的立委跟大家的看法其實都一致啦 |
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92.752 |
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應該大家都沒有特別的看法都支持就是看文字如何去修正去把它用得比較漂亮比較可以去執行而已我覺得今天是這樣吧對不對 署長對 沒有錯 沒有錯 |
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107.913 |
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不然這個漏洞,讓被受詐騙的人其實會心有不甘我覺得我們應該要把他補起來另外我還要再請金管會的組長跟銀行局的副組長來,金管會跟銀行局 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
142.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
143.66 |
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來來齁 |
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144.717 |
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172.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
剛剛我在跟署長討論的時候你們都有聽到啦齁我們這個修法就是要補這個洞另外如果說我們要把它返回所有的這一些錢它還有一個好處有可能這一個啊不管廁所或什麼它可以供出上層它才可以減刑啦對不對阿不然它用五千塊齁如果說拿五千塊人家一百多它被關我認為它也心裡有不平衡啦齁不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
174.437 |
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197.833 |
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我必須要說我先請問金管會跟銀行局如果民眾已經報案了說他已經知道被詐騙了這個錢還要不要轉出去銀行還要不要繼續支付如果他是用信用卡他還要不要繼續支付這筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
200.128 |
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212.807 |
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報告委員那如果民眾他被騙錢已經轉出去他會去報案不是不是不是我說的是錢還沒轉出去的時候他發現了他就已經去報案了然後也已經拿到報案三連單了然後到銀行 |
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215.43 |
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237.255 |
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對不對 那銀行是不是還有義務把錢轉出去如果第一時間報案的時候 銀行端會做圈存也就是還沒讓第一時間報案 我們會跟報案完之後銀行會做圈存的一個動作這個備案就領不出去了 這個我們大概有這樣的一個措施署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
239.515 |
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251.72 |
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我們請議員來回答他的感覺和署長的感受對 我再釐清一下委員的意思是說聽清楚對 就是民眾被騙錢轉出 如果錢已經轉出去還沒轉出去如果還沒有轉出去去報案應該也就是這個照片案件還不成立吧還不成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
268.697 |
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290.767 |
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他都已經報案了好,那報案,所以他民眾的錢還沒有轉出去嗎他自己的錢我還沒有轉給詐騙集團那民眾還沒有損失嗎不是,還沒轉還沒轉出但他已經報案了對不對,那銀行端也知道櫃檯也知道這樣子錢可不可以轉出去你這樣聽得懂我的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
297.912 |
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313.882 |
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他已經報案了已經拿到報案三年單了然後也去銀行講說這筆錢他已經報案了他希望不可以轉那這樣要不要轉出去如果他所以報案基本上是我被騙我轉出去那邊如果設警示帳戶那邊的詐騙集團的帳戶錢就不能再出去所以現在是民眾有沒有把錢匯給詐騙集團如果有的話我跟你講很簡單他用一月式的詐騙就是用信用卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
327.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
336.455 |
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對不對那他已經去報案了說他被詐騙然後銀行端他的這個信用卡還要不要繼續轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
342.179 |
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344.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
如果這個是刷卡的話因為我們就是會有那個爭議賬款的處理因為有可能刷卡之後如果他可能銀行已經把錢轉給那個還沒轉對好那這個因為因為有兩種對因為兩種因為剛剛一直在講是轉賬可是委員講的是信用卡信用卡消費對然後那個發卡銀行還沒有把錢轉出去嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
369.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
387.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對 那這時候銀行 反正民眾可以先跟銀行就是講這個狀況然後銀行不是啦 他已經報案了啊對對對 報案那報案你只要回答我我剛剛講 這樣講銀行到底要不要轉要不要把人家信用卡的帳轉出去來來來你只要回答我就可以就好了銀行如果還沒有把錢轉出去的話他可以先擋下來對 然後他再去跟那個透過國際組織去講說這個錢是有問題的他可以先擋下來確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
409.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對 可以先擋一下 如果他錢還沒有還沒有撥款出去的話我為什麼要這樣問呢 我不講個案啦但民眾陳情 你們都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
410.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
433.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他就是一夜市詐騙他發現了他被詐騙了趕快去警察局報案派出所給他報樣三年單他拿去銀行說我已經被詐騙了而且我已經有了結果銀行還跟他講說不行這是什麼什麼公平什麼一些原因所以他這個簽證卡還是要必須要轉出去這是事實發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
434.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
445.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那這個洞要不要補起來因為那個信用卡他有信用卡組織的一些規定不是啦對信用卡僅之是沒有錯那他已經確定去報案了啊報案都已經拿到了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
446.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對不對他已經知道他被詐騙了啊那我們的銀行就是反正我不管你嘛你八萬是你的嘛我的信用卡我有一個國際的對因為信用卡他有國際組織的一個規定就是說刷卡之後如果人家請款我可能錢就要撥出去對那聯繫這部分好你已經說得很清楚了大家都聽到了署長還有什麼這個就是現行的一夜市詐騙的非常大的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
477.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
496.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
非常大的漏洞我去報案也沒有用啊反正銀行也是這樣啊對不對我覺得啦我覺得啦應該要跨部會去處理這個問題雖然我們要符合國際的一個標準但明明這個就已經是詐騙已經知道是犯罪了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
524.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那銀行反正我就不管你我就是這樣我還是把錢匯出去這個金額都不是大的一萬多兩萬的我覺得這個洞要補起來啊好 那個委員如果你有相關個案可以提供給我們我們就是會後我們再了解一下不是個案啦 是現在所發生的啦有發生的事實啦我不在這裡討論個案啦但這個就是已經真的很多次了這點我覺得我們政府應該要補起來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
527.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以署長你們今年打造的預算被刪減多少我們就最大比的就是那個網路的一個市造的部分大概刪了四千萬有被刪嘛有被刪對嘛我剛剛有提啊我剛剛有講啊就有被刪啊這個有被刪那另外被刪我覺得你看像我剛剛講的這個那個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
556.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
567.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我相信很多人也不一定有遇到如果不是我們當立法委員人家來陳情很多人還不知道對不對 那署長你現在知道了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
568.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
591.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
很多銀行 很多銀行根本不理你們嘛很多銀行不理你們警察嘛 對不對 反正他就照他做的嘛那我們台灣的打詐 政府一直講要打詐 結果這麼大一個漏洞我真的覺得應該趕快補起來啊 不然各做各的銀行他已經講得很清楚啦 他必須要照那個國際的遊戲規則啊 對不對那這個我們真的要補起來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
595.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
616.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我的看法就是受理報案被照給三年單還沒轉出去銀行就要把他擋起來本來就是啊本來就是啊這個是民眾的情感對就是這個我們法律的規範你今天被騙了你去報案了而且報案第一時間到銀行去了就是要把他擋起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
628.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是這麼簡單所以署長就是這麼簡單你的看法跟我一樣我們要把這個洞給補起來可能要拜託部長或什麼跨部會的協調把這個補起來不然銀行反正 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
632.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
654.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你的錢是你的錢啊我只要符合規矩啊不然到時候金管會又查銀行啊然後又怎樣啊我覺得齁這樣子啊齁真的實在是一個這麼大的洞在這裡你每天在那邊你的數字啊幾億幾億一萬個一萬就一億了這個每天的數字就會在那裡啊所以我覺得這個要處理啦好不好好謝謝 |