| IVOD_ID |
162841 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162841 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-25T10:44:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-25T11:01:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f501d22f7b874c4e9c137b1f10ec760e8b2e30616ee03c0ffc6812948a7a6596355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:44:37 - 11:01:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長、交通部觀光署署長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長率所屬相關單位列席就「交通部觀光署、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【若開會當日交通部觀光署新任署長尚未就任，該署部分另擇期排案】） |
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謝謝主席 也有請我們交通部陳部長台鐵政董事長跟我們高鐵石董事長好 高鐵石董事長 政董事長委員好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
40.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
三位我想這樣直接進入主題啦因為我特別看到6月17號這個台灣民意基金會做了一個民調針對我們賴總統的七項特質來詢問一下民意嘛我想這個部分大家都 人民是頭家到底民意怎麼樣去看那我們發覺調查的一個結果有優的 有好的 有不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
41.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
62.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以我們特別發覺跟今天主題因為我們不是要評論這七個特質我們發覺很有趣的說最差的就是民眾認為不肯定的最差的兩個倒數第一個倒數第一名當然就是政黨合作那就這個不是今天的主題倒數第二名就是你相不相信這個賴總統誘人為財我講的不是賴總統他是最終負責者 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
83.324 |
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不管是你行政院也好但外交部最近這個如果這個至少有5%外交部要負責外交部啊派誰去到住外派的其實你們覺得在有理由但是很多民眾想不通那我們在想交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.642 |
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100.207 |
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在這個基礎上面會不會有什麼貢獻因為現在這個部分就是給你們做參考啦因為畢竟我們部長以前也是跟在我們賴總統身邊的那民意這樣的一個反響我覺得你們要拿去做參考那我就請教一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
102.308 |
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118.068 |
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陳部長我想先問一下台鐵的振動市場振動市場在我們高鐵這個可以講說很多年的一個資歷跟經驗那你會用它到台鐵的話主要的一個用意你說一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
118.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
133.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 報告委員我在思考這個人的安排的部分我們先思考的是那個單位未來的發展的需求是什麼在台鐵公司化之後他需要有專業的經理人可以讓他公司化的體質要先做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
133.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
153.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那二方面要有這個安全的經驗因為大家對於台鐵的安全的要求非常的高那所以就這兩點我們來思考說哪樣的人是適合的那我就特別拜託鄭董事長因為他在鐵道安全方面的經驗我相信高鐵大家都看得到他的成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
154.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
178.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那另外針對這個專業經理人的部分跟公司化的部分我認為過去在高鐵的經驗或者是在長榮集團的經驗非常的豐富鄭董事長我所理解的話大概人生中大部分時間都是專業經理人那這個部分如果來帶領台鐵邁入公司化的第二年讓它更加企業化這個部分我認為鄭董事長是做得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
178.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
204.16 |
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好這個部長簡單來說事實上是借中他的長財我們就是重用嘛是是這樣還是隨便是重用嗎報告員當然是重用這很重要因為台鐵這個部分問題是非常多台鐵第一他的問題比較複雜一些但是他的這個每天的運量接近70萬對國家來說這個運據大概是台灣目前最重要的所以這個重責大任好那我請鄭董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
206.521 |
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232.538 |
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這個聽到我們部長是這個整個重用啊那應該有重責大任那我覺得因為在台鐵啊我跟王一山委員我們都從桃園上車啦說真的你們對台鐵基本上也是比較肯定不管你的企業文化包括服務的品質跟準點當然快速就不用講你們的準點等等的我覺得這個你過去在這個高鐵都做得還不錯那你現在把經驗帶過來咧這個帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
235.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
252.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我要提醒你一件事啦待會你再幫我做個結論就算你要帶進來那你可以把你的從這個台鐵高鐵的經驗帶到台鐵來但是台鐵有很多的不同我們先講很多的不同幾個最重要的不同很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
254.073 |
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272.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台鐵的高鐵的主要車型基本上就是一款然後新款是車進來它基本上它就是一款的一個車型然後速度什麼都一樣那到了台鐵公司大概超過20種類型的車型有快有慢有載人有載貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
273.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
300.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各式各樣的甚至有觀光的完全不同的速度它的功能所以這個部分是這是台鐵公司不一樣的地方第二個戰術你因為每一個戰術你都會有一個站長你知道地方這個人事管理負以重責大任他在地方的這個諸侯他到底有沒有這個能力啊還是像台北車站我不知道為什麼會有這麼激動的員工我覺得你知道我在講什麼嗎我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們現在就是這個游遊卡怎麼弄那個我覺得好可怕喔那我這個不是重點有點歇斯底里啊為什麼這樣的人才在第一線我覺得很怪因為有些不適合第一線的也沒有問題嘛他可以把它放在比較幕僚的一個單位所以這個部分12站這是高鐵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
323.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
346.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
台鐵有242站 哇 將近超過20倍而且呢AAPC各種級的站完全不一樣所以我們希望真的提醒你然後平交道的數量 簡單來說高鐵就像如果說我們在 它是一個管制的道路不是地下化 就是高價化它基本上是一個管制的領域上在那邊開 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
347.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以除了那種很怪的事件發生之外它大概是一個封閉型的一個區塊可是你現在在換道了換道的一個是平交道全台灣有415個平交道有人會經過 有車會經過這不一樣的我希望你這邊把好的經驗 企業文化帶過來你要馬上知道有什麼不一樣那營業里程當然也差很多啦而且因為里程差很多的話代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
375.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個有些在山上地質有地震帶這個都是高鐵沒有的所以員工數大概也將近四倍你說一下好不好其實你在這裡有很多豐富的一個經驗但在台鐵又很多不一樣你大概有沒有一個重點說一下基本上我想到高鐵這邊到台鐵這邊最重要還是要讓安全還有準點 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
401.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還有辯解這個事情你所需要的我們趕快做那安全裡面我們現在希望的是說現在譬如說我們去年發生了異常事件總共九百幾十一件我怎麼樣把這個九百一千分門背壘的然後能夠把它當下來我想這個是很重要就是對安全那這又怎麼樣呢譬如說這裡面剛才委員提到了這麼多的人你怎麼去我們現在分成 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
北 中 南 東四個區那這四區裡面我們裡面都有運物 有公務 有機務那這些人怎麼樣整合配合我們的運物配合我們的整個車輛我們整個台鐵裡面我們有三大主軸我們從七堵到潮州這西部走廊一條線然後我們又有南回從我們的左營到台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
480.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那就是北回我們有從這個樹林一直到宜蘭花蓮到台東那這三個大動脈再加上一個很重要的我們現在在推展的區域的這個從台中到台北那這一部分的話那這個部分我們要用什麼車要花多少班次我們會用我們的這個OD pair好 曾董曾董今天你的報告我有從頭到尾從頭到尾我是真的給你建議有些不同的部分但是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你也知道人對了事情大概就對了七八成那現在的狀況剛剛看到最後這個高鐵大概4800多人大概人數到了台鐵人數大概將近四倍那這四倍不是數字的差別是裡面企業文化完全不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
522.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一千一萬五千多人從公務體系移過去的就傳統的公務文化從選才育才用才留才你們是從民生企業的概念高鐵公司這裡完全不一樣現在移過去而且他高層的主管全部都是以前的公務人員好啦這是你要面對的挑戰接下來我們這個請石董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
525.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
553.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這樣的這個高鐵公司一位正好鄭董事長也在這這個台灣高鐵今年的營運旅客人數跟營運的績效我覺得大家都講KPI我們做了多少努力最後不是在顯示在你的本業上面有多少人來坐車了有沒有增加有沒有減少他的營業額到底有沒有增加我覺得這個東西是一個指標性的這個部分那部長也在這裡部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
553.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在這些年限中間其實你最多的時間是在做台中市議員所以我們在討論這個脈絡的時候我要跟董事長跟部長特別說因為鄭光英董事長不用說了他是經歷這十幾年的人各位看到104年105年因為奇怪他的人次向下面看才五千多萬人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
605.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
為什麼它的營業額這麼高因為那一年進行財改政府又投資了300億進來很多的業外收入在這邊呈現其他的部分都是跟旅客人數來成長所以經過了他們經過了大概104年、105年的一個大財改財務危機也謝謝當時這個我想你們後段都有參加那在整個經歷第二個經歷了疫情的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
635.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以在很多的這個部分是他們的成績單先講他們這個整個拼了十幾年的成績單有沒有成果成果就是旅客比一百零三年增加百分之六三從四千八百零二萬到去年的七千八百多萬我覺得肯定我肯定那誰知的他的營業收入也增加了那我就想請教這個直接是施董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
636.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
654.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那你要在這個基礎上在這個肩膀上你還往哪去你主要的方向是什麼 重點好 謝謝委員非常精闢的分析我想做一個公司他每年當然對他的這個旅客的成長都是有預估的那我們像我們今年來講我們當然是因為疫情爆發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
655.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
671.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
之後我剛剛也報告裡面有講說它爆發的成長率有6% 7%但是到今年我們的預估的成長率是3點多所以它確實是有一個疫情之後爆發的趨緩所以你的特長可以帶來什麼可以帶來什麼成長你可以注入什麼因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
697.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是 我想整體的綜合性的行政管理是接下來高鐵未來兩年我們在面對新車上路之前一個很重要的一個工作因為其實新車上路不只是行控系統的提升我們後勤 檢修 維修等體都要相關搭配我想這個是一個蠻龐大的工程才能夠讓它如期如止的上路而新車的加入才會是高鐵新的一個階段的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
699.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
老師 董事長你講這個的剛剛講了這幾個項目剛好都不是部長在透過了媒體電視來說你的特長的這個部分他已經說其實公務背景就有總經理來挺然後大概你就主要行銷方面很多的一個文化行銷特色你剛剛沒有講這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
739.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我只是跟你建議啊如果這個沒有變成KPI值就是弄完之後明年還比較少了這是我們檢驗你我們先未來檢驗你這個方向在這裡因為畢竟不是我一位委員說包括天下雜誌很多媒體很多民眾甚至交通業的軌道的一個專家都在擔心一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
740.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
763.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在過去你的整個從政的一個經歷至少八到九成是文科的啦跟公務的接觸比較少一點看過你做過新聞處長文化這個局長也做過文化部長很多這個部分我們知道文化類你是很強我們也希望你注入這個讓高鐵透過這個領域再往上面成長這個是大家的擔心但是我要提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
764.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那這個部長你來回答一下好不好你說重用鄭董事長其實鄭董事長說真的為了國家可能付出一輩子就是我一毛錢不要也可以我也聽過這樣的人可是你知道嗎在這個社會去評價一個人尤其在公務體系的時候有很多包括成就感我理解包括頭銜 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
802.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是薪水你知道嗎是他他老婆最care的他家庭很care我覺得這是一個指標嘛剛剛講了這麼多比較沒有經驗的來去努力一下但非常努力的結果現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
828.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
平均的月薪我們是拿江董事長過去8年包括疫情時間可以領到660萬所以最低55萬月薪加獎金因為我們儲蓄總署也是這樣的規劃所以儲蓄總署每年公布什麼最低薪資5萬我們都嚇一跳他是不管把夯不啷噹全部弄在一起你現在直接如果沒有修改任何一個規定的話大概可以領到50到70萬看當年的一個業績 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
833.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
849.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
但是可以很明確的台鐵董事長台鐵董事長因為兩邊都是我們都有看到你們一個報表他大概就22萬到25萬所以說現在兩個董事長你重責大任重用他重用他的薪水大概降2.5倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
850.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
868.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
大概兩倍以上那所以我也不要比這個誰好誰壞你知道嗎我是不是能夠你們告訴我你告訴我你拿這麼多錢這麼多的一個金額我為什麼肯定之前江董跟我們鄭總為什麼你拼了十年我看到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
869.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
891.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
他從4800多萬人一年拚到了7000我肯定嘛你有拚起來所以你今天來要把過去10年每一年可以多頂幾百萬的業績獎金你要順便拿到口袋走的時候你要告訴我你要告訴我這兩個KPI你要把高鐵公司帶到哪裡去如果都沒有都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
892.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
917.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
都沒有我跟你講這個部長如果都沒有如果都沒有的話到最後壓力就你們了所以我想石董事長是不是這樣好不好你能不能回去考慮一下直接承諾一下啦人剛到先生入學你如果光領董事長的薪資啊也高於這個高於那個台鐵董事長就是說今年的獎金都不領好不好好好做 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
918.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
940.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們在這個基礎上面 成績單出來只要有超過一個人你再來領 今天不知道王委員會不會見總是要拚出來嘛 這個可不可以啊要不要期許一下不要 我要他講啦 給他講我還是給他講 石董是吧可不可以 這個今年的獎金不領可不可以因為你才剛上任嘛 大家質疑你標準都一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
946.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
969.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
來 謝謝委員我想有關於KPI的部分交通部事實上對於交通部所屬的事業單位都有訂定PAPI也是依照這個KPI來決定績效獎金發放的等級剛剛您上面的數字應該不是交通部現在核定的這個薪資酬勞的金額所以我想這個資資本來就因為你現在薪資核定的金額一個月多少坦白講應該是不到40萬不到40萬獎金咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
973.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
992.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
獎金就是要依照年終的這個來報來看啦我跟你講上面你寫那麼清楚了嗎 還要倒回來看嗎薪資加獎金嘛 加獎金嘛那你獎金是不是過去拚的因為人次以營業額來算這是過去別人拚了十年的結果 拚的人就在你左後方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
993.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1015.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
就在你左後方啊你要不要獎金先不領嘛拚一年再說嘛夠小卡好嘛就這樣而已啊那一個月40萬還不夠嗎一定的規定都是照規定在走的我知道啦他是上市櫃公司我知道啦他有一定的公司你不要說我沒有經驗一站就是站一個月領50萬60萬的嘛你讓民眾啊我跟你講我今天講不是我的問題你們自己去好好考謝謝 |