| IVOD_ID |
162825 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162825 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-25T09:36:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-25T09:53:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f58ea8a87bb0a2ad86137b1f10ec760e8b0e579ccbb426f198314697a4fd0cd6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:36:15 - 09:53:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長、交通部鐵道局局長、交通部觀光署署長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長率所屬相關單位列席就「交通部觀光署、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司人事調整及新任首長之業務展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【若開會當日交通部觀光署新任署長尚未就任，該署部分另擇期排案】） |
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謝謝主席 有請部長台鐵政董事長 高鐵石澤董事長政董事長 高鐵石董事長三位好 時間的關係不一一問候 首先請教石澤董事長今天所提出來的書面報告 特別點出來了 |
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35.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
2024年相較到2023年的營收從531.9億然後從2023年的498.1億成長到2024年的531.9億成長幅度約74%上升6.8%啦那請教一下石油董事長2023年跟2024年就營業費用的部分成長了幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
79.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
也成長了差不多這個超過這個數字大概營業費用的成本大概墊高了50億左右但是這個當中其實是因為我們有一個跟交通部之間的平台不好意思我問問題很具體的那個成本跟費用是兩回事你知道吧你有沒有看過財報這個是基本的財塊吧剛剛我講的是營業費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
營業費用成長了幾%你知不知道營業費用大概成長了大概在5%之內錯營業費用2023年166億2024年186億成長12%營收6.8%營業費用成長了12%理由是什麼我想我們相關的攤提跟人事費用都有在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
114.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
138.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我這樣具體的講啊外界對你上任事實上你有沒有交通專業有人幫你緩假你有沒有經營專業啊現在考驗正在開始對自己的業務要守對自己的業務要守當然是2024年跟2023年啊最後稅前的經歷相差多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
140.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
到2024年大概稅前淨利已經降到70億下大概68億左右有稍微減少的十幾億稅前淨利稅前的話當然我剛講的是稅後那稅前的話大概是這個這個是從78億降到64.5億稅前淨利 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
159.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
稅前淨利2023年97億對這是稅前我剛剛講2024年80億為什麼2024年營收增加稅前淨利反而降低我剛剛特別講了就是說關於營業的成本以及這個相關攤體的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就最後啦業務內的收入事實上是增加的問題出在業務外的收入跟支出你可能回去再把高鐵的財務狀況好好看清楚今天只是測試ABC啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我必須要說今天的測試顯然你對於高鐵的業務要掌握還有很長一段路要走我今天所講的數字所有的公民都可以上高鐵的財報去check看我講的對不對好來請台鐵董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
委員好 董事長好 辛苦喔從高鐵董事長變台鐵董事長 責任更重做大事不是做大官 你這樣的精神我非常佩服今天我代讀你的報告 上面寫說你要貫徹當責文化我看了這四個字 我非常非常的欣賞為什麼我說 企業文化本來就要成敗有責嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
誰搞的爛攤子誰負責嘛做的好的就要獎勵嘛董事長 贊不贊成就是這樣就是這樣嘛 好來我帶董事長看你接下來收拾哪些爛攤子台鐵三千型至強號新的車子啊不曉得哪裡去設計這個爛椅子啊都新的椅子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
站在旁邊的陳士凱部長也承認這個椅子爛到爆確實要改進改進這個椅子花一億八千四百五十萬來董事長請教依照你當責文化的精神這件事情誰要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想這個我們當然這個我們看當時我們發包的這個情況那看到廠商交給我們的那是不是按照我們當時廠商交給我們的就是按照我們當初設計的是所以那個問題來了這個爛椅子當初是誰訂的按照您所講的當者文化的精神這件事要不要究責 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們再繼續來瞭解一下需要多久你剛上任我給你多一點的時間兩個月之內去瞭解發生了什麼事誰應該負責任一億八千四百五十萬誰要負責可以嗎 兩個月夠不夠好 謝謝董事今天第一次第一次我都是很溫暖的我幫你把問題都整理出來讓董事長可以回去掌握狀況第二件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
當哲文化為什麼重要台鐵過去所出現的狀況就是有不肖的商人跟政客結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
政客帶著不肖的廠商跑去台鐵沒有專業做業務指導說要做這個要做那個結果呢結果台鐵要搞一個列控4.0列控4.0花了納稅人六千萬一事無成一敗塗地 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
367.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一次五成一敗塗地啊我直接問運安會啊這個列控4.0到底能用不能用啊運安會主委在交通委員會很誠實的打槍啊這根本不能用啊根本不能用那問題來啦當初大官帶著不銷廠商去台鐵直接強加在台鐵身上搞這個列控4.0來 董事長你認為還要再繼續搞下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員報告這個事情我們會持續在我們公司內部的安全委員會檢討需要多久兩個月好不好兩個月可以好可以一樣這件事情我給你兩個月錯了就認錯不要為了掩飾過去的錯誤還要再砸更多的錢頭一個不孝廠商造成台灣多少傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不是只有台鐵是受害人啊那台南搞那個自駕系統爛到爆一樣不能用丟了好幾千萬下去你石頭丟到水裡還有一身啊那個是幾千萬砸下去什麼都沒有同一個劣質廠商連我們淘機都得標現在搞到都解約啦部長站在旁邊啦應該很清楚我在說什麼講了好幾次啦台鐵當著文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
成敗要有責第三個矽科站矽科站很長矽科站中站出口工程之前發包我把整個歷程調出來 這個可能是部長要回答的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
491.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
結果本來預定2025年5月要竣工現在是2025年的6月原定2025年5月要竣工現在2025年6月部長知不知道工程進度多少工程進度非常緩慢因為當時的廠商他做不了所以解約那解約該罰款我們也有罰款非常好這個就是我要提醒的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本來矽科站很長嘛有去過矽子然後在矽子那邊矽科站上下的居民大家感受都很深嘛那好不容易有這個經費做這個事情本來現在要竣工了搞到現在進度只有百分之1.8不是18是1.8看了這個歷程我就覺得很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
528.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們的鐵道局開工凍土典禮是2023年12月8號開工凍土典禮當然就是政商名流大家拍照結果搞到後來是什麼結果搞到後來是那個廠商說我自己能力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
529.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我能力不足我第一次看到一個廠商講話這麼直白我能力不足我沒有辦法做他能力不足沒有辦法做 當初是怎麼給他得標的這個事情有回去了解嗎這個當初到底怎麼搞的 太離譜了啊這個廠商自我坦白 我能力不足 我做不下去了當初怎麼給他得標的 這個事情哲烈要不要追究 部長這個我們會去了解需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你不是新手啦所以給你一個月了解責任一個月沒有問題可以嗎可以啊沒有問題再來台鐵遮斷器這我質詢過非常多次從去年到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
從花東到彰化影響到非常多人的交通安全故障的次數高到嚇死人200多次來我們來review一下從我去年開始關心這件事情到現在你知道從去年到現在多裝了幾套遮斷器嗎跟委員報告這個案子到目前我們到4月點已經完成安裝了300 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
406套是是是這個我知道這個數字那個董事長你看PPT那個你前面有螢幕我有可能整理的比你還完整你直接看我的PPT就好了上面的數字不會錯了解一下去年9月喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
638.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
到現在他已經遲延非常久了遲延非常久是累積的問題那我關心的是我從去年9月到現在裝了幾套多裝了14套從396套到406套然後目前為止裝設進度只有到29%下一個問題我有這個事情牽涉到行人的交通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們國家花大錢砸了好幾億下去搞這個東西結果一樣我們的招標系統很奇怪專門都找到那種沒有能力的專業性不夠的劣質廠商交通部送來交通委員會的解凍報告部長你應該還記得你說解凍報告說這個遮斷器的電源改善系統什麼時候要完成改善是11月要完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
697.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我應該沒寫錯嘛你知道現在11月可以完成嗎這個部分可以完成可以確定可以來來來來來交通部電源改善工程採購履約期間要到2026年10月27號所以是這個公告有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
700.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我看到這個採購的公告履約的期間我嚇一跳交通部送給交通委員的報告是今年11月要完成啊這個履約期間是到2026年11月27號這怎麼回事這是什麼不對勁 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
差一檔餒委員來請總經理來跟您報告好嗎可以報告委員 那委員關切的事項主要是因為我們老舊電源要改善是 我了解CMT案跟另外額外還有發包兩個案在進行是 所以呢 到底什麼時候要完成11月是我們CMT原來就已經在進行的部分會完成那我們新發包的要到明年的對嘛這個時間你們送給國會的報告齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
775.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不要在那邊遮遮掩掩你隨便送給交通委員會一個唬爛的解凍報告告訴交通委員會的委員11月會完成時間會到歷史會檢驗嘛我光看你們這個公告今年11月就不會完成啊報告委員這是兩個案子啊是這上面寫的是第一個案子第一個案子我們在11月會完成這個沒有問題那第二個案子會比較後面對嘛但我現在的重點是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
776.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
804.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我現在的重點是這個丟了好幾億下去的公司的工程早就該完成了嘛我們現在處於delay的狀態我為什麼會關心他什麼時候該完成鐵路停交道耶這牽涉到每一個行人的生命耶這不是開玩笑的事耶我為什麼會定這個事如果現在的系統是安全的那我們根本就不用花錢去搞這件事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
805.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
811.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
就是不安全才花錢去搞嘛不安全花錢去搞 錢砸下去了 到目前為止呢到目前為止不斷的延宕你們都不會擔心喔還是我一個人在起顏悠天你們都不會擔心喔報告委員 這個在改善當中在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
830.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
849.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
最後一個問題這個案子我一直追我覺得莫名其妙這個廠商敢包這個標道的遮斷器他有能力做嗎怎麼會得標了以後在那邊怪東怪西我的產品有問題是因為電源什麼電源有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
851.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
874.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
然後要我們國家再幫這個廠商出一大筆錢再去改善這個電源供應系統整件事情啊讓我覺得莫名其妙但是當我發現莫名其妙的時候我一定會開始追我開始追我就發現了說有關於新版遮斷器的動作電流 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
876.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
896.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他說呢本來2020年9月核定的遮斷器規範當中裡面是有要求的但是呢後來經廠商反應後檢討在同年12月也就是2020年12月修訂進版的時候取消 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
897.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
922.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
電流限制取消電流限制是什麼就是讓這個廠商本來沒這個能力的沒有辦法來投變成有辦法來投這個是幫這個沒有能力的廠商量身打造再改標案規格嗎來請教部長是委員長部長他這個取消的過程是要不要請總經理他比較了解整個好可以來請總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
923.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
949.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
包委員 這個我們內部也有進行調查然後呢 調查結果呢對 我們現在目前是主要是在我們這段期在公約的過程中廠商有反映說這個電源限制的部分因應現在目前功能提升可以做取消不過在後面廠商提出來的一個產品它還是符合我們規範裡面的一個安培數的這個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
950.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
974.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那現在這個案子如果符合規範的話我們還要幫他砸錢幫廠商改善電流供應報委員主要是因為現在目前是我們的電源老舊它不穩定所以我們需要去做改善讓這個遮斷機運作能夠正常更穩定所以呢我們的電源老舊是現在才發現還是當初他投票就知道我們在過程中發現這樣的一個課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
977.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1003.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我這樣子講好了啦剛剛你說你們這件事情有進行內部調查嗎有調查報告嗎我們也已經有初步的這個調查報告可以送來嗎可以啊今天下班以前把調查報告送來這件事情我一定追到底啊改標案規格讓他進來投得標了以後再抱怨電流系統有問題政府再幫他出錢改我們的政府很有錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1005.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1024.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
對這種無能不孝的廠商啊特別的溫柔啊反正花的又不是自己的錢全部花納稅的錢可以這樣搞喔今天下班以前把報告送來可以嗎可以幫委員我們先前也有把我們調查的資料有提供給委員參考沒有關係下班以前調查報告送來好好 |