| IVOD_ID |
162774 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162774 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-23T10:50:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-23T11:05:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b58c4cf52db2e91a849b7bfdee90f7ccb9483b76f331b600da6ae3643212cc5f9aab6c45daf424f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:50:45 - 11:05:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
（一）委員劉建國等17人擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。
（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
委員許宇甄等18人、委員邱鎮軍等19人、委員林月琴等17人、委員陳菁徽等18人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員范雲等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11006882號】、委員魯明哲等19人、委員傅崐萁等24人、委員洪孟楷等17人、委員邱若華等17人【提案第11010755號】分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第五十三條條文修正草案」等11案。
三、審查
（一）委員范雲等17人、委員何欣純等17人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員羅美玲等16人、委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」等7案。
（二）委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。
（八）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。
（九）委員柯志恩等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案。
（十）委員馬文君等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。
（十一）委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案。
（十二）委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。
（十三）委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。
（十四）委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
（十五）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
（十六）委員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
（十七）委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。
【第一案至第三案採綜合詢答；本日僅處理第一案及第二案。】
【6月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.069 |
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7.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席,我請部長跟次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天這簡單要用兩條第一條就是平健制度的老人福利法48條另外一個是實境障礙者保障法53條就是不愛做我很詳細的聽每一位委員部長本身也當過召委都知道我先問 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
50.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你老了,你會想住安養院嗎?市長你有想要住嗎?我才一陣子沒去想到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
57.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我覺得醫療人員好像沒有什麼退休年齡我事實上我這幾年從第八屆、第九屆、第十屆、現在十一屆第八屆我們先搞那個長照服務法到現在我跑北歐跑哪裡都看了我總歸一個結論日本比較跟我們比較貼切所以日本這個制度比較貼切那北歐那是看送的而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
111.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為要吃大菜之類的我跟部長講我們看了日本名古屋到處看也跟他們詳細討論現在日本的安養院像我們去看八王子區看哪裡有其中一家就是差不多差不多,裡面蠻溫馨的硬體設備也不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他們的私人房他們借物保險在我看的時候就已經一年借物保險的費用就10兆日幣10兆日幣喔,這合台幣也多少那日本政府挨挨救啊從安倍的時代就想把借物保險跟醫療保險把它mix在一起結果搞到現在好像也沒有,還是分開那是怎樣?你覺得有什麼原因? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
因為兩個姓氏不一樣他們的四人房,我看那間是他的床位有三百七十幾床然後有一個醫師,退休的醫師就來這邊當院民 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
181.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請說要當住院的醫生那他住不用錢還可以拿一點薪水那裡面的護理師也是一樣退休之後就住在那邊當院民要順便當護理師我覺得這個很好這個老的 照顧更老的我們現在就是在推這個嘛儲存時數等等那都很難 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
205.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這裏的護理師老,就直接做,做到不做,我覺得這樣很好,我們大陸可能搞不好會這樣啦,我也要把我們屏東那裏的護理師,或是醫生、衛生所退休,我說你們倆要怎麼辦?公共醫師要遵守H65,所以退休,隔天就在我們法人上班了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那護理師也是一樣的退休之後就在那邊有的當志工有的當那個在廠商在那邊做我覺得布朗的話你找不到人啦所以布朗這個是可以考量的那他們的私人房一年的一個月差不多合台幣差不多三萬六三萬七差不多啊沒差不多啊那兩人房差不多五萬二左右我都講台幣齁那單人房 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
234.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
7萬多塊政府付的差不多3萬多塊這樣如果去看歐洲不可能的事情我跟你講赫爾辛基在芬蘭我們去看還有去瑞典瑞典首都那個叫什麼斯德哥摩 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
263.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你知道那個安養院 安養院喔他一個月政府付給那個業者一個月一個人 付差不多24萬台幣一個月喔然後如果是精神科的那些不處理是這樣一個月付35萬台幣給吼 我說我們的安養機構如果一個月付25萬 我大家都叫爸爸大家都這樣吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不可能我們付不起嘛,因為所得稅60%所得稅所以我們要去學費,那個是亂搞啦,不要講那個那現在回到日本這邊他的住宿機構提供的房數也差不多三成而已那間三百多層的安養機構,外面白堆買一百,八百多 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
死一個補一個,死一個補一個所以人家老人家,我在民國有看,都在家比較多因為冬天他們又冷,那他們的日本人的習性跟我們台灣人又不太一樣台灣人的嘻嘻嘩嘩,老人家說我唱歌跳舞,我唱什麼比較不會失智啊,對不對?那不是啊,都一口吐一口大吐,看電視死在家裡面,五天,沒人知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
337.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以他們的社工雜貨都一直在卡電話而已,他們都外面不想出來,所以他們的時薪跟我們看不一樣所以長壽,然後又不喜歡出來,又天氣又冷所以我們台灣這個是蠻適合,我們老人會要叫他們出來啊,我覺得那個都非常好但是咧,我們的長照機構,大陸人第一次一個月補六千、八千、補一萬嘛,現在一萬嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
387.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
要一個要三萬多塊你補一萬所以你的費用是遠遠不足啦所以團團王一鳴在說你現在那個規模是太少了啦所以如果長照保險在第八屆我們我跟那個劉建國王一鳴我們都努力過但是那個時候有反對所以那個推不過那現在應該如果他的規模越來越長到3.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
405.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
規模越大事實上是要考量今天這個老人福利法這個評鑑制度因為很多來陳情我想每個人都談過了我也在開過協調會醫院評鑑以前也是優等特優、優等、合格、不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
413.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不然就改成合格不合格這樣比較簡單啦你常常在這裡熬午飯吃一餅丁又休等那個是以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
453.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
該換 護理事項的評鑑也是用合格不合格還是兩套標準現在是怎樣 市長感受一下來 那個委員報告啦 我也知道現在大家都覺得說這樣一國多製 我的委員報告所以我們現在提出的就是說我們現在就是全部一致就把它區分成合格跟不合格我們就不區分成甲乙丙丁我們就是在這個部分我們來來朝這個方 我們就是確定啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
也確定啦那就是用這個方向 這樣比較簡單 你像說他的簡單易行 這樣讓大家好做事情來時間用來好好照顧我們的東北 這樣比較重要對啦 對啦 這樣就 感謝 謝謝再來就是這個身心障礙者保護保障法這個不愛做這個 現在要開始優先做 董隊你還有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這以前我們在武衛村,我們是10%一個車廂裡面要10%現在不然又提高到20%15%喔?我每天都在坐高鐵,我每天通勤的那高鐵剛才沒人坐,沒有要坐的人沒人坐,大家拍攝就去坐所以有時候年輕人坐在裡面,老的來,他老的不要老的,要幫忙怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
常常看到糾紛,所以你現在該做什麼?Priority Seat,優先洗優先洗,就是說反應的什麼都可以嘛就是說有需要的啦,按照有需要的,有的人表面上看好好,其實他是生病的啦,會有慢性病的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
548.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席不要煩惱,今天這兩條,簡單啦其他的骨肉骨粟的不用我請罵啦有什麼請助理請什麼,那比較有課稅啦那要花錢啦,市長、部長,那要花很多錢我們會站在人民的需求上為最高點然後整個國家的一個財政...你現在住在那個機構安養的,現在有10萬床 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
551.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那十萬床如果一個月補一萬塊,現在如果叫你補兩萬塊,你就倒了就幾十億了,所以我們要量力而為啦好,最後一個問題我要問你,失智現在這兩天有夠嚴重,我自己的表姐、三個都一直下去現在65歲,以上失智的有35萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
65%是PRECIS,DEMENTIA,超過了多少?有65%是對的?15%我們早期15%,所以委員關心的是失智症的新藥液體 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
65歲以上比較Dementia65歲以下是Prescina我講的沒錯吧Prescina有多少人這裡35萬 這裡呢跟65歲以上比起來大概15-20%以台灣的數據所以就是35萬就乘以15-20%所以早發性的差不多也有7-8萬人那是很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
624.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那你現在這個藥用打的開始打了 智慧這個藥是用每個禮拜打還是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
632.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
660.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告這個藥在美國是去年7月才上市那目前是這個我都在做精準的評估那台灣大概是今天在亞東醫院會開打還是用自費來做那它是需要在失智症的非常早期這是第一個條件第二個條件是說它的那個Apple E4必須要陰性因為如果是Apple E陽性的話它比較容易腦水腫那第三個部分是財務評估我們時事處長已經對外講了所以這個部分要啟動這個HDA來做評估那是每個月打一次還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
685.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
目前有兩個藥提出申請因為我不能透露是哪個藥那其中一種藥是每個月打那後續還要追蹤MRI看他那個Amyloid的這個Plague他有沒有清楚就是那個類蛋白的這個堆積堆積有沒有清楚以上沒有清楚所以有的一個月打一次有的是打一支冬季的藥對有兩週的有一個月的但是因為我 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
691.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
703.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為我不能透露是哪一個有申請 抱歉沒關係啦 我們人苦事要人來做我覺得我在看我們這些親戚還有我們看到這個林院長林院長第八屆的時候站在那邊被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
705.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我就看他比較內向,跟他很熟,你也很熟靈智營我更熟,我也是這個靈智營就比較厲害靈智營是點柱柱所以我看內向的人,精神科內向的人比較會中點柱柱的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
749.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
每天花謝罵人的人,我看待會兒目前的研究,人格特質跟失智症的發生比較沒有關係,跟基因跟環境後天生活習慣關係性比較大,以上補充所以是類蛋白的堆積,AMLOID的堆積在涅涅的地方,是不是?目前兩個學理論,一個是AMLOID的堆積就類蛋白,另外一個是Tau protein的堆積,那目前兩個理論都有在用,兩個都有藥物研發,以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
750.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
777.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以你這個藥是要清除那個類蛋白在腦部的堆積現在是這樣嗎?是所以喔好那要做基因的類型什麼藥嗎?是要做基因的檢測主要是為了副作用擔心他這個藥物引起的腦水腫那目前美國的研究是有33%所以排除了那個相關的基因型他腦水腫的副作用會比較小主要是為了病人安全以上補充所以我覺得每一個人都要保持頭腦動一動 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
779.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
801.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
打麻將啦,找人吵架啦,這個也是有效,所以普通話,每天找你學妹,你就不會好歹啦這個很嚴重,我覺得非常非常嚴重,太多啦有的是輕輕的,有的是越來越嚴重,所以看了都很怕,所以這個要出來真的是福音啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
802.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
828.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
智慧 健保不給物 柏定首先我們要評估他本土的資料這個也很重要 我想因為我們要驗證他的效果然後再評估一個財務的benefit跟burden這樣子就是利弊得失那我覺得照顧失智我們要多元化 趙偉你說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
830.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
844.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
腦筋要多動多運動要瘦薄一點營養精衡可能這個都是可以預防的那政府在這個部分不管是在工廠中心據點那這個部分都有都已經有準備其實那一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
846.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
873.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你做專研會 意思說專研會是我們辦很多長照開始訓練 人臉訓練所以那個時候的題目就叫做失智的一個計畫表示一日十當中我們就要去關心未來的照顧但是那是後面 我個人覺得怎麼樣早期來診斷 早期來預防可能也是一個重點 跟趙偉的意見一樣好 我們大家一起努力啦 謝謝感謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
876.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
876.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 謝謝 |