| IVOD_ID |
162654 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162654 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T12:44:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T12:52:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5617cf280bc2552a7b1d424589ff21dc0c7c4ba622572b97a48dd392130a6736efbef1088df2b8325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃健豪 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:44:34 - 12:52:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查「住宅法」修正草案等38案，詳見議事日程。【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第(二十一)案至第(三十八)案提案條文，第(三十八)案如經院會復議則不予審查。】【6月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
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好謝謝主席主席我們請劉部長跟我們吳署長劉部長吳署長有請部長好署長好今天我想這個主題是討論公寓大廈這個公設點交的部分本席首先肯定你們點出問題包含說什麼問題包含說保固的範圍起算的時間跟初始管會操作但是我要講的是說這些確實都是在地方上民眾或是民意代表常遵守到的層級 |
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因為保固的範圍哪些是保固然後起算時間到底是典交後起算還是要施工完成後起算這好像都是民法之間的這個爭點在自己去協調那還有管委會操作因為有時候典交的時候來的公證人實務上來講啦這公證人到底怎麼找很多時候是建商推薦的或是這個房仲推薦的管委會根本無能為力那第一屆管委會通常又是建商輔導成立的所以很快的典交就完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
84.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以這些都是實務上面對的問題,那也就是因為這個實務上你們點出來的問題,所以導致社區公益大廈有很多的爭議,後續有很多點交要保固會有爭議,那我先講說今天這份專案報告你們點出了問題,但是不好意思喔,看不到怎麼解決部長,署長,這個要怎麼解決,就是到底要怎麼辦,包含說點起算時間,比如說保固的起算時間,要不要乾脆你們定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
110.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
明確一點就是說就是什麼時候開始算而不是讓建商跟住戶然後加上這個公證人所謂公證人帶他去協調因為我想住戶相對啦在這個整個案子裡面他相對弱勢因為他又卡著一件事情就是如果我點交沒有完成我後續你們也講到了嘛後續的這共用的這個共用經濟他沒辦法使用所以第一屆主委他的壓力很大他好像我不點交不行但如果我點交不確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
137.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
到時候後面住戶會罵我所以這個問題我想問一下我們擔心政府到底要怎麼去解決實務上行政上有沒有辦法定更明確的規範而不是讓他們自己去協調而已感謝委員因為的確這個所謂的點交的時間還有這個保固的起算點我們在過程當中當然這涉及到雙方契約的這個雙方契約的簽訂那事實上實務上各自有各自的優缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
153.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那有了完工起算的時候那就會卡在你的點交如果拖太久保固就會保固期很快就會削減掉了那如果要等到點交後才開始起算那有些又會涉及到點交的過程當中如果不夠確實那會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
後面的這個基金會提早動之所以這一點為什麼在過去都會建議在還是在雙方的合約裡面去所謂訂定或是他到最後沒有辦法要走到消保那一段才去所以也跟我們報告光這一個我們就不太認為他應該在法規因為法規明定都會有各自的優缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
200.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這是第一個啦第二個就是說點交的項目現在的狀況也是在於說現行的建築法規我們規定的項目事實上大家都確認可以但是很多在點交的過程當中是因為法規外的項目也會被要求要點交那點交的品質怎麼去確認這個部分就會流於在合約還有跟消費者爭議之間的一個差異所以為什麼說像要修這個部分可能是包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
201.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
225.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國路署跟地政司甚至跟消保處都要去討論在這些內容裡面有哪一些是具體可以執行或哪些還是要尋後續的協調跟這個爭議的處理或是真正民法訴訟才能處理署長我跟你報告我跟你說就其實地方上去打民法訴訟會找消保官有時候緩不及急那我今天為什麼要提不提出來既然你們都提了這個所謂的專案報告有點出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
226.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那也要講一下其實這幾年的狀態尤其是疫情之後期間到現在第一個房地產的價值提升非常非常多那隱身的消費糾紛我覺得也比疫情前多很多還有因為房價提升所以現在多數的消費者他反而他只能去買所謂的社區公寓大廈他的總價 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
268.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他能夠負擔的總價他基本上現在都都在這個公寓大廈裡面所以他的過去可能可能20年30年沒有這麼多問題但這兩三年內這是我體感的但我不知道你們有沒有證實的數據啦這個體感感受數據是非常明確嘛其實委員講到一個重點就是老舊公寓的部分有一部分是因為我們這幾年開始要求成立管理組織就會開始產生這些點交的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為過去他可能二三十年沒有去處理這些公設點交但是因為我們要求成立了以後他開始去重視我想這是一個好的起點開始去重視這些議題那當然現在地方政府是希望說我們是不是可以延長一下輔導期讓他們有多一點時間去協調去緩衝這個部分我們會來研議因為八樓以下看起來問題已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
295.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
比較明顯啦 就是那種老舊公寓的這一個老舊公寓的問題那這個我們會來研究再找這個地方政府再溝通一下看看輔導期的延長第二個能不能再放寬一點規定讓它不一定要完全一個管理組織非常完整的那有一些管理組織甚至只要有負責人有一些架構就可以了要不然否則一般要成立到很完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
組織的確會很難這個部分我會來研議好謝謝署長那最後有點時間抱歉只有一分鐘這個剛剛大概很多委員都討論到我們今年特別提到說因為財務法的修正所以可能租金補貼等等會受到影響那我提供一個思考方向啦當然錢都是固定的只是中央地方的問題我想整體的對人民來講我講的稅是沒什麼影響反正大家講的稅都照樣講那只是說到底中央怎麼分配跟地方政府拿到多少錢是分配的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
362.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我現在講的是說我想依據這個房屋合一稅的相關的這個基礎我幫大家找裁員嘛因為今天比如以今年為例我們今年的住宅基金的收入大約是500億啊那政府中央挹注400億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好那你今天提到說如果會沒有那麼多是不是是是我們都是靠撥補撥補多少錢撥補已經現在有兩百億啊今年預算多少錢今年預算撥補今年需要三百七十六億它差不多大約我說大概三百七十六億然後大概我說中央政府就是說行政的撥補會撥補到三百到四百億嘛對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那今天談的問題就是說 因為現在提到說可能要扣25%到所謂地方 要讓地方來分那25%就會回到110年以前的樣態 是我知道 就是因為這25%的數字 我跟你分享啦就是我看到這個房地合一稅的問題我想房地合一稅 法有明定喔 就是說每年不得低於10% |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
408.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那你這個400億,不然300億是400億就算我用400億高標來算,400億的百分之二數剛剛好就是100億那我去年房地合一稅收入1000億他的百分之十就是100億啊然後還有前年房地合一稅收入617億他的百分之十是60億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
前年在2022年的時候是553億房地合一歲他如果能夠撥補進來也是55億左右過去這些年房地合一歲有沒有如實的撥補到我們住宅基金裡面因為房地合一歲撥補到住宅基金是去年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是去年開始 那行政 我們當然也會爭取啦也會爭取這個比例可不可以再調高啦那當然這個就在院裡面還要再協調如果你們除了 當然開園的方式啦你除了找地方政府去開園之外喔我想有這麼龐大的一筆房地合約稅而且他們也名符其實嘛我各房地合約稅 我就是為了公平正義為了所謂住宅 這個居住正義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
啊我看到房地合一稅我的收入因抗這麼多那我能不能用在相關的政策上面這個是很直觀而且合理的方向啊所以希望內政部應該去想辦法去爭取讓房地合一稅更多的資金不低於百分之十的前提之下易住到住宅基金裡面啊我想這樣子你們的財政相對來講就會比之前寬裕很多吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個部分當然我們會跟院爭取每年都有爭取那這個部分都要看最後協調的結果好 謝謝署長 謝謝部長謝謝黃建豪委員的諮詢 |