| IVOD_ID |
162591 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162591 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T10:43:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T10:57:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5617cf280bc2552a45ea90e5bd358c0e086ae71f013336e0adf9c1769f7edb474a089865aff813835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:27 - 10:57:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、教育部部長、法務部矯正署署長、內政部警政署署長、勞動部、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「青少年刑案嫌疑人於2024年創歷年新高，達4.7萬餘人次，現行少年輔導、矯正效能，包括校園霸凌處理機制、高關懷學生、安置輔導、保護管束、感化教育、職能訓練、更生系統、中介轉銜機制、追蹤輔導、逆境社工等，及《少年事件處理法》『行政輔導先行』施行迄今近兩年，相關制度之檢討與策進」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月16日及18日兩天一次會】） |
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這個我直接知道一般我是很不喜歡在這邊談今天主席所設定的議題以外的話不過很抱歉我剛才在黃國昌委員在質詢的時候實在是不禁嘴角失守這個不太禮貌這個其實大家所提的就是一個很簡單的問題 |
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在這裡昨天黃國昌委員在本委員會公開播放的那個音檔到底是不是徵訊的音檔他就回答這個就好了講那麼多扯那麼多是如果是徵訊音檔那我們就要問你如何取得徵訊音檔的你在這邊公開播放徵訊音檔適當嗎如果不是那我們就要問這不就是腳尾犯嗎 |
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如果不是證據運檔 那你是自行製作的你是怎麼製作 用AI製作還是什麼 你是把這個講清楚就好 到底昨天播放的是不是證據運檔 |
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100.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你黃國昌講的義正嚴實在這裡講這些話你就回答大家對整個社會對你的質問你就回答啊你最愛講的所有台灣人民都看得很清楚啊所有台灣人民都在問啊問說黃國昌委員你昨天所公布的你在這邊公開播放的到底是不是徵訊應當你就回答這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
114 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
口口聲聲說民進黨以前怎麼樣 現在怎麼樣你現在去全台灣做民調 所有台灣人民都知道立場改變最多的人是誰不就是你黃國昌委員嗎抱歉啦 花了時間在那邊講這個題外話 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我今天很希望設定這個主題鎖定主題先等一下因為這個主題剛才我們召委也有做解釋但是我實在因為這個主題今天所設的包山包海說實在包山包海所以才會讓這麼多的部長次長大家全部各部會全部都來 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
150.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
162.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一開始我就看青少年處刑案,青少年不是法律用語,法律用語就是少年事件處理法,有青年基本法,但是它沒有青少年這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以這個讓我在資料調閱上面產生蠻大的困擾包括這邊所說的達4.7萬餘人剛才主席有修一個表但是我不曉得那個數字來源就是那個你所謂的少年跟非少年非少年是到幾歲為止作為非少年的犯罪到4.7萬我是做一個詢問那請認出的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為你這個題目你這個也沒有辦法聚焦現行少年輔導少年輔導這個是司法院矯正署教育部衛福部你這個有關於這個矯正效能矯正效能是這個矯正署校園霸凌這個就是教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
235.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
高關懷學生這個是教育部跟小政署安置輔導這個又是小政署保護管束這個又是司法院報告委員這個就是問題點了因為它散在各個部會所以你剛剛說的就是問題點我是覺得說如果能夠聚焦我們今天的主題就在於有關於高關懷學生的安置輔導那這很清楚我們就可以深入討論因為我這個真的是沒有辦法我會覺得說沒有辦法深入討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
238.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我現在就剩下我趕快因為這個還有很多勞動部教育部齁這個都都這個職能訓練啦這些全部都包山包海齁實在很難聚焦那現在我就一開始我就先聚焦在我剛剛所講的是不是應該是這個青少有關於青少年刑案嫌疑人現在唯一有在統計的應該是警政署了齁是不是請警政署長麻煩署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
委員長署長這個關於我們今天主題青少年刑案嫌疑人於2024年創歷史新高歷年新高達4.7萬餘人這個4.7萬餘人這個統計數字你能不能說明一下因為這個是你們在統計你能不能說明一下這個應該是青少年涵蓋到涵蓋少年的18歲以下的這個統計數字到哪裡到幾歲未滿18歲未滿18歲的未滿18歲的沒有到4.7萬人所以4.7萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
未滿18歲就到4.7萬人 未滿18歲那少年的部分大概 少年的部分5年來大概差不多是1萬1千人左右1萬1千人 未滿18歲我看你們從你們內政部 從你們警政署的查詢往下去查詢110年到114年4月的刑案嫌犯人數你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
324.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有一個統計是12到17歲,有一個統計是18到23歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那這個到今年的這個2025目前有看到的數字都是1到4月啦是1到4月 但其實看這些數字喔確實我是說這個統計數字一方面青少年這個定義是大家可能不太知道怎麼去定義什麼叫青少年我們青少年應該是未滿18歲18歲這樣 少年事件處理法 少年事件處理法是應該是在12到17 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
12到17 青少年未滿18歲基本上未滿18歲所以照青少年的這個定義啦不管怎麼樣定義但是事實上主席所說的這個事實上犯罪人口增加這個是事實啦最近大概就是增加的部分大概集中在 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
375.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
403.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
詐欺 詐欺犯罪詐欺的倍數剛剛那個趙偉爾提就是大概兩倍兩倍比方像113年大概有3000人左右的這個少年的詐欺詐欺犯罪這個齁 少年的詐欺詐欺犯罪詐欺犯罪裡面又集中在車手車手 車手跟車手大概集中大概有六成到七成都在車手跟車手對 車手 我這邊的統計數字差不多佔了佔了六成啦大概佔了六成左右對 佔了六成啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
404.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
429.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那這個 這是因為這個青少年 他們事實上這些少年 他們要開戶困難啊所以他們要去當收部 要去當其他的角色 都困難就是去當收錢啊 或者是提款啊 或滅交的這種角色所以他們車手的比例會這麼高啦 因為他開戶也困難所以他沒有辦法 他要擔任其他的角色 他也有困難他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
430.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
擔負的刑者也比較低了所以對剛剛也有提到就是成少犯一起他會喜歡會招募這些這個少年的來從事這樣的詐欺犯罪事實上我們從這樣子看這個少年犯罪他這個在詐欺案件變成主要的原因這個跟過去傳統我們所謂非刑少年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
又不太相同 已經不一樣了那個形態真的是不一樣這個廚藥也完全不一樣了啦所以這個部分我們現在有做什麼樣的這個因應這樣子少年處罰這樣子的類型現在比例這麼高我們有什麼樣的在處理這些少年事件上面有什麼樣的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我想就是因為剛剛這個委員有提到就是牽涉到的部會非常的多他也提到說成少犯的這個整個處意的狀況不同少年有少年法庭那成年犯成年犯是在這個法務部的這個檢察官這個地方的這個偵辦所以未來看看怎麼樣去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
495.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
整合啦 看法律上 看怎麼去做整合那站在警署的立場上 現在的這個對於少年犯是在112年7月 就是對於少年生意處罰通過之後一個行政先行的一個機制會由這個少府會來做這樣的一個輔導的這種機制在做處理啦又有相關部會 那署長請回 我現在是不是應該請這個矯正署 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
531.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不好意思署長,在你融退之前,我們本委員會麻煩你這麼多次來,有些問題還是要跟這個小政署這邊來溝通警政署長可以回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
538.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
544.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個剛剛我跟警政署這邊的公眾接下來這個階段我們進入了這個討論少年矯正學校的這個問題少年矯正學校事實上現在有關這個我看這個歷年的統計數字從2021年到今年2025年4月底的這個統計數字這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
裡面的這些我們受感化教育的學生齁裡面詐欺罪已經到了將近三成了對不對將近三成我看統計數字是28.5%28.5%所以這個這個跟過去齁我們過去過去事實上這個這個受感化教育學生過去最多的是暴力犯罪那現在整個形態基本上是已經改變了啦已經有三成這這都是就是就是詐欺就是車手 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
595.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這樣子的擔任車手他們針對他們他們的角色這些受感化教育學生他們的角色從車手他們剛有講人頭帳戶比較困難你到了三角乍吸的這個部分他們更難擔任這個角色所以基本上都是車手啦那這些車手最大問題是受感化教育之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他們這個第一個他一定是一個組織化犯罪裡面他絕對不是自己一個人說我去車手我自己去拿錢那一定就是一個組織犯罪裡面的一個角色啦齁所以這個一定是往這個組織犯罪的方向進展組織化啦那再來因為車手這個角色讓他們再犯的比例基本上有沒有很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
650.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是我今天今天受完了這些感化教育之後我出去我再去當車手繼續再做再犯律 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
674.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
報告委員 針對少角校的學生出校以後除非他有再進來我們少角校我們才能夠得知所以你們沒有追蹤所以你們就是照他出去就不管了不是 不是說不管我們有後追一年對 後追一年包括說他出去以後以你們後追一年的範圍裡面以你們後追一年的範圍裡面災犯率高不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
675.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們沒有統計再犯例,但是我們會統計他的就業比例、就學比例、就醫比例、就養比例還有所謂失聯的比例也有但是如果針對失聯的部分,我們會轉介給衛福部來針對在後面我時間到了,但是其實我講的還不到我想問東西的一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
697.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為包括我們現在這個剛剛大家都講這些專輔的人力現在的這個人數規劃你們到底你們有提到說你們專輔人數不足你們有一個計畫要做這個心理社工專輔人力人員元額增補的計畫但是你們到底這個114年預計增加多少人你們進度怎麼樣人數規劃怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
722.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
728.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個不好意思署長因為時間的關係這請你提一個書面報告好不好請你再提一個書面報告你們計劃的這個內容你們預計增補的人力那你們會分配到哪幾所學校這樣做一個書面報告給我好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
741.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
770.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可以 這一句話就是我們專府人力是從81名會補充到315名那如果是指的是新設人力我們明年初會提事辦成果的一個計畫然後再向暴行政院那目前你們他們這個出來之後你們基本上你們還做你們做兩件工作一個是轉嫌復學一個是這個就業轉嫌對不對你們有做這兩個工作會會那我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
771.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
788.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我看這個有關就業轉嫌的部分你們的報告寫說你們服務了3489人次那是人次 實際上是46人次我現在就問這個 結果你們所謂真正有轉介的是46個人比例是非常非常低 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
790.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
819.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那因為他就學比較高就學應該是七十幾位啦但是你們進行的人次你們轉嫌這個就業轉嫌服務你們服務了三千四百八十九人但是真正有轉介的因為他的年紀他還不到當兵但是可能就學的年紀會再轉嫌這個部分是不是也請你們提出一個書面報告有關這個就學的這個事件比例偏低的部分好不好好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
820.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
828.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那我本來還有有關這個少年行政輔導先行的部分我想可能時間來不及了我們下次有機會再來討論以上謝謝委員好 謝謝沈委員 |