| IVOD_ID |
162525 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162525 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-16T10:47:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-16T11:01:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/880d22d0956e9b7d0199b6fb8d8a102265ca6c232fe926b7fb41901751c239f80a24d4c92cf601975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:47:46 - 11:01:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、繼續併案審查
（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案。
【6月16日及18日兩天一次會】） |
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有請監察院副秘書長王副秘書長副秘書長好我想當末代監察院院長這是誰的名言剛剛黃國昌委員有講到 |
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對啊 是誰我們陳院長對啊 非常好 是陳徐院長的名言那廢除監察院是我從政以來的理念 這句話是誰說的我告訴你好了 就是已經離開的監察院秘書長李俊毅李俊毅秘書長曾經說的 |
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73.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我就要想請教一樣是延續黃國昌的問題既然末代監察院是我們陳菊院長的心願那他當了陳菊院長之後當了監察院院長之後他到底做了哪一些開始準備讓監察院成為末代然後讓監察院走入歷史讓監察院被廢除的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告委員剛剛我也有跟黃委員這樣的說明就是陳院長跟第六屆監察委員就任以後所有的監察委員都是非常落實的在行使監察職權就是青年正職超然中立的行使職權嘛 對不對他們在行使監察職權那監察職權是什麼青年正職沒錯吧青年正職行使職權沒錯吧監察職權是包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
129.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
彈劾糾舉 糾正 調查總要清廉正直 不用清廉正直行使彈劾糾舉的權利嗎這個是在我們監察委員自律規範裡面有規定連清廉正直你都這麼心虛 不會吧我有說明這是自律規範裡面也有這樣子清廉正直 沒錯吧不用我問那麼多遍超然中立吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
134.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
157.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
剛剛你的整個回答其實就證明了一件事情我們的陳菊院長當了監察院的院長領著監察院院長的薪水他開過一次要廢除監察院的會議沒有有沒有開過一次沒有有沒有發表任何政策或是進程來告訴大家怎麼來規劃廢除監察院 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
186.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
沒有啦,我直接告訴你,我也查過啦,沒有啦,沒錯吧?就我所知是不是?對啊,沒有啦,所以這句話,對他而言,要領薪水比較重要但是我跟你講,其實我在這邊講這些,我其實要幫陳菊講話陳菊還是有在努力的要廢除監察院他也真的很努力要當末代的監察院院長,你知道為什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
189.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
212.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我只要講一個 什麼樣的監察院該廢除什麼樣的監察院該廢除如果要廢除監察院 它是有它的修正修憲的程序修憲是程序啦不清廉 不正直 不超然 不中立的監察院就違背了監察院的行使職權的最重要的一個價值準則對不對 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
215.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
234.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
必須要不要清廉正直的行使監察職權如果做不到這件事情違反了監察院的核心價值所以我跟你是有共識的但我告訴你為什麼今天陳菊院長她很認真啊她一邊領著薪水一邊心心念念想要廢除監察院為什麼我舉個幾個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
237.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
261.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我自己只辦藍不辦綠啦 而且我專辦辦綠不辦藍的法官我還要約詢陳審馬英九前總統案件地方法院的法官請問這是誰的功勳跟這個事蹟哪一個監察委員的功勳跟事蹟他說過這句話 做過這件事這個不是本屆的監察委員不是本屆 是民進黨屆的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
不是本屆不是第六屆當然不是第六屆我知道我講的是一個延續性的問題嘛誒不會吧現在是民進黨執政誒所以只算本屆前屆都不算啦是誰啊你也知道不是本屆但你知道是誰啦是誰你知道吧好啦不為難你了陳思夢啊請問這句話有何於超然跟中立嗎非常超然嗎這句話有沒有超然 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
293.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
319.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有沒有中立直接問啦就一個監察委員講這句話妥不妥當啦副局長我告訴你其實你不用為這些人背書啊就像你講的他也不是本屆監察委員嘛是不是不是本屆的監察委員對啊不是本屆監察委員啊根本沒有什麼超然中立直接赤裸的告訴你我就是我就是要辦藍不辦綠有這樣的一個監察委員出在民進黨執政的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
321.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
329.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那再來想問 已經不超人不中立了再來問第二個 第二個你就不能推別界了 就本界了請問載著公務車把愛犬當 公務車當愛犬的美容專車載著公務車去幫愛犬美容算清廉正職嗎這個目前北檢已經在調查中北檢調查 剛剛都已經講過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
350.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
378.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
按照監察法 基本上調查也不會構成你們今天停止調查的一個理由啦但沒關係 我不跟你爭論這件事你只要回答我一件事情 這樣做對嗎我告訴你啊 我質詢過我們的部長啦部長都直接承認啦 上次質詢你啊部長絕對不會把你的公務室拿去愛犬做美容吧 對不對對啊 你沒有愛犬 你也不會做這件事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
380.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
406.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我告訴你也沒有誰清廉公正這件事那我再講下一個我告訴你多了剛剛也有在質詢到那我剛剛副秘長很努力的辯解高永成為什麼去這個要兩度彈劾懲辦曲棍球案的檢察官過程是什麼因為接到段怡康的施壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
409.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
433.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
然後呢跑去威脅懲辦檢察官啊然後兩度彈劾又不成功啊你不需要幫他辯護我告訴你這件事情就沒有所謂的超談中立也沒有所謂的青年政治一個檢察官因為政治人物的壓力跑去恐嚇檢察官一個監察委員政治人物的壓力跑去恐嚇檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
435.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
464.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沒有檢察官看得下去剛剛我們主席對這件事也提出了看法這樣就結束了嗎 沒有啊我們賴清德大弟子前行政院發言人陳忠彥涉入性招待 關說的這些重大為師 輿論沸騰啊監察委員以壓倒性的多數反對彈劾陳忠彥監察院過去被人家說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
465.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
487.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
只打蒼蠅不打老虎啊 我跟各位講啊 民進黨執政之後 更慘他連蒼蠅死都不敢打打老虎 打了哪一隻老虎給我看看啊 已經執政 民進黨執政九年了打了哪一隻老虎給我看看啊 連蒼蠅死都不敢打那這種情況之下 我才跟肯定我們陳菊說到做到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
489.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
515.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
陳菊為什麼想到末代監察院院長末代監察院院長一邊領著高薪最好的做法就是把監察院整個毀掉嘛毀你的青年正職 毀你的超然中立嘛帶著李俊逸啊兩個人啊 這兩個人都是主張廢除監察院啊身體力行啊但是最後一里路我直接跟副秘書來講最後一里路啊 羅志強幫他完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
517.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
544.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在 黃國昌跟我他幫我們中線召委我們都已經提案 嚴肅要來實現陳菊的心願要來實現李俊逸的心願提案廢除監察院 把監察權移到立法院不只是實現他們的心願抱歉 也實現民進黨的心願民進黨已經有修憲案在立法院裡面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
547.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
569.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
也是廢除監察院把監察權移到立法院我在這邊還是告訴副秘書長告訴大家今天為什麼監察院變得如此不堪變成是大家眾所唾棄跟你們這些職員沒有關係老講白了他機能有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
571.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
594.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本來監察院在我們中華民國憲法本文所謂的五權設計當中它是間接民選的機關它的老闆是人民修憲之後變成是總統提名老闆變成總統 立法院同意總統不提名也沒有立法院同意提就一定聽我話的人變成這個樣我們賴總統提的人 請問他怎麼去監察 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
599.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
620.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
賴總統的行政代表他的行政權呢代表他意志的行政權我也不是講民進黨如此喔抱歉啊這是所謂的一個機制造成的結果任何政黨執政的總統他在提名的時候都有可能發聲說他提名的這個人感恩戴德謝謝總統提拔然後呢就不敢去監察 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
622.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
650.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以正本清源我們今天提出的主張我個人提出的主張廢院不廢權其實也不是廢院正確是要把它調整它的功能機制讓監察院民選機關化讓監察委員民選化那就有兩個方式第一個路徑就是民進黨的主張監察院廢掉監察權離到立法院因為立法委員是民選的換言之他的老闆是任命 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
651.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
676.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以他比較不用那麼看總統的眼色做事就可以好好行使家園那各位所有監察院的職工們你們就不用這麼委屈承受這麼多的非難有時候也是非戰之罪不是你們的問題那第二個路徑就是直接讓監察委員民選那就連院都不用費了所以在這邊我也是幫你們講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
678.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
695.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
過去這麼多的責難為什麼沒有打老虎為什麼連蒼蠅死都不敢打不是你們這些監察院的一些職員的問題而是這個機制出了很大的問題現在是一個關鍵的憲政時刻我希望我們可以好好來推動這個從政監察權的一個改革請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
697.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
711.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員我這裡先說明一下那個因為也有其他委員提到陳忠彥的案件那陳忠彥的案件的確是監察院彈劾是沒有通過的那沒有通過的原因其實也有做過說明原則上是當時的證據力不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
713.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
735.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以才產生證據彈劾沒有通過那這彈劾沒有通過以後通過了調查報告那這個調查報告呢就移到台南地檢署去就是續行偵查那台南地檢署也已經起訴那目前雖然是台南地院已經判決那在監察院的部分因為台南地檢署起訴以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
736.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
761.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
監察院在我們的委員會已經成立復查案件已經復查所以目前這是在調查中的案件那這個我說明一下陳宗彥案件的一個狀況前半段我聽了很難過但後半段你說還在調查中對 目前是在調查中稍微讓我沒有那麼難過王洋補牢時猶未完但我還是要跟你講一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
762.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
786.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
今天如果是其他官員遇到陳忠祐這種情況 我告訴你刑事責任跟行政維持是不同層次的問題吧對啊結果你高高舉舉輕輕放下涉及關說不當引言甚至所謂的可能疑似性招待所有問題你跟我講證據力不足他光跟廠商這種不當密切往來這事有沒有行政維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
788.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
816.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這個是經過審查會有委員你們的審查會就我剛剛跟你講的嘛獨立行使職權就沒有辦法獨立行使職權嘛所以你剛剛講的 剛剛印證我講的東西你們那麼努力調查有什麼用你上面遇到今天總統提名的要買總統單的監察委員動不了啊可是今天如果監察院今天不用再上揚總統的臉色 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
818.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
828.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們的職工就可以好好做事情所以謝謝你的補充 我直接講一個結論你的補充更驗證了 監察會好好做事情把它明顯化 謝謝 以上 |