| IVOD_ID |
162523 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162523 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-16T10:18:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-16T10:32:48+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/880d22d0956e9b7dcaf59aa33bac1be665ca6c232fe926b7e53a3acdbfa6b57d555062629d9f47525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:18:38 - 10:32:48 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、法務部廉政署率所屬相關單位列席就「鑑於近來矯正監所暴力衝突事件頻傳，如何維護『矯正是刑事司法最後一道防線』及相關獄政策進作為，包括提升戒護人力資源」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、繼續併案審查
（一）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一及第三條之二條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「監察院組織法第三條之一條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員徐巧芯等22人擬具「監察院國家人權委員會組織法第三條條文修正草案」案。
【6月16日及18日兩天一次會】） |
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主席你的手機嗎主席各位同仁剛才看到我們即將要退休的署長在後面站了那麼久我們質詢又超時,超時一倍叫你站在那邊站那麼久都沒問我覺得對你很不好意思所以現在就請你上來補說明一下 |
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38.263 |
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我剛剛有跟署長說不好意思部長你也一起啦因為有一些如果有牽涉到署長我們也就主要應該還是來請教署長不過有一些政策的問題這個會請部長來做補充我們其他的沒有關係這個有必要再上來我不像吳宗憲不會罰你們那麼久罰站你們那麼久來這個因為署長即將退休啦所以有一些問題這邊問好像 |
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會過去的問題很多,我看你們的報告,過去的問題很多也是累積很久也不是你的問題,那未來的問題好像也不關你的事所以我在這邊這樣子,我有一點不知從何問起但是這是借重署長過去這麼多年服務的經驗所以有一些部分我想要跟你了解說,現在我們到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.297 |
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117.635 |
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矯正署的跟我們法務部就這些相關問題到底有什麼樣的對策這個是我整理剛才我看陳培育委員剛才也有整理我們大家都我今天主席會排這個專案報告也是近年來這個我這一年的時間一年的時間看到我們的監獄相關的這些管理失當跟這些暴力事件的一些新聞這些是個案我們只是呈現說過去這一年確實是 |
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122.819 |
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139.461 |
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這些狀況非常多所以我很仔細就一直很期待的看我們法務部跟我們矯正署有關於這些近來這個矯正機關暴力衝突事件頻傳這樣子到底有什麼樣的對策 |
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142.71 |
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156.637 |
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法務部的部分其實我看非常簡單總共兩頁再多三行這兩頁裡面第一其實講的就是說人力不足所以要補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.765 |
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171.917 |
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補充人力啦 專業訓練然後再來要科技輔助健全廚藝作為 就這樣子三句話講完啦我也看這個矯正署的報告裡面也其實也同樣的就是同樣這幾個問題只是講得稍微仔細一點我想問題是這樣子啦 署長這個我們 |
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182.216 |
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206.001 |
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就所有報告開宗明義都講說實在是人力不足我們現在人力到底缺多少 你能不能講一下709實際缺額的情形709人709人 這你們報告寫的709人那你們這個矯正數和報告裡面也特別列出了一個表格這個世界各國介乎人力比 |
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206.781 |
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235.6 |
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的一個標準我們台灣是一個人要管9.8個人1比9.8這個9.8是如果人力補足的話一個管9.8現在這個709人還沒補上的話是1比11.4一個人要管11個人多那在日本是1比2.3幾乎一個人是管兩個人左右這是日本新加坡是1比3 |
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236.921 |
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254.993 |
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美國也只有1比4.5確實看起來我們這個介護人力確實是非常的不足這樣子的缺額不足是什麼時候開始是今年這709人的缺額是今年突然缺709人嗎 |
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262.907 |
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285.243 |
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我們預算額是6076人但是剛剛我們部長有提到我們切額709人也就是說我們現在在職的管理人員是5367人以這個比例我們現在大概是我要問的是說這個人力不足的現象是今年發生的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
285.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
308.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不是不是 絕對不是是歷年來嘛累積的累積的啦 累積的那也就是說長期以來都人力不足了那今天我們排這個專案報告說這個狀況嚴重所以你們提出來第一個理由還是人力不足了所以我就要問那人力不足怎麼辦你們現在有什麼樣的政策來處理人力不足跟行政院請爭那因為我們會有辭職商調我們請爭介護人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
342.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們107年 去年沒有做嗎去年沒有做嗎 比如說我們107年就有請增228名然後呢 結果 請增123名那111年配合我們八德外醫間跟雲林二街請增390名所以人力不足不是 署長 按照你們的報告人力不足有很多原因這些原因你們也都列出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
344.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
370.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以呢怎麼辦繼續讓這個缺額繼續擴大嗎當然我們是會努力那在傾徵我們剛剛報告 剛剛委員報告我們有合計傾徵的這幾年下來913名那人種也是有給我們啦只是我們現在還有709名的這個缺額因為我們會有辭職商調的但是其實按照你的報告這709名就算補上了還是1比9點還是1比9.8不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
374.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
386.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對不對 把缺額補上了1比9.8嘛現在沒有補上是1比11.4嘛所以即使709的缺額全部補上還是人力不足 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
388.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
411.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們有配合科技安全網還有智慧監獄我先跟你講人力不足嘛你們就講幾個原因嘛你們就說要怎麼營運問你們怎麼營運你們說第一個就是人力不足所以加強專業訓練第二個就是用科技來輔助嘛對不對所以人力的部分沒關係啊 署長你快要退休我知道說這是未來的問題部長你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
412.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
438.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那到底人力不足怎麼辦就剛才署長有講就請證人力的問題那但是因為整個預算還有編制元額最主要是還有那個整個中央總元額法裡面的一個限制所以我們在請證這部分還經過一般的一個努力但是因為這個部分如果你們不去正視它它就永遠一直惡化下去因為它本身你的招考人數也都不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
440.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
462.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後進來的人也不夠就算全部補滿了還是不夠所以你不去徹底解決他在這些傾徵啦什麼的他永遠就是缺額就是這樣永遠你會面對同樣的問題啦齁這個部分我是希望希望能夠有具體措施啦其實老實講啦一年後再排通話專題出來你們來講是人力不足啦那問題怎麼辦你還是說傾徵啦就這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
465.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
487.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我是希望能夠解決一些問題啦那現在這樣的暴力事件的升級齁這個其實齁監察院我這樣看監察院幾乎每年都有針對我們這個目前的這些監所的這些管理失靈的問題幾乎每年都有調查都有報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
510.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那每年這個報告 我就拿去年跟前年這兩年 112年 113年這兩年一個是針對北京的 一個是針對台南監獄這兩個報告拿來比對 幾乎問題都差不多他們的共同缺失也就是說監察院不管他調查幾次他所列出來的缺失幾次都沒有改善其實你們都沒有進行改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
513.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
522.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
請問委員提到北間跟南間是指哪個案子?監察院112年9月13號監察院112私調0017號報告這個是針對北間的這個112年12月11號這個是針對台南監獄的這都是監察院的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
537.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
564.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
裡面提的其實他的用語不可謂不中法律人說不可謂不中意思就是說其實口氣很重他講說你們這個以112年來講北監一再縱容一再縱容適而不見這些都是他北監的這些用語 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
566.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
592.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他裡面有提到這個經常對受刑人經常無故經常無故上銬不當私用電擊棒教唆其他受刑人對這個受刑人服務員對實施折手擊頭推人撞牆毆打等方式這都是監察院的報告這都不是我講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
595.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
606.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這樣子的這種系統性的所謂他所提到的服務員是誰服務員是所謂服務員是什麼視同作業的這所謂的雜役的什麼雜役 所謂的雜役雜役 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
612.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
627.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這些狀況齁 其實我們說包括這些私用借據什麼都我們都有辦法都有規定啦齁但是你們私用借據你們都有要登記時間要登記什麼結果監察院去報告說你們的這些報告多處用立可白圖改多處用立可白圖改也就是你們登記說我幾點開始實驗到後來監察院報告要調查的時候要去用立可白圖改 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
639.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
663.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這都監察院的報告啦 這些我也沒有看到你們有任何改善措施啊剛剛你提到科技這兩份這個共同缺失裡面 他就多處提到你們裡面的這個監視器包括你們監視畫面的保全 制度也不完善包括你們這個監視器的死角他們直接指出的監視器死角 有改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
668.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
696.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們各監獄會有一個介護的藍圖所以案前的那個我們時間已經到了我很不想再超時了這些女人所發生的包括已經司法在偵辦的有這個管理員對受刑人的有受刑人對受刑人的有受刑人對管理員的這些相關的暴力事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
697.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
713.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我看你們的這個其實我看包括法務部包括小政署你們的這些書面報告簡單講一個結論就是兩手一攤說沒有辦法就這樣子因為人力不足我們只有靠科技我認為是這樣的態度不好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
716.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
738.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我只最後提到這個報告司改會在2017年就已經提出來這個有關這個監所的這個外部監所訪查委員會這部分我知道我們已經成立了我們在2022年成立但是其實現在這些調查你們這個外部外部的這個訪查委員會其實現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
740.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
768.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你們說一年四季開四次的會那一年交一次視察報告結果這些視察報告其實都是你們今天所寫的對不對撰寫人 撰寫人都是你們我們的要求要由外部視察委員來寫我們要求機關不可以代替視察委員來寫這個報告沒有啦 你回去找每一年的報告上面寫撰寫人都是我們 都不是外部委員都是你們機關的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
769.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
783.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
跟法務部有成立一個委員的遴選小組我們有做一些進進的這個我們內部的控管機制監察院怎麼調查報告怎麼寫每年寫其實我們都沒有去改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
784.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
806.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們這個外部的這個訪查委員會我們也沒有去強化他的機能結果就造成這樣的結果報告一件事就是說我們提到的藉機我們在113年的8月有所謂的監獄看守所私用藉機的指引跟私立護電保護的指引所以我們都有要求各機關要確實執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
812.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
829.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
要確實執行的結果就是你們可以去用立可白圖你們使用的時間上面不用有任何修改公文修改你修改你都要去蓋執章你要去簽名說我這修改改字但是你們那個時間用立可白圖了都不用簽名了光這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
830.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
846.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你如果改這一點我就阿彌陀佛了不過署長沒有關係恭喜你要退休脫離苦海啦但是這個部長你還沒有要退休我希望你能夠這個相關的這些監所的管理御政我們想辦法從根解決不要每年都討論同樣的問題好不好 |