| IVOD_ID |
162266 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162266 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-05T09:13:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-05T09:25:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f41131fcd5ae5644d2256c5319b709dcd8722aad0b92e7fe7f061fc5ac7c7dc73901da7dcf6c21b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:13:23 - 09:25:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查一、委員徐欣瑩等18人、二、委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具「技師法第十一條條文修正草案」及三、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「技師法第十一條及第四十二條條文修正草案」案。
【本日會議僅進行詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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28.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席謝謝 請陳主委請主委委員長主委好 本席有看到說您這幾天是以這個政務委員的身份跟台鐵相關單位召開安全改革追蹤會議那新聞也有看到台鐵事故頻傳政院要求比照道安匯報每月檢討是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
因為我負責這個台鐵安全的檢討的會議是本來是美計啦是那後來我們發覺相關的事故偏高還是偏傳偏高然後我們是要求說那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
67.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
先試看看每個月將發生的這些事故啊詳細的來做報告並檢討以及他這個相關責任歸屬所以是想比照這個交通大安匯報每個月開一次好 主委請教台鐵來是成績是什麼成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
跟你這邊開會董事長還有總經理以及相關的主管代理董事長代理董事長對是好台鐵現在是公司為什麼會公司化在2024年的1月的時候正式公司化掛牌也已經一年多了當時給我們國人最大的要求也在這個交通委員會的這個會議室裡面審查公司條例的時候當時也講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
是要把相關的缺失相關的錯誤能夠因為公司化之後來改進啊所以主委你有看你有在臉書提到說吊車錯誤駕駛疏失行車安全疑慮哪一個是新問題都還是老問題那2024年之前一直跟我們講說以前叫做台鐵局所以有摯愛難行之處有陳科沒有辦法去做這一些管理那現在一年多了公司化 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主委 您自己感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
公司化之後有比較有改善的空間嗎因為從這個機關變成公司公司有董事會那董事會有各界的這個等於是外部董事也都有所以他進目前就逐步建立公司經營應該有的這個制度啦那因為是台北 已經一年多了耶這個不是一個新公司耶這個機關已經很久很久了 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們這樣子請教比較實在話講因為我不希望跌床架屋公務員最怕做什麼事情開一個會確定下一個時間什麼時候再開會那我們現在講是說你願意跳下來比照檔案匯報檢討安全你講說安全跟準點是台鐵最基本要求我認同但是有沒有辦法做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
181.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天在每個月開一次的道安會報以工程會主委與政委的身份來開再把台鐵公司的人再找來那會不會跌床架屋有內部的管理有外部的管理再來工程會結果問題還是一樣因為我是受命負責台鐵的安全督導啦所以他本來就是一個專案所以主委一年多的台鐵公司化安全你滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
238.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
已經比過去的一些經常重大事故是有進步但是你滿意嗎但我們當然還不滿意還不滿意所以才會希望每個月檢討事故的原因希望每個月檢討事故所以我們要逐步的一件一件然後這次是月台這次是平交道每一次事故都一定有原因嘛那每個原因解決了之後我們希望透過這個方式讓公司上下都重視這個事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好的改善是非常重要的主委利益良善啦那但是我想請教什麼時候要代理主代理董事長要爭取啊還是說什麼時候可以有一個台鐵新的董事長這個不是我的不是你的決定可是你會不會覺得說在在治理組織來講這很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
277.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
杜威前董事長3月20號離職他申請退休那到現在三個月快三個月過去了還是代理董事長那如果說你要一個組織能夠真真正正從上到下把剛剛講的這些小細節其實這有些時候是螺絲酸不酸的緊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那螺絲栓緊 最直接的即便你是工程會主委 即便你是政務委員 官大 學問大但是公務體系也常常有一句話 怕管不怕關啊你每個月可以跟他們開一次會可是如果說他連董事長都是代理的就代表是說這個組織裡面沒有真真正正要負責的人啊或是說沒有人在那24小時都在想怎麼樣把安全給做好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
330.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那是不是應該要建議是說該派人來專業任命該派就要派而不是說用代理的方式主委你怎麼看目前武次長代理董事長他本身也是鐵道局出身是沒有錯是相當專業所以我理解啊台鐵的整個制度啊管理啊機械等等但是代理他就變成說他又有交通部次長的業務他又有台鐵的業務那孰輕孰重 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他本來次長就要督導鐵道局如果真的這樣的話 那這樣交通部長或是次長大家都代理就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是嗎這個我們會尊重委員的意見啦不過畢竟還是部長的權責該建議要建議啦我覺得這個是釜底抽薪我今天沒有幫任何人講話我今天講的是一個制度面就是說組織裡面如果說你今天用代理 代理久了他的權責當然難免就會不相符是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想這個部長會綜合各種情況來 主委那我另外請教我們還是要看你之後台鐵的一個安全本期還是期待是以安全專業準點為出發點好不好來 那現在我們本院委員有踢爆說全台僅用的防彈背心有瑕疵相關得標廠商三度被列採購黑名單但是廠商在停權期間還是可以用其他公司名義繼續投標 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那我們之前其實也有討論過就希望是說能夠增訂所謂的黑名單三政條款因為最主要現在漏洞在於是管公司不管負責人是不是我目前在修法中我是不是請陳副主委來跟簡單說明一下因為這個是國人很關鍵不管是之前的太魯閣號事件還是說現在的這個防彈背心連防彈背心都可以有瑕疵我們要怎麼樣保障我們的警校弟兄 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
421.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
449.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
來報告委員齁那個最近我們在跟各界在檢討整個停權的一個制度啦那我們當然有各種的意見啦有的認為這個管得太鬆有的認為管得太嚴那原則上我們會往一個比較寬鬆之間一個中間的那還有更多網友要不要去看網友還有很多網路在討論是說有沒有管啊你說管得太鬆又管得太嚴還有人問說到底有沒有在管 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在確實是有各種意見是那我們會往剛我也提到就是說他可能會同一個負責人他好幾家公司那可能我們會這個部分會做一個處理但是如果說這個人那進來因為他公司畢竟是一個法人他不是自然人他可能經營的階層會改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
493.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那如果說要納入這個三政的條款那麼又把他這個負責所有的這個單人負責的其他廠商都納進來那麼我們是有聽到有一些比較餘力啦認為這個會不會太過的擴及了所以這部分我們還在整合各界的意見可以依 不管是依情節輕重或者是依相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
495.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
狀況來去做調整嗎我實在話講情節輕重你如果說連這個僅用防彈背心都可以造假都可以有瑕疵都可以說採驗收完畢之後都還可以不符合相關標準還是像如同之前太魯閣號事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
泰魯卡事件這樣的一個狀況 跟我們報告就是說黃湯沛先生這個確實讓我們注意到他其實是因為停權那他這個採購他沒有搭配最有利標他是用最低標啦所以現在我們的指導的一個原則希望都能夠採用最有利標那就會把他這個之前的時機納進來那況且我們現在有成立一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
539.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
565.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是說這一些有採購防彈變形的機關那麼如果有發現這個廠商旅業有問題那麼會通報這個平台我們透過這個平台去篩選廠商你現在講這些制度是不是都已經已經在做了那為什麼還會弊案窮出不窮的發生那就代表是說這樣的一個制度沒有辦法防避這樣的弊案來 主委我就簡單確認兩個撥分啦主委我第一個說如果連 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
負責人你要鎖定負責人都很有可能上有政策下有對策他找人頭來開公司也可能規避但如果說你連負責人都沒有辦法去做一個警示都沒有辦法去做一個限制的話那真的一個負責人看ABCDE五家公司A公司被你停權了我B公司C公司再來投標一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
594.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
劣跡斑斑的負責人 劣跡斑斑的公司一而再三的有辦法得到我們政府的採購標案國人作何感想 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
工程會身為中央主管機關做何感想所以我們在進行政府採購法的修訂我想近期內就會報什麼時候會報出來6月6月至7月中整是會報行政院我們會報行政院來審有辦法下個會期能夠進來到立法院我們來去做修法討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
640.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
原則上可以 下個會期可以 這個會期恐怕會比較難這個會期算現在延長到7月31嘛 但你有可能比較難好 我們就遵照委員的意見 下個會期送到大院來審議那針對所謂的三政條款這邊 你們會有加嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
667.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
會有一些方式來排除那個惡劣的這個廠商用換負責人的方式開新公司的方式來得標那剛才副主委解釋的他這個個人或者是說相關公司過去的這個劣跡他會作為將來評審 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
687.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
的扣分的方式之一啦我們會想盡辦法來防度啦這個是修法的最主要的重點之一劣跡如果真的情節重大是連投標資格都不應該有是應該停權三年五年甚至這個投標資格都不應該有機關他採購的條件他可以所以這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
都應該要放進去我們會對機關有相關的一些的指引我們會會有這個指引然後機關可以根據這個指引啦他們去參考然後作為他遭傷的條件之一啦好 謝謝主委 謝謝副主委本席也會提出本席的修法版本我們期待下個會期我們共同討論真的把相關的漏洞能夠補起來補起來不要讓國人認為是說怎麼黑心廠商有辦法一而再再而三投標 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
721.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
726.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這是任何機關 不管立法部門 行政部門都不應該被看到的事情 好嗎 謝謝 |