| IVOD_ID |
162256 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162256 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-05T09:17:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-05T09:36:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f41131fcd5ae5647214d65befcd60ad9f0f8eeb1de8c89c47c2ef1f362baa4a0804d8b80b32b3635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:17:36 - 09:36:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查
（一）考試院函請審議「公務人員保障法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公務人員保障法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案。
（三）委員徐欣瑩等27人擬具「公務人員保障法部分條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「公務人員保障法部分條文修正草案」案。
（五）委員林月琴等31人擬具「公務人員保障法部分條文修正草案」案。
（六）委員李昆澤等29人擬具「公務人員保障法第十九條條文修正草案」案。
（七）委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「公務人員保障法第十九條條文修正草案」案。
二、繼續併案審查
（一）委員李彥秀等18人擬具「公務人員任用法第三十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「公務人員任用法第二十八條之一條文修正草案」案。
【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 我們有請考試院秘書長保訓會主任委員 蔡主任委員還有選舉部的懷疑政策懷疑政策委員長三位早 時間的關係不易問候最近監察院濫用公務車的狀況引爆全國人民的怒火昨天有立法委員檢舉所接到檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有監委濫用公務車啊結果那個監委啊大嗆說他沒有公務車大家很慘啊下雨天要坐捷運又要走路我看到這樣的發言啊我簡直是瞠目結舌啊何不食肉糜啊全國的公務人員哪一個不是這樣上班的啊監委有比較忙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
92.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
但是他講了一句啊 很有啟發性的話他說什麼他說不是只有監察院有公務車啊要查全面都要查啊來 先請秘書長 贊不贊成他這樣的呼籲跟委員報告 就是我想所有的機關在使用公務車的時候都應該遵守相當的規定OK 好 來 我們來看一下考試院目前有12部首長專用車 1部副首長專用車我指的是院本部喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
117.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
其他的 選序部 考選部以及保訓會的我還沒有算保訓會的在下一張考選部 選序部 保訓會總共有九部正部首長專用車院本部有十二部首長專用車現在這十二部首長專用車是怎麼使用的可不可以簡單跟大家說明一下我有一個院長 副院長嘛他們都是首長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
12部扣掉4部 正副院長 正副秘書長還有8部 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
140.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
然後有六個考試委員我們六位考試委員他們現在考試委員的那個載送他們的車輛他們的使用方法也是一樣要提出拍車單 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
152.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
一樣要提出派車單所以不是專用車有沒有固定的司機?跟委員報告其實慣例上面以前都是專用車在很多屆前那在幾屆以前有立法院做成決議就認為烤尾不應該是專用車有沒有落實?有 這個部分有因為烤尾的車輛都要接受公務車的調排所以司機跟烤尾 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
175.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
199.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不是專屬的關係但是他還是會有一個對應關係沒有專屬的關係有對應關係我的意思就是說那你還敢講有落實喔因為這樣考委的車輛也要接受公務車的調度所以也就是說如果因為我們就是如果公務車需要量比較多的時候那我們的單位會調配沒有啦不要講這些雜七雜八的我現在只有問首長專用車嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
227.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在你們給立法院公務車的車輛明細表裡面有12輛首長專用車嘛扣掉正副院長、正副秘書長還有8輛嘛然後考試委員有6名嘛所以呢首長專用車的數量大於所有院本部的正副首長這樣講沒有錯吧對 因為這次考試委員提名人數就沒有到9位 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
230.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在問我最關鍵的問題以前啦是 上一屆國會的時候秘書長應該很清楚啊你有被檢舉過啊搭公務車然後出入清平台基金會大樓那個時候潘孟安 姚立民也有一起與會這個事情你還記得吧對 這個是我是去拜會清平台的鄭麗君董事長所以這是公務我去拜會他這個部分是公務是公務 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
273.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
晚上九點是公務應該說我們在拜會相關民間智庫的話這個其實也是都做這是民間智庫還是賴清德的民間競選總部因為這個部分我沒有參與但是你確定沒有參與真的沒有參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我是去拜會那個...上一屆啊立法委員問這一題問得很溫和啊那時候我人不在立法院啊我也想說算了就尊重那一屆啊立委的職責我只是要喚起你的記憶啊喚起你的記憶啊同時讓所有考試院的正副院長啊大家一起共同勉勵共同警惕啊公務車是不是可以這樣用啊現在事情風波變成這個樣子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那既然有監委呼籲要查全面就要查那沒關係那我們就來全面的清查 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
338.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是不是可以請考試院包括所屬的兩部還有保訓會針對今年考試委員以及你們正副首長使用公務車的情況派車單的影本以及公務車司機加班的情況每個月加班的時數以及加班費會後把資料送給全體司法法治委員會的委員可以嗎需要多久 三天之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
367.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 我們盡快好 三天之內喔 今年所有的狀況提到司法法治委員會然後我們說到狀況以後有沒有必要排狀案報告我再請我們的召委啊來加以斟酌來進入啊 今天的主題啊中憲院長當初啊 在考試院院長提名權的時候我事實上在跟他詢問 他有跟我承諾說他一定會提出公務員保障法的修正草案這件事情有做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
392.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
周院長說到做到說到做到我沒有後悔當初投他一個贊成票但是現在我們今天要進入整個法規範細部的討論逐條的時候我們可以再交換意見但有幾個大的原則性的問題來我先請教一下保育訓會的主委裡面有說啦 就針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
393.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
404.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
霸凌的狀況 機關首長經認定職場霸凌成立處一萬元以上 一百萬元以下的罰款這是考試員的提案嘛好 那這個機關首長怎麼定義啊機關 不好意思機關首長指的就是 我們是相對於這個治安法裡面他講的是民間的部署是啦 是啦 那治安法是民間的嘛在公務機關的機關首長如何定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
420.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
440.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
他在整個組織法裡面呢 他明定就是長理跟負責整個機關政務的推動的那一個負責人 最主要負責人 那我們稱為他就是機關首長依照啊 就是中央行政機關組織法的規定我們的機關首長有四級嘛有一級機關 二級機關 三級機關 四級機關嘛四級到第四級的機關首長全部都算是嗎是好來 我們下一個 司長算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
462.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他算單位主管 他不算機關首長那現在問題就來啦單位主管 師長就很大啦哎唷哎唷 謝禮喔 謝禮 謝禮 謝禮我們先休息 先休息 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
491.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
501.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
民主黨你先坐著休息沒事齁沒有沒有沒有這個不是任何人的問題就民主黨先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
520.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
522.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那個立法院這邊有義務室啊那我們再請他們過來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
541.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
541.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
577.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
593.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
各位委員 如果我們讓他們到巡打的位置 大家可以接受嗎好 那我們就 主委 我們就到那個官員的位置那邊去接受巡打這個台子壞掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
605.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
605.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
632.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
637.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
667.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
667.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個螢幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
734.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
753.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好那民主黨等一下如果你有任何需要或不舒服你都隨時跟我們說不用擔心擔入會議的進行就隨時跟我講那我們需要停止或是你有什麼需求就直接跟我們說好謝謝委員關心以身體健康為第一優先抱歉個人身體狀況這個身體的問題絕對不是任何人有什麼不對的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
758.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
782.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以只要有什麼問題你隨時跟我說以您的身體健康為我的第一考量是 謝謝 不好意思那我們就會議繼續謝謝主席其實我是歉意啦看是不是直接讓秘書長先離席我剛剛有跟秘書長說就是秘書長如果需要請假可以先請假回去沒有關係 謝謝委員讓我坐著 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
784.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
801.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那請秘書長隨時注意一下身體狀況或有沒有撞傷或什麼一定要講好謝謝秘書長OK好那就繼續下去就麻煩保訓會的主委回答就好了所以我們先從法條的定義開始司長不在你們這次所提出法案的機關首長的範圍當中對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
804.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
825.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他不算機關首長,但是他算是負責人之一,因為如果說在現場當中他是實際指揮監督者。我就具體的講我的法律意見,從過去衛福部所發生的案子,清楚的呈現出來,不用到機關首長,部門主管的權勢就很大了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
827.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
852.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
部門主管的權勢就很大了就問一問一般的公務員 司長大不大司長講的話敢不敢違逆為什麼會有司長叫人家在那邊要深蹲做福利挺身還叫下屬自殺這個應該都是落入你們這一次保訓會所提出的公務員職場霸凌的定義範圍內沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
855.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
881.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你要按麥克風是對嘛那現在問題就來啦屬於你們所定義的職場霸凌範疇但因為他不符合機關首長的定義那導致沒有辦法對他進行行政上面的罰環而他現實上是什麼現實上公務體系裡面公務員隨便問一問就知道詮釋很大了啦那要不然在衛福部怎麼會出現這樣令人髮指的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
884.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
912.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
沒有關係 我質詢就是要把這個point把它講出來那具體法條討論的時候我跟其他的委員包括吳宗憲委員 羅志強委員等等我們所提出來的修正動議到具體條文的時候我們再來進一步討論希望到時候考試院保訓會的心胸能夠放寬一點全部把它嚴格限定在機關首長保護的範圍是不是足夠這件事情可能要討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
914.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
923.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我的時間到了 我最後只問一題跟今天所提的法律案有關係的我們都到主條再來處理我最後一個問題 請教一下全序部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
924.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
951.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們之前啊 就那個警察人員人事條例啊台灣民眾黨團的立場是我們要保護我們警消的同仁他們非常的辛苦 非常的辛苦在政策上 權序部有不一樣的看法我理解 因為你們要面對所有的公務員那警消特別處理你們權序部一直有不一樣的看法這個我都理解但問題是這個法律案現在已經三讀通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
952.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
967.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那我得到一些基層我們警消退休的人員他們的反應是說三讀通過了到底什麼時候要做然後我找警政署來說現在跟你們好像有一些意見不一樣需要多久來請玄虛部 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
968.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
993.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我跟委員報告一下第一個這個法律已經在今年4月25日那個總統公布生效這是一個有效法律我們本部一定會執行這個大家不用擔心那另外因為在這個法通過以後事實上那個實際執行上面我們事實上在4月29號5月16號跟5月28號兩部的就內政部跟本部的政務次長都有召開會議因為有些執行上細節並不是還需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
995.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1012.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我目前大概警政署他必須要研修一個警察條例的適應細則那因為現在的這個所以現在是警政署那邊的問題對因為我們這個有很多討論因為很多細節這我跟委員報告我也是繼承公園出身的是這法律通過不是我們想像說好像訂貼貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1013.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1035.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
尤其這個裡面大概沒有退休人就跟沒有退休人你把要做的工作還有需要多久清楚的讓大家知道讓所有基層的同仁可以知道就好這個我們現在大概後續還要再進行一個叫做電腦系統的一個需求處理那那個部分我們跟專業單位討論過大概需要三個月時間因為這是三個月時間對對對因為這是沒有關係就等你三個月那我也跟委員因為今天你時間講出來了嘛對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1040.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1067.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那大家就等你三個月三個月要完成電腦系統以後我們才可以開始作業不是說三個月就把這個事情做好所以總共需要多久我們是預計因為我們考慮到我們也考慮到我們部裡面同仁的工作複合喔大概電腦如果很順利能夠三個月把它完成的話我們大概預判應該在年底以前應該都可以把它完成年底以前對 把四萬多年前完成沒有關係啦而且這個都會追溯你們需要時間喔一定給你們時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1070.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1099.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那只是全責要理清楚那你要給大家一個清楚心理的預期嘛這些基層的公務人員他們退休了以後知道你們辛苦需要時間處理這大家都可以理解那我也肯定今天選區部表現了一個態度立法院三讀通過了法律你們會遵守 會執行這個態度非常的好啊這個態度真的非常的好啊比現在行政院院長卓榮他的態度啊好太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1100.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1121.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那只是在具體執行的時間上你們說希望年底以前完成那就拜託學區部的同仁跟我們警政署的同仁加把勁因為對於這些退休警囂給他們保障這件事情他們期待了非常久法律完成三讀的盡量能夠趕快真正的施行謝謝 |