| IVOD_ID |
162236 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162236 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-04T12:32:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-04T12:44:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/dfdeed74d30b98288d89cf5ef77061925e54a9d835821946e4d45e0249ca5227cb601fca392b1a975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:32:27 - 12:44:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、本院台灣民眾黨黨團，有鑑於行政院主計總處行文各縣市政府，將中央編列給地方政府的一般性補助款自114年度5至12月份分配及撥付數全數改為未分配數，已嚴重違反立法院通案刪減、促進政府資源有效配置之決議精神。中央政府預算編列浮濫，原編列三兆一千億元，立法院通案刪減後仍有二兆九千億餘元之數，為中華民國史上最高之中央政府總預算，本院本於職責審議預算，以督促中央政府增進財務效能、減少不當經濟支出甚至浪費之目的，中央政府不思檢討如何有效節用分配資源，卻意圖慷地方政府之慨，緊縮一般性補助款補助事項，將直轄市、準用直轄市規定之縣及縣（市）基本財政收支差短與定額設算之教育、社會福利及基本設施等改為未分配數，此舉不僅違反原預算刪減提案之意旨，更將嚴重影響地方財政及運作，對地方長期建設造成劇烈衝擊。爰建請院會作成決議：「行政院主計總處應依立法院審議中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案通案刪減之決議意旨，由中央各機關及所屬編列之預算刪減調整，並立即將一般性補助款足額撥付予地方政府。」請公決案。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】
二、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、內政部劉部長世芳及法務部就「近十年中央政府依財政收支劃分法、地方制度法等地方政府之補助情形及對均衡地方經濟發展之成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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陳主席長 莊部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
9.192 |
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30.954 |
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好 部長跟主席我想財政委員會在這個議場裡面已經講過非常多次有關財政收支劃分法就是要解決中央集權 集錢地方政府養中央鼻息的這個問題今天這個會議更可以證明財政收支劃分法的修正是最重要的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
31.874 |
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58.664 |
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因為修正了所以地方將來會有穩定的裁員而不會像今天一樣中央想砍就砍今天的問題在於總預算的審查是立法院的職權給行政單位相當的彈性但是今天看到的是主席長我想問你一個問題看一般補助款是你的意思還是行政院長的意思還是總統的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.558 |
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86.368 |
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我們是提了很多的方案但是有一些方案是最後定案的是誰拍板要刪地方政府的一般補助款行政院是提上去給上面做決定上面是行政院院長嗎還是總統府院長拍板所以是卓榮泰院長決定大砍地方政府的預算請大家把這個事情搞清楚第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.779 |
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115.442 |
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立法院在審議相關總預算的時候做的所謂的統刪今年是第一次嗎以前統刪大部分都是超1%啦以前就有統刪不超過1%所以都沒有這個問題以前的統刪有刪到一般補助款嗎不是因為以前刪的少嘛刪的少所以就刪不到對但是以前有刪到我只問你以前有刪到一般補助款嗎沒有但是以前有刪到過依法律義務的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.058 |
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128.175 |
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有刪到過 但是有刪到一般補助款嗎 你有沒有回答我沒有你要不要回答我 要用麥克風是 沒有沒有 以前立法院刪的統三預算從來沒有刪到地方補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
146.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
說清楚講明白第三個部分今年就像剛剛很多委員都講了這一次總預算裡面稅出預算只有監察院外交部財政部經濟部環境部跟數發部的預算比上一年度少其他的單位都比上一年度多 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
166.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以我們在統山的金融裡面給了行政院非常大的彈性就是你可以去做自行的調節請問主席長你有去調節嗎你有去詢問各部會你哪些東西可以審嗎審到最後以後還是636億直接砸到地方政府的頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
168.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
通關刪減的部分它是不可以調解的它不可以調解然後本身裡面呢所以它說它結成不了所以你就相信了所以你就直接去砍地方政府了是嗎不是這個部分是因為我們本來它金額那麼大大概也沒有那麼大的一個計畫可以刪減所以只好去刪地方政府來財政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
211.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我在財化法的時候你一直說要跟地方政府溝通好他們意見不同所以一直在溝通溝通了十幾年都沒有用第二個我想問一下這次主計處在刪地方補助款的時候我們財政部或主計長有跟地方政府溝通嗎這個部分我不清楚你沒有來主計長你有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
212.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
有沒有跟大家說我要砍你的錢砍多少錢有跟他們溝通過嗎沒有直接發文對嗎所以就是說這件事情對你們來說就是權利是我的我愛幹嘛幹嘛今天才會站在這邊還會在這個提案預算都審查過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
233.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第三個問題我現在的問題是現在的補助款刪到最後剩下目前是到110年的水平也就是說現在是個僵局請問行政院主席處你們打算如何解決這個僵局還是地方政府接下來要跟他們各地方議會的人說我們要跟議會報追檢預算你們是要他們直接報追檢預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
283.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
其實我們在刪減之前我們都有一些去做涉算所以現在這個結論下去他們要去追檢預算還有他累計剩餘的一個情形那如果說他本身因為這個部分他們會在影響是在稅入面不會影響到稅數所以他們要去追檢預算也就是說沒有其他的方法了是嗎他可以遵檢相關現在這些縣市省長坐在這邊就是要聽你處計處長他要怎麼辦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是 但是這個部分呢他要怎麼辦啊他也可以用累積剩餘來做他可以用他自己的錢來做所以你不會再給他錢答案就是你沒有要解決這個問題嘛利用你的資房錢你去把它花一花他也有建議說要辦追加但是這個追加的部分也必須要立法委員立法委員來支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
他現在勢必要追檢了啦 被你弄到要追檢了啦好 重點是行政院在去年阻擋了財化法告訴我們現在版本就是最好的版本而且所有的內容都說 我補助款給好多好多現在的問題就是今天所有的問題財化法才是最終解決的方法所以財化法我想問一下主席長你現在要編新的預算是用新的財化法還是舊的財化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
344.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我上次問過妳嘛 妳說依法行政嘛明年的預算是新的財化法對吧所以妳預算地方政府現在是用新法邊還是舊法邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
地方政府的部分這個部分我還沒有調查你們你不知道所以也不知道所以你也沒有要依法行政好最後的問題我今天要說的是地方政府的意見對你們來說重不重要還是要立法院請他們在這邊才能聽得到第二個地方集權地方被中央集權又集權財化法現在立法院已經修正了你們也不執行第二個他們接下去要編明年的預算也不知道怎麼編現在今年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果是適用舊的財化法它就是一個中央政府對他們一般補助款的承諾你們也不遵守這三件事情行政院是要這個國家大亂就對了主計處是完全不守財政紀律讓這個國家沒有辦法持續往前走這才是我今天的問題財化法的修正更可以證明立法院是對的行政院不願提版本到今天為止還沒有立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果兩位首長真的負責任的話要清楚的告訴院長我們不可以這樣子做現在請新竹市秘書長請新竹市秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是主席好委員好是民主黨我想新竹市台灣民眾黨唯一執政的縣市喔那我們在修財化法的時候也發現了就是新竹市對稅收的貢獻非常的大但是真的分到地方的統籌分配稅款非常跟其他縣市顯不公平所以我們做了很多的調整第二個就是這一次的刪減到一般補助款對於地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
461.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本來就已經缺乏的經費可能受到更大的影響我想知道新竹在這次的被刪了多少那你們對你們影響有哪些 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
462.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
480.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝有人關心新竹市這一次也是被通刪27.3%不是25%是27.3%金額是9.8億因為我們規模比較小所以實際上刪了9.8億但刪完了結果我們今年所獲得的統籌分配稅款只有剩下34.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
484.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
502.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
25.9億 對不起 25.9億比去年33.5億還要來得少了所以3的其實是影響非常大那剛剛大家都提到為什麼是3我們會受到影響的是教育 社福以及基層建設因為這些項目不是我們所有的地方政府自己挑的這些項目就是統籌 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
504.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
528.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一般補助款所指定的施政項目所以我們被刪就是這些項目會被刪所以剛剛所講到所有的弱勢孩子的補助收入的補助營養午餐的補助或者是社會福利以及我們的基礎建設我們的公園我們的道路我們的水溝這些通通受到影響那所以真的是影響非常的重大所以今天謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
530.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
548.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
召集人讓我們有機會來表達這個意見我們也非常希望說今天的這個審議的議案能夠照案通過把這個補助款能夠還給我們就像我們代理市長所說的以蒼生為念 以上好的 謝謝秘書長我想部長跟主席長大家都聽到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
569.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
今天大家都說如果你刪的是一些特殊的業務費或者是不重要的錢就算了現在刪到的是社福是基層建設是教育教育社福這是政府的責任這不是我們在財政上面可以優先刪除的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
570.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
587.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
優先性必要性主席長我想請問一下你認為你現在刪除的是具有所謂財政上的優先性跟必要性嗎優先性跟必要性就大聲的告訴所有的國人地方政府的一般補助款是我不認為它有優先性也不認為它有必要性的講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
607.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
報告委員 我刪新竹市的部分只有刪爭域裁員的部分所以他三項補助我是沒有刪的所以這個部分我必須要釐清而且他三檢以後所以他說的不對 那你們給他的錢不會影響到我們以三項合計起來 譬如說一般性補助統統你大聲的說我不影響社福 不影響教育 不影響基層建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
610.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
628.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
以新竹市來講的話它是比去年還增加三項合起來比去年還增加如果比去年還增加就不會有秘書長在這邊講話這裡講話不能說謊的所以他們受到影響你又說沒有受到影響所以誰說了算你要不要對著麥克風說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
632.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
649.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
她是比去年增加7億啦三項合起來一個是計劃型補助一個一般性補助她被刪的9.5億還是比較多是嗎還是比去年增加7億還是比去年多所以她可以她沒有受任何影響妳的意思是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
650.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
676.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
今天在做的所有的東西都受到影響了才會坐在這裡636億你告訴我沒有影響但是我們被通案刪減的部分就是說我們刪減了930億我們必須要通案刪減所以沒有辦法財政收支化分法才是真正保障地方財源穩定而不是每天被中央隨時隨地都可以所謂的予取予求我覺得這才是今天的問題所以主席長我要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
678.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
695.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
妳的備案是什麼?妳什麼時候會有備案?或者是今天為止,之後就是妳們隨人顧性命?妳是指財劃法的部分嗎?是,不是只有今天這個錢,妳有什麼備案?沒有備案,來這邊只是虛晃一招妳要怎麼解決這個僵局啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
696.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
721.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那個一般性補助的部分嗎我們因為有一些部分縣市也有建議說要追加我們也希望立法院能夠支持那如果支持這個部分那你們什麼時候要做什麼事要做什麼補救要做什麼事啊我們會盡量在這個會期裡面來把它這個會期提出追加預算是嗎如果說立法院願意支持的話我們就你們不是應該先把補助款撥給他們然後再去算算我們各機關該怎麼節省錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
723.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
731.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們沒辦法 因為現在就是自愛男性的部分就是在這裡是這樣子主席長 我覺得一樣啦還是一樣 以昌生為念啦 拜託謝謝黃珊珊委員 |