| IVOD_ID |
162121 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162121 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-02T11:45:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-02T12:01:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:41 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f1b1c5cbef0f6d9ede29bc6d976122d952232a9b15fab92f3a9c8b26d91a1e230fd4b0f6903ffae55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:45:46 - 12:01:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長、審計部審計長、司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「如何落實清廉政府及公務員瀆職之態樣與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】） |
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好 謝謝主席我覺得我們今天我們司法法制委員會已經好幾次那麼該來的都不來那今天呢秘書長雖然在昨天晚上突然請辭可是問題是監察院完全沒有派任何代表來第一個藐視立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第二個難道監察院現在整個監察院是已經羞於見人了嗎即便秘書長突然請辭也可以派代理人來到立法院來做報告難道監察院對於我們今天的專案報告就是如何建立一個清廉政府如何去防範貪腐他們覺得不重要嗎所以我覺得我們還是要允許一個嚴厲的譴責好謝謝主席那我想我請那個法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
麻煩保護部長好 部長好委員好這次監察院發生了連續從秘書長開始到好幾位的監察委員都有濫用公務車的情形那引起軒然大波但是事實上公務人員濫用公務車也不是從現在開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
111.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
今天早上除了已經請辭的秘書長李俊逸之外還有蘇麗瓊監委是要去看牙醫然後另外一位監委林玉榮去載親友去接送機場今天早上又爆發另外一位的王榮章監委他一樣的去用公務車去理頭髮 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以今天監察院早上召開記者會除了來說明為什麼李俊逸秘書長準辭之外也把三位監察委員要移送紀律委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
156.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那這樣的一個發展其實是因為最近輿論大滑本來監察院第一時間竟然說這是涉及事件所以監察委員他們也不曉得該怎麼樣去處理這真的是很離譜因為他們都忘記他們自己有一個紀律委員會還要煩勞外界去提醒他們監察院你們自己有紀律委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以呢他今天呢移送三位監委去他的紀律委員會那另外一方面呢我們常常講說監察院敢不敢打老虎還是呢只是敢打蚊子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
199.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那麼監察院過去其實也有就是監察委員就彈劾監察委員在這邊特別要提的就是這些涉案的監委並不是只有去紀律委員會而已他們還有幾個選擇第一個選擇就是他要不要比照呂敬義秘書長要請辭下台以事負責 負起政治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
另外一個呢 就是監委可以去彈劾監委 這個是過去曾經發生過的在美國86年的時候 其實監察院通過彈劾監察委員叫做蔡慶柱他的一個收賄貪污案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這件事情不是說今天像擠牙膏的方式那麼外界質疑到哪裡你就去辦到哪裡現在才做請辭做斷尾求生現在才去移送紀律委員會其實還有其他的監察院敢不敢彈劾 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是我在這邊為什麼要請部長上台部長一定站了半天覺得說這干我什麼事所以我要請教的是其實過去我剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
272.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
用濫用公務車並不是從現在開始過去也有很多的案例這個在之前今天我看有些委員提到的包含前台南市的民族事務委員會的主委前雲林縣的消防局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
274.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
屏東三地門的鄉長 還有前屏東訪寮鄉長都曾經因為 當然他們的情節還有其他的 但是他們濫用公務車就是公務車公器私用的部分 也是造成他貪污犯罪的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那麼過去都有 都有處理甚至呢 其實有很多還有起訴的當然也有被彈劾的也有被判刑的當然有些是還起訴好 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
313.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
過去很多公務人員 有的有辦 有的沒有辦 待會我也要提到有些根本完全都沒有辦啦 然後裝死就過去了那我要請教的部長是 一個國家終究不能夠一國兩制或一國多制 對不對所以如果像公務人員 像這次監察院 從秘書長開始到監委 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
362.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那麼我剛才也提出對照過去也有因為你私用公務車認為你侵占了公有財物而被來被調查被起訴的這些案例那請問一下部長對於公務人員濫用公務車到底檢調辦不辦辦的標準是不是應該一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
367.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
謝謝委員我想這一件那個北捷有因為民眾的叫法檢舉那個有立案來偵辦那這部分只要我們刑訴訴訟法只要有告訴告發 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這部分我們就會只有犯罪嫌疑我們就會來立案來做一個告發有沒有時間限制沒有時間限制那個追溯嫌疑部分那個告發都沒有時間限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那如果這樣的話那我就也直接跟部長來告發另外三個例子更高高官來2023年的時候年初我們的國家運輸安全調查委員會的主委楊洪志他在上班期間搭乘公務車到宜蘭去訪友泡溫泉吃美食有的時候的太太也跟著一起去 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
425.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
450.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那這個事情呢後來呢也不了了之就是運安會的主委楊洪志好再來2024年7月10號我們駐WTO代表羅昌發他呢被爆料被長期佔用Volvo的公務車當私家車甚至拿公帑來報銷個人的用品 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
再來我們的駐美代表余大雷他也被爆料說用公務車在駐外的待遇被爆料後來他自己承認曾經搭公務車和家人一起去賞櫻花 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
502.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這些案例其實跟監察院的案例其實都有類似都有類似這個過去呢其實也都有報導但是後來不了了之所以我在這邊呢剛才講說沒有告發的期限所以我就當這邊就直接跟我們部長來告發這三個案例希望呢我們法部也能夠去做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為他的行政調查呢就隨著反正就不了了之下我們這個駐美代表就沒事了所以如果行政調查不做那麼我請法務部能夠來做調查他應該呢是應該要一致的好謝謝部長部長請回另外我請一下那個我們的審計今天審計部是副審計長是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員好副審議長其實我常常都覺得我到立法院之後我覺得各部會我一直覺得審計部算是比較還有在在好好在做事情的啦有時候看你們的審計部的報告只是後來呢因為被揭發出來的很多的弊端那麼你們也越來越有些保守我今天很仔細看你們的報告的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
565.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我要特別講就是說在你們報告內容其實是非常恐怖的事情為什麼呢在你們的報告內容你們特別提到你們也是用大數據來分析分析我們很多的這些主要都是一些政府的採購案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
605.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你們在這些的這個案件裡面2900家竟然呢有800家比例將近三成喔是政府機關根本沒有依採購法去追繳押標金該追繳而未追繳你同意還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
500家 比例17.2然後 對這些不拔廠商該停權 不去停權 對不對有吧 這個情形嚴不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
632.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
請問一下我們整個透過這個數據分析的技術大概篩選出來的情況很嚴重很嚴重 是好 所以我在這邊講孰令制之啊如果我們今天要講的是建立一個青年政治避免貪腐為什麼在我們審計部他用大數據去看這個還不是去抓幣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個是你政府機關就應該依照政府採購法你應該去追繳你不去追繳這不是圖利什麼叫做圖利這不是貪污什麼叫做貪污還有你該去給他停權而不去給他停權就是因為這樣子長此以往 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
691.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其實最近 所以我剛才對監察院多所批評監察院這個月份 五月吧 對不起 五月有一個糾正案 但是我覺得糾正都太輕了這個我曾經也有踢爆過就是呢 我們警察人員 警消的防彈背心的弊端嘛對不對 你們去糾正這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
693.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個案子多麼的離譜離譜到這個廠商一而再再而三的飆到一而再再而三的驗收不過我們竟然一而再再而三的繼續繼續讓他能夠得標沒有弊端嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
716.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
738.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
沒有問題嗎 只要被糾正嗎我甚至曾經提過 這家廠商叫光顏企業多麼離譜他驗收不過 然後被列入拒絕往來名單拒絕往來名單呢 他有時效性一解除他拒絕往來名單 立刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
740.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
再讓他能夠得標他這麼神通欸這麼神通欸只要拒絕往來名單一被解除就立刻得標然後出來就是這種有瑕疵品的把我們警消人員把我們警察人員的命不當病欸我們的政府已經爛到這種地步了欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這種人命關天 草菅人命的事情而且是警察基層第一線的人員最後警察還要自己去買防彈背心他們都自己知道就是政府發給他們的防彈背心他們不敢用最後自己去買防彈背心我知道你們五月份去糾正了這個案子包含警政署吧 海巡署吧還有台營可是糾正夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
793.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
806.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以我在這邊其實我肯定因為審計部可能是根據這些數據一個一個的去追但是像這個我剛才講的案例獨獨只是糾正絕對不夠啊所以在這邊副審計長也承認問題很嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
813.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
833.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以雖然法務部長在下面我剛才就請你先回座我是覺得我們今天房攤什麼清廉說假的啦連這些政府的標案都公然這麼多的比例政府採購法在那邊是受尬是不是是在那邊只是當作是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
838.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
865.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
只是在裝飾品所以我在這邊期許我們審計部還是本於你們的過去至少我這兩年我看審計部的報告我都會看到一些東西我覺得你們有在抓我們現在政府的弊端不是這種粉飾太平要繼續抓但是我們所有相關的這些政府相關的這些政府的採購真的不能這麼爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
868.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
895.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你看我剛才講將近三成欸該追繳押標金他都不去追繳請問一下為什麼不追繳他是忙嗎是忙還是在包庇所以在這邊齁也請齁我還是請我們的審計部審計部你過去有包含什麼就業安地基金但是很惡劣啦就業安地基金他讓他要補回七千多萬他還要拿公務預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
896.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
905.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是不是 就是那個勞動部你們去追那個就業安靜基金他濫用的地方嗎目前還沒有確定那個預算來源 還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
906.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
934.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
目前還沒有 還沒有跟你們 還沒有告訴你們預算來源是是這一種還要跟 還要納稅人去編預算給他喔真的很沒有良心啦好 這個我還是希望審計部能夠未來還是確確實實的幫人民的納稅人來把關是 謝謝委員剛剛委員追尋那個防彈衣跟抗彈材料那個採購案其實我們有另外移送給台北地檢目前在整辦中 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
935.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
939.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
對應該這個案子一定要移送啦是是真的太草菅人命好謝謝謝謝委員 |