| IVOD_ID |
162118 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162118 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-02T11:04:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-02T11:21:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f1b1c5cbef0f6d9e720296edbe9e1fc352232a9b15fab92ff2f9ac16a99deee0004cc94ee87db5845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:04:14 - 11:21:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長、審計部審計長、司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「如何落實清廉政府及公務員瀆職之態樣與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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不會不會一直這樣啊今天人不多你都要講久一點沒問題謝謝溫柔和愛的朝偉平常就要保持這個樣子我們都努力謝謝好請法務部長好麻煩部長調查局長好局長然後我請人事總處好任總委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
50.535 |
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大家早安剛剛在內政委員會我們同步在審議地方制度法的一些修正條文那當中有關61條的修正草案我想剛好跟今天教委所排的這個速攤然後聯能政府的打造的這個部分相關所以我就教於幾位 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
也就是說現在啊選罷法的地方制度法的規定啊如果犯了選罷法117條然後重點就是貪污治罪條例那種重大的這種貪毒案件那被判刑之後是停職嘛那停職的期間是否應當發語心急啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.744 |
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我剛剛在內政委員會我才知道是法無名文所以過去是依人事總署的一個函文然後來授權給主管機關也就是內政部去看看這個被判刑的地方首長他是否因為被停職而影響他的基本生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
以及要去看他的違法失職的程度有多高然後來決定是完全停發他的薪給或者是給予半薪在他停職期間這是現在法無明文了所以內政委員會在審地方制度法的時候幾位委員共同提出的修正動議就是認為只要觸犯這一類的貪污治罪條例被判刑雖然沒有到最終的定讞 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
122.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.343 |
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都在停職期間一律來停止新級的核發你們同意嗎這邊我尊重那個委員的一個提案那人事總署你們同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
158.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這部分委員好 我們也尊重委員會這邊的決議我個人認為法盡量有明文比較好 否則你讓主管機關去裁量 這個是非常怪的那第二個層次就會進入第二個問題就是說如果他停職 而且都停止給予他的薪給發放但是他最終被判無罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以要復職 那復職之後是不是就應當來補回他的心脊 對不對來 人事總署 您就直接 專委 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
196.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
報告委員因為這一塊我比較不是那麼清楚不過原則上應該是應當就是好這是第二個層次我們也都同意所以剛剛我們在修正的條文有做這個處理但第三個層次問題就來了他在任期內復職之後給予他新級的補發他無罪平反了之後但如果他已經卸任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
他卸任了以後 他的官司最後定讞他被判無罪那即便他卸任了 請問他的心脊要不要一併的補發這是剛剛樓下在審議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
211.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
232.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
幾位委員的意見都還沒有一致所以我剛好藉這個機會跟我們今天的聯能政府貪瀆的這些作為相關委員很抱歉這問題我比較不清楚好那我問部長就一個當事者他一度被犯罪嫌疑人他定驗之後恢復了他的清白他的身份是地方首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
233.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
246.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那應當要補發他的心急不管他是復職的時候是在任或者是他卸任因為有時候官司走很久嘛你認不認為都應當一併的來給予平反包括他的心急的補發 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
257.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這部分如果複指的話複指的話這個法律我不清楚那這部分案理是比較合理是不是應該補發比較合理好謝謝你們的答案因為剛剛在樓下我們跟內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
265.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
293.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
跟樓下的人事總處的相關人員包括幾位不同政黨立委大家對於這件事情的法律見解不太一致但是我個人認為如果他被定驗之後平反了恢復了他的清白不論他在補發薪金是應當的而不管他是在職或是卸職都應當一併的補發這是我的主張我想部長也認為合理上應當是這樣因為現在法無明文所以我們才要入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
295.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個我們都尊重那個委員的一個立法的一個政策好因為這沒有發生過這可能目前適用就高鴻安這個案例但我們應當好好就法制面來做一下這個演繹謝謝幾位的寶貴意見那進入我今天來另外一個主題來可能是這個局長這邊這中國的直播主狂拍學童到底是單純的治安事件還是國安事件下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
322.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
339.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那陸配拍這個真的是狂拍啊那在我們培育委員5月19號就在法治委員會垂詢過警政署你們認為呢兒少權法、個資法、刑法法案明明都可能觸犯所以要來啟動偵辦5月21號肅小慧委員在陸委會內政委員會也質詢了陸委會他們更認為他恐怕不是只是治安事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
349.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
369.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
而之後呢5月26號台北市警察局已經開始巡線追查中但是即便之前告發的這個案件開始巡線追查但是又有新的一起陸配又開始繼續拍所以說他就是一再的發生一再的發生下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
370.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
而且拍攝的不只學校學校除了涉及對學生的兒少權法或是個資法或是妨礙秘密相關的可能觸犯之外可能學校都是一般大家知道的避難場所會不會有蒐集一些情搜的可能而這一位陸配我剛剛來圖案有揭示出他5月23這位叫阿梅的陸配除了去拍學校他又去拍道路警察執勤的畫面 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
399.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
又去拍了松山機場的軍機起降的畫面所以我高度懷疑他已經不止觸犯了我們警政部門認定的治安的犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他真的很有可能跟國家安全組織性的犯罪相關所以說我是很擔心啦個資法用哪一條辦妨礙秘密公開直播算妨礙秘密嗎兒少權法是不是能夠成立我實在要尊重檢察官跟後續法官的偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
但是我在追尋法務部長跟我們調查局長主要是在組織性的國安犯罪的層次那台北市警察局開始辦了那國安的部分是不是調查局也開始同步來跟委員報告我們也高度關切這一個狀況那目前我們也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
461.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
收集資料中 那有關刑事調查的部分檢察官已經都立案了那我們關切的其實是另外一個國安層面他是不是有境外敵對勢力一個系統性的犯罪的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
477.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
488.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以局長所說第一個你們也高度懷疑可能涉及了國安的疑慮這是第一件事第二件事所以你們也已經啟動了相關的偵辦的動作已經開始進行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
492.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
517.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那請問是針對一案兩案還是全面性都已經好幾案在辦現在目前已經呈現出來的這些狀況每一案你們都綜合在辦理當中然後會去了解他中間是不是有脈絡的關係好那因為這是這段時間的心生事物那希望能夠在偵辦之後能夠有具體的結果而且能夠有效的嚇阻這是我們共同的責任好辛苦了那個局長請回那部長您繼續留著不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
521.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
539.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
今天借這個機會我要再一次針對我一再催生倡議的反歧視法再一次就教於您真的是指紋樓梯想不見人下來下一頁我開始在倡議反歧視法主要是我過去在教育文化部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
540.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
552.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
在校園有非常多歧視原住民族或是歧視身心障礙或者是性別的歧視性言論教育失靈了嗎下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
554.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
573.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
但是呢 政治圈更是變本加厲 失言平平從我個人 我個人還在競選的期間就被以我的未婚單身的身份沒有生小孩的身份被嚴重的歧視說吳斯堯會絕子絕孫快50歲了就不能生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
579.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
602.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
一直到我進入這一屆的立法院我認為這一屆的新國會應當是更有進步意識的但是並沒有我們的國民黨的羅姓的委員也對著我說姐姐你這麼老了閃邊去吧這是在我們議事廳發生的事而到最近喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
603.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
631.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
大罷免的浪潮這麼的風起雲湧非常多的委員可能承擔了很大的壓力馬文君委員前幾天的把罷團說成是福壽羅是外來物種謝龍介委員詛咒別人生著小孩沒屁眼林沛翔委員把這些公民朋友把他貶義為社會邊緣人就像是狗吃壞肚子拉出來的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
634.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這些是不是都涉及嚴重的歧視性言論這個講的是對有一些的歧視的一些的意涵那包括我們的韓國瑜院長在這個辦公室朝野協商對著柯建民總召說出要吃藥之類的或者是對於我們執政黨的三位黨鞭說出一龍二鳳這種話是不是嚴重的歧視性言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
663.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
687.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個歧視的言論我想這部分我們都是不贊成的那我們覺得在人與人之間的互動應該要以那種彼此禮貌讓人家覺得很不會反感的這些更重要的是歧視性的言論要關乎的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
689.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
704.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當事者他的感受是什麼就像我們對於性騷擾這種言語騷擾一樣的如果被歧視被言語攻擊或是被人身攻擊的一方他感受到非常清楚的不愉快非常清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
705.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
722.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
被歧視就像我跟陳培宇委員我們就在這個場域被韓國瑜院長說民進黨團一龍二鳳我們當事人尤其是女性我們聽起來是完全對於性別嚴重的歧視我們當然認為一個立法院的院長不應當有這種言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
724.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
739.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 個案我們打住不再討論但是法制面如果新的國會依舊是這樣子的不斷的去涉及歧視言論的氾濫我們是立法者 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
740.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
751.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以呢下一頁我們的反歧視法台灣到底要等多久我們要讓人權條約國內法化就像今天朝偉在排的這個速攤的專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
755.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
772.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們也簽署了聯合國的反蘇灘公約嘛所以我們把基於聯合國的反蘇灘的所有的作為我們也國內法化我們推動了陽光法案等等啊但是一樣啊國際也在倡議反歧視法或者是稱為平等法都要回應國際的人權公約但是台灣還要等多久呢 夏業 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
779.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
787.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
也要落實聯合國SDGs人人平等減少不平等的目標台灣還要等多久呢下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
788.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
813.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
反歧視的條款散列在各法現行的法律欠缺一致性總共散列在至少七個法律所以我最近是非常感同身受因為立法院作為國會一個應當有進步思維應當有非常的平等思維而且作為國人表率的國會殿堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
814.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
834.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
卻一再的發生這種歧視的言論而最近大罷免的浪潮這些被罷免的委員們不能因為你身處政治的壓力當中就口不擇言啊對於公民朋友行使他珍貴的憲法父權你卻用扶壽羅這種邊緣人這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
838.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
852.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
狗吃壞肚子拉出來的東西這種在嚴重的鄙視鄙疑公民耶我們是一票一票選出來的沒有公民支持我們我們今天怎麼會有這個條件我們會有這個珍貴的機會站在這裡問政呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
855.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
879.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以部長 夏業 曾經一度是內政部要研議反歧視法或平等法後來我知道是法務部開始接手了 是嗎這個反歧視法是形成性平處的一個法規好 所以現在完全也沒有內政部 也沒有法務部因為最早 夏業 最早是法務部提出來的條文有67個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
882.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
893.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以後來是移給行政院的平等處嗎人權期轉型正義處所以法務部再也沒有參與了嗎我們會這部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
896.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
915.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
退 我們會去那邊開會那最近開會開得怎麼樣我講反歧視法講了一年了他那個在113年5月2日有辦理預告那另外在10月有預告超過這麼久的時間了他在10月有延伸會議那另外現在在重整各界的一個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
916.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
940.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那法務部您認為因為你們過去是involved最深的從2019你們委外研究而且過去的條文平等法67個條文是你們提出來的草擬的可不可能您預測一下我們可不可能下個會期反歧視法或是今年之內能夠有一個國家高度的版本我個人我一向沒有要畏快而快 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
941.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
964.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我自己的版本其實準備很久但我一直還沒有送出來是因為我要等行政院的院版我希望這樣一個大家要有社會的共識畢竟言論的管控或言論在要用法律去限制它就像我們在同樣的司法法治委員會國家安全跟言論自由怎麼去把界限定清楚同樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
965.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
987.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
歧視的言論他某種程度也是在言論自由的這個範疇裡面但是你不能夠去傷及他人的情感不能夠去貶抑他人進行這種言語的暴力的霸凌所以我認為我同意要嚴謹同意要時間換取空間但是也已經等了一年半了他這個草案是有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
988.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1002.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
是有草案 他那個草案是有六章四十六條好 那我非常希望我們下個會期下個會期能夠看到行政院院版那您所知道院版未來這個法案應該是內政司法法治委員會主審吧應該是應該是我們跟內政聯席嗎應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1012.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1040.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主管機關是誰因為他是行政院的那個那個人群組嘛對啊所以這就是一個問題啦好沒有關係我非常期待下個會期我們不能放任歧視性的言論一再的氾濫我們需要法治我們需要社會更多元的對話我也希望已經等了一年半了我們今年會有好的消息或是多努力一點我們明年能夠來完成立法好嗎大家一起加油謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1042.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1042.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 謝謝 |