| IVOD_ID |
162112 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162112 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-02T09:15:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-02T09:32:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f1b1c5cbef0f6d9eef1c464b69b330f552232a9b15fab92fc39fd917a7df395efbc34bea683b19dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:15:40 - 09:32:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長、審計部審計長、司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「如何落實清廉政府及公務員瀆職之態樣與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席開始巡大一遷先請教一下主席我們請監察院來 |
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大部分的資訊都從媒體知道所以他們現在的狀況到底是怎樣?不來是不是?沒有來,也沒有書面,都沒有其實這個我們都有通知啦我們在事前都有通知監察院但是祕書長不來,也沒有派別人過來,也沒有書面過來我們看到的是,其實這有點在羞辱立法院 |
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那個我大概具體建議一下啦看是不是召委我們司法法制委員會發個文請監察院說明一下因為到昨天突然看到李俊逸辭職的消息嘛那他辭職歸他辭職啊那監察院總是還有副秘書長吧那監察院半個人都不派來是什麼意思那監察委員現在是覺得他們自己是太上黃機關嗎 |
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他們愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹相關的資訊全體國人關心的全部都是從報章雜誌上面才能夠知道這個事情有蠻離譜的啦我是建議召委看會後的時候要不要透過這樣子的方式來加以處理因為我知道召委也蠻 |
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蠻無無奈的嘛上個禮拜好像李俊逸是不是試圖有要跟你請假有 上個星期四早上我有接到電話就是秘書長他有希望請假那我剛剛電話裡面有跟他回覆說我跟其他委員稍微問一下看狀況那因為其他委員表示說他們還是希望秘書長要過來所以我跟他說沒辦法 |
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那他有請同仁拿了一份請假的資料過來但是因為我們這邊沒有辦法準價所以我們同仁沒有收後來監察院的聯絡人他們就直接把那一份資料就直接送到立法院的收發室就直接送過去但我覺得司法法制委員會基本的規矩還是要有 |
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他要請假,歸他要請假,準不準是召委的權限從召委剛描述的過程顯然上個禮拜四上午的時候李軍營還沒打算要請辭他如果打算要請辭的話,那時候要請什麼假就直接告訴你說我已經辭職了,你要不要叫扶民署長來就好了 |
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那黃委員因為這個東西不需要經過決議嘛那我就會後我再請我們同仁就是去含詢一下監察院看監察院那邊的說法是如何好謝謝喔那個是麻煩有請我們法務部的部長麻煩部長廉政署的署長署長內政部警政署警政署 |
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三位長時間的關係不宜問候我今天看到法務部跟我們廉政署所提出來的書面報告我老實講我不知道該怎麼形容你們在今天的書面報告裡面大剌剌的寫說你們推動階幣者保護法你們推動什麼階幣者保護法我們立法院完成三讀了 |
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230.296 |
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行政部門連個草案都沒有送出來你們好意思啊 在書面報告說你們推動階幣者保護法在書面報告寫這種東西法務部也好 廉政署也好寫了自己都不會臉紅喔立法院要審法案了 山炊事情請你們提一個草案出來各種理由推脫 |
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結果今天的書面報告好意思寫你們推動階幣者保護法自己看了都不會臉紅喔我看了都覺得幫你們慚愧具體的問題我上一次請教部長跟廉政署跟廉政署檢舉結果吹哨者的身份被洩漏你們說你們要回去查 |
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285.526 |
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回去查了以後 蘇聯證書沒有做錯你們交給的是警政署 政風室還是督查單位結果這個督查單位在回函的時候結果竟然讓原被檢舉的單位回函給檢舉人這個事實的經過我沒有描述錯誤吧 |
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這個事實經過我有沒有描述錯誤報告委員大致上是正確的大致上是正確的來請廉政署署長那請問發生這樣子的事情誰要負責任就代表我們整個公務機關哪裡有保護吹哨者的意識啊大剌剌的叫被檢舉的單位回函給吹哨者啊這個叫保護吹哨者啊是我們相關的同仁教育訓練不足是不是 |
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推動了這麼多年推動到現在被檢舉的機關回函給吹哨者這樣處理是對的嗎來 請署長跟委員說明一下這個案件就是民眾檢舉到事實經過我剛講過了啦現在我只問結論啦這樣處理是對的嗎跟委員講我們這個部分還有一些需要我們再加強的我跟委員報告說我們現在針對這個部分的改進的做法先停一下 |
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393.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
推動吹哨者保護法制報告都很威脅教育訓練顯然出了問題嘛哪裡有保護吹哨者的基本意識我問你一個最基本的問題這樣處理是對的嗎你都不敢正面回覆這樣處理是不是對的曾委員報告沒有不敢回覆基於那個任何檢舉人也不一定是接避者啦包括檢舉人的部分的身份都應該保密 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
395.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
現實上就沒有嗎現實上有嗎我們很重視這件事情 對沒有保密的部分我們一定會嚴加去檢討然後去改進要如何檢討跟委員報告在這個事情上之後我們有發現了一個狀況就是說我們在當時的時候發交到政風單位我們都是以密件來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
414.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
436.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那麼到後來因為警政署的工作上比較特殊所以它的那個分工上它是由督察系統去查那後來了解是說在督察系統這邊的環節上有一些問題所以說他們也針對這個部分去做了一個行政的究責那未來的話所以該負責任的是警政署是不是我們這邊也會做一個檢討跟委員報告其實事實上來 請警政署警政署報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
440.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
465.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個事情這樣處理是對的嗎這個部分處理上是有一個不夠周延的地方那針對這部分目前追究責任的進度如何相關的人員其實已經給予行政的一個處分怎麼處分的會後給我書面資料可以嗎是可以嗎可以好來接下來請部長之前針對監察院的公務車我第一次當立委的時候我有強力質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
467.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
491.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
一個監察院才多少人啊正副首長專用車將近30台當時也是立法委員的李俊逸啊就延遲批評過了監察院的公務車使用就是浪費就是浪費嘛結果沒想到啊李俊逸今年年初在開記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
494.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
513.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
說柴米油鹽樣樣少金恩怨風骨不打折啊全體納稅人看的是瞠目結舌啊所謂的金恩怨風骨不打折啊是我們的秘書長用監察院的公務車載他的愛犬去做美容啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
515.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
530.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
結果爆出來了以後 還不只這樣還不是只有李俊逸這個秘書長結尾搭公務車去看牙醫蘇麗瓊來請教一下法務部部長這種行為構成什麼犯罪那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
536.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
557.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這部分齁那個秘書長那部分齁那個因為有這個北檢已經分案來了解了齁那另外那個從過去的案例構成什麼犯罪給全國人民科普一下嘛從過去的案例構成什麼犯罪給全國人民科普一下嘛來請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
563.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
580.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個部分那個個案的話還要經過檢查中的了解調查當然嘛他就這個行為太陽構成什麼犯罪因為這個是我對這個個案的這是媒體報導就陳錄委員講的這是不瞭解媒體報導的那這部分不是很清楚那這樣他不是都承認了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
581.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
607.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他承認的對啊 我的確思慮不周啊用購物車災愛犬去做寵物美容啊所以我現在就問你啊 這樣的行為構成什麼犯罪這個在偵查中的 那這部分我不表示表示對偵查中的一些的我們抽象的來講 可以這樣幹嗎可以這樣幹嗎還是你也不方便表示意見遇到綠色的尖尾就軟啪啪你也不方便表示意見 是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
612.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
640.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
不回答這部分因為是否涉及犯罪那個檢察會了解沒關係啊部長可能貴人多忘事啊來我提醒你一下除了蘇麗瓊以外還有林玉龍啊接下來還會爆出誰我不知道我看這個個案啊是非常非常的多啊來我帶部長回顧一下過去怎麼處理的前雲林消防局的局長私用公務車遭彈劾 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
641.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
668.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那現在大家就在看啊監察院的這些玉石大夫啊會不會彈劾自家人啊大家都在等著看嘛是不是用同一個標準還是只有監察院可以去彈劾其他公務員監委也好 秘書長也好自己愛怎麼幹就怎麼幹後來這個錢雲林消防局的局長有沒有被起訴部長知不知道還是這個個案你也不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
672.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
697.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他有被起訴這個我不清楚我告訴你他有被起訴他還被判刑了他不僅有被起訴他還被判刑了這還不是唯一的個案啊再來看當初我們賴清德總統在當台南市市長的時候他用的民族事務委員會的主委汪志敏那個時候你是不是在南捷 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
700.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
728.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那個我不是在 那時候你已經高升法務部了我已經離開台南地檢台南市府民族事務委員會的主委汪志敏違法使用公務車 一樣起訴 一樣判刑現在全體國人都在等著看啊看我們的法務部我們的檢察官執法的標準是不是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
730.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
744.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
還是看到綠色的尖尾每一個都軟趴趴不敢表示意見連是違法的都不敢講大家整個看啊看要怎麼偵辦要怎麼處理北檢搜索監察院有沒有任何法規上的障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
756.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
778.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我講的是法規上的障礙 有任何法規上的障礙嗎如果要去搜索國防軍事處所 要得到國防軍事處所長官的同意嘛搜索監察院 要不要得到監察院院長或副院長的同意那個要不要搜索 那是個案來做一個 是嘛所以我就問你法規上的問題啊 有法規上的障礙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
779.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
797.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
刑事訴訟法的規定不熟嗎還是不敢回答可不可以說說就按照法律的規定來做當然是按照法律的規定嘛怎麼問你法律的規定都不敢回答來我請教一下法務部部長坐座車出去要不要寫派車單 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
799.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
807.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這部分司機會處理什麼叫司機會處理這個駕駛會去處理這個派車單處理說今天法務在法務部長去哪裡嗎這個會我們會有派車單還是沒有派車單這是事實問題嘛這個會這個派車單會去核銷油料的這部分會寫這個派車所以司機會寫派車單是嗎法務部部長的部分會還是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
829.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
856.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
應該會 應該會嘛有就有 沒有就沒有 怎麼你自己是法務部部長 自己都不熟因為要不要派他這書信的事情 好沒有關係啊法務部部長可以在上班時間去喬他自己好朋友的訴訟嗎我之前問過你這個問題啊你說絕對不會發生這樣的事嘛你確定嗎你確定不會發生這樣的事嗎如果有發生這樣的事情的話要不要就責 來請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
858.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
881.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個就依法律來處理依法律來處理嘛好我希望就依法律來處理啊所以我今天質詢的時候我公開檢舉啊前法務部部長蔡清祥2021年9月17號禮拜五上班時間搭著公務車陪他的好朋友去找聯合再生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
883.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
909.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
喬斯人的訴訟法務部部長上班時間可以幹這種事嗎你之前是跟我講絕對不會有這樣的事嘛那現在我檢舉有這樣子的事情啊法務部要不要調查還是他卸任了沒有關係要不要調查我們再來瞭解再來瞭解我今天公開檢舉啊請法務部回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
910.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
925.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
2021年9月17號部長的請假紀錄跟公務車的派車單會後送司法法制委員會有沒有問題可以嗎我們來處理可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
926.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
944.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
需要多久下班以前送來可以嗎這樣還要拖兩個禮拜給你一個禮拜夠久了啦給你一個禮拜夠久了啦我今天公開檢舉喔法務部部長在這邊承諾說要回去了解我希望不是雷聲大雨點小第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
945.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
972.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有沒有這個事情這是客觀存在的歷史事實啊我今天公開檢舉啊蔡清祥當初有沒有請假是不是搭公務車去的可以在上班時間去敲打好朋友的訴訟喔官真敗壞至此啊我當初要質詢這件事情的時候蔡清祥下台了下台歸下台啊就跟呂靜玉一樣該追究的法律責任啊一樣要追究 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
973.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
983.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
部長 查前部長會不會有壓力會不會就依法來處理就依法來處理啊 好啊 我們拭目以待啊看你如何依法來處理啊好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 |