| IVOD_ID |
162099 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162099 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
23 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-29T10:56:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-29T11:08:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/99583f279a18fcc1eaab19d3954f0fce7d62036aaba8f190531422321b8e3e87d6c7337b7bc4e0405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:00 - 11:08:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條及第九十一條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之三條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之三、第九條之四及第九十一條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員林楚茵等20人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九十條條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「香港澳門關係條例第十條條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「香港澳門關係條例第十四條、第十四條之一及第四十七條之一條文修正草案」案。【第三案如經院會復議則不予審查。】） |
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謝謝主席 本席請邱主委好 請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.803 |
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主委好我們大家都非常肯定國安非常的重要那確實大陸近來也有很多的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.723 |
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這個威脅到台灣所以我們共同抵禦這種情況我們也要共同支持這個國安但是呢 本席手上有幾份數據報告顯示我們去年2024年因為共諜案起訴的人數是2021年的三倍之多 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
其中甚至包括不少的现役还有退役军人这代表什么这代表对岸的渗透不仅没有减缓而且更加的猖獗每位国人还有对政府高层或军队被渗透的现象非常的忧心 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
104.279 |
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所以主委您認不認同我們整個在維護國安的同時除了小老百姓更重要的就是這些掌握機密的人您認同嗎你只要回答認同或不認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.894 |
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是 我認同接著我們還看到一個更令人憂心的今年就爆發很多我們看到執政黨政府的內部包含一些核心人員掌握機密的人員也頻頻傳出被中共吸收為其工作的案例您知道這些事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
126.873 |
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150.685 |
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我想整個社會都非常關注所以相較於一般社會人士赴大陸交流的言行我們本來也應該進行種種的規範但是政府內部這些真正可能觸犯接觸我們國家機密甚至已經被對岸吸收的核心人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.452 |
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178.009 |
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我想知道我們陸委會你難道沒有版本你要去修改法令能夠有更有效的防範措施呢我們看到對於沒有機密的社會人士市場的小老百姓社會大眾我們來修法制約但是對於我們這些真正會掌握到我們國家機密的核心人員可以說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.81 |
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201.804 |
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這個執政黨身邊的自己人卻視若無睹毫無防範我還沒說可以可以等一下你講嘛所以毫無設防我們這個覺得非常的遺憾那所以家賊難防啊國之大患還有罰老百姓容易啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.865 |
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216.526 |
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但是要罰自己人很難所以好接下來請你檢答針對這個部分你剛剛說你們也很重視那請問你做了哪些具體的 |
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219.457 |
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235.336 |
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這個措施舉例讓我們知道現在共諜案層出不窮那請問你防範的機制在哪裡你可以提出更具體的國安強化措施嗎請你簡單謝謝委員對於國家安全的重視因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.361 |
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258.718 |
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防治這個共諜因為權責不在我們陸委會但是我們知道政府在做了很多安全查核的工作避免這個事情發生那我們也知道許多的共諜的查出來像在軍方雖然他變成滲透的主要對象但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.278 |
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260.48 |
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我們也發現有百分之超過將近80以上的也都是因為軍方他們安全保密做得很好自己舉發出來的所以這個方面不能否定他們的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
274.255 |
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288.946 |
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我們時間有限,我們大家都想聽,在座的每一位,甚至在網路上看的都想聽你到底做了什麼嗎?或是你幫我們的政府說,不是你的權責,那你做了些什麼?我想相關政府機關都密切合作,來減少這些共諜的出現 |
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296.331 |
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所以你說看看我們現在要修法規範我們的民眾但是我們這些真正掌握機密的政府相關的核心人員從總統府到外交部到執政黨的相關的秘書助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
316.192 |
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344.062 |
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你沒有任何的防災有已經說要加強安全查核都有在努力在做了就一個加強安全查核好沒關係因為我時間有限所以這一塊我們我相信大家聽完一定覺得你對民眾你就修法然後規範你加強安全查核我們對我們自己的尊公教的人員的加強規範都有在未來的修法應該是蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
345.29 |
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357.692 |
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未來的修法應該蠻多的因為我們今天沒有提出我們的版本未來我們修法都會強化這方面對啊 為什麼今天不提出版本這就是大家的疑問嘛我們有說明的我們還在程序當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
359.52 |
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385.558 |
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接著我們今天要討論的法案你們很早就看到這些提案了但是為什麼你知道整個提案內容可能有一些不是那麼明確比較籠統的問題你在報告書裡面也有寫這裡面有很多不確定這裡面的報告書有很多不確定的法律概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
386.579 |
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404.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
然後呢 相關規範在法案討論時再進一步研議本席很想知道 今天就請你們陸委會要提出你們的立場你們明確的表示 你為什麼不對這些法案提出一些具體你的立場跟你的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.756 |
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421.908 |
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這樣子我們要質詢我才知道你針對這些具體的做法跟你的意見是什麼你不能就全部交給說相關規範可與法案討論時進一步研議因為這幾個版本相關的這個有許多不確定的法律概念我們對於如何釐清那個要件未來在採取上才有明確化 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
432.977 |
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457.726 |
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那這我們需要跟幾個版本的委員坐下來持續溝通但是他的立法本意在強化我們的民主防衛機制在確保我們國家安全以及我們自由民主的憲政秩序來保護我們我覺得這些立法方向我們是給你肯定給你支持的你都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
459.289 |
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474.04 |
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回答我你都在廢話回答為什麼這些我們也認同這些大方向我們也認同啊但是你是行政單位你就應該要提出具體的這個明確你們的立場你不能這樣模糊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
474.58 |
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490.059 |
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我們沒有模糊啊 我們是支持這樣的修法你支持好 那OK 你既然這樣講今天我們很多法條講到配合附和大陸地區黨務軍事等等這個是禁止 就是說修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
491.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
510.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
條文裡面不能做這些事還有不得配合大陸地區具有統戰目的的宣傳行為還有不得公然發表我國非主權獨立國家系其他國家之一等等等等這樣的言論因為時間關係我不全念 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那像這些比如說我就請問你你在學術研討會上我發表了那個學界他可能不是很清楚你的所謂配合跟附和這個很籠統啊那怎麼樣叫配合怎麼叫附和還有你這個剛剛我念的這三種包含我們的賴總統他都公開講了中國併購台灣哇這個提條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
536.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.573 |
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這個有沒有觸犯分裂國土的言論或者是配合附和對岸所以本席要說的就是說還有就是說有些台灣藝人如果在商業的演出當中因為主辦方的要求可能講了兩岸一家親這樣算不算配合大陸地區具有統戰目的呢或者是有很多台灣民眾他的祖先來自中國大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
562.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
572.908 |
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他難道不能講說我們本來就是兩岸一家親或者是我們這個同源同種等等的言論所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
573.854 |
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590.388 |
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本席要強調的就是說今天你們沒有針對這些籠統的提出意見那你說要到審查的時候我看不到你的立場我看不到你這個明確的來講出來所以什麼叫併購什麼樣叫唱喝對岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
594.042 |
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618.053 |
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因為民眾啊 我們現在講的是修法你只要進入修法 民眾就有違反司法的風險他很容易就可能違法我支持委員的看法就是立法目的 我們要肯定這些委員的用心委員的用心 不用你在這邊拍馬屁我們大家好像是一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
618.853 |
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634.062 |
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你剛剛講一些如果確定那種法律不確定概念這個我們可以就有關相關要件再來形成共識我覺得你們應該要針對今天所有委員提出來的你可不可以在會後提出你們的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
635.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
662.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那主席您認同嗎就是說你本來你行政單位對於委員的提案你不是提出我告訴你每一個單位說認同當然認同不認同是一種立場但是你也要有一些比較具體的不然這樣子很模糊啊你們要提出你們的立場你不能全部你每一項都是你自己還知道這些都跟民眾的言論自由相關對那所以你應該提出你的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
664.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
671.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以是不是可以在會後我給你們時間在下一次因為我們今天只詢答我們沒有主條你們應該要提出見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
675.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
694.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
可以嗎我覺得給他們時間啊但是你要先提出來你不要都是在現場在那邊講因為其實照理我們質詢前你就該提出來不然我要質詢你什麼你就只有一個你肯定我也肯定啊對國安我們大家都肯定啊可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
695.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
716.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
是 我們這本來職責所在而且進入到主條討論的時候之前你可不可以你多久可以送來內政委員會我們會配合我們召集人的一些指示主席他要請你指示 多久可以送來他總要送來嘛我就是給你時間 你多久時間對啊 召委問你多久時間就今天就這幾條嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
726.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
732.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們在一個禮拜內好啦 可以給你更多兩個禮拜我給你打保好不好OK 好 那就這樣 好不好好 謝謝 |