| IVOD_ID |
162081 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162081 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-29T09:44:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-29T09:53:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/99583f279a18fcc1b993dba2e42ede9ffa28f537c7c679770b07ac742f6d23203729683f6b16f89a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:44:15 - 09:53:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
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感謝主席 本時邀請我們運安會的林主委好 林主委主委好 今天我們很多委員在這裡跟主委關心三峽那個重大車禍事件那現在運安會把它列為 列案調查了嘛是不是這樣這個大概是我國第一件啊 |
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有造成行人死傷的公路車禍案件我特別強調行人 行人的死傷那過去按照英文人類部規定你要造成這種公路 重大車禍的死傷要有死亡三人或者是死傷十人 或者是受傷十五人 |
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後來我當時你要記得吧主委我就要求我們運安會應該要修改內規啦你要恢復你的霸王條款就是只要運安會認定有調查必要的你都有權利去立案調查啦那現在運安會也這樣好像在今年二月把它改過了嘛是不是這樣 |
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現在這個調查 這個報案條款目前就是重要還是要用啦你本來是沒有的嘛本來有 本來舊條款也有舊條款你把它拿掉啦 後來請你們再把它改回來嘛那指揮你也把它改回來嘛所以你現在可以立案調查了啦但是你知道我國重大的行政案件有多少嗎我隨便舉個例子給你看 |
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你看2022年我就舉這幾年了啦2022年的年底啦台中公車在斑馬縣撞上一家三口啦一個媽媽跟嬰兒死亡那2023年1月啊宜蘭東山的女學生在斑馬縣上被煞車車給壓死然後同年的5月台南有一對母女在斑馬縣被撞母親捲入車底三歲女童重撞身亡 |
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143.518 |
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再來還有2023年三重發生一位台藝美國的大學生男生出門運動在巴馬縣結果拖到車撞死了我隨便寫幾個都是非常悲痛的慘案給主委你參考一下就是其實台灣過去已經發生這麼多起的重大行人死傷事件 |
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那以前運安會都沒有做類似的調查因為按照以前運安會的規範可能沒有每一個個案來看都沒有達到你的立案調查的那個標準但你把它累積來看你就知道為什麼台灣會被稱為行人地獄你個案看覺得沒什麼你全部累積你就發現這個不會是單一偶然的個案 |
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所以這一連串那是不是系統性造成的風險這當中過去都是交通部在調查警政署在調查造勢原因是不是這樣那原因是什麼不是什麼行人耗資動線規劃不良 |
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222.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
最近也有提到的高齡駕駛的管理和危險駕駛的處理第三 車種 車輛的管理或大型車轉彎視角 視角的風險還有道路設計空間規劃的問題還有用路人習慣步驟的問題 都一大堆啦那到底各個單位的調查我們有沒有辦法做一個整體性的一個研究這恐怕要靠運安委啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那主委你現在對於這樣的一種新人史上的調查你有什麼樣的個人看法嗎我想對所謂脆弱用路人的這個事故或命案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們會持續關注啦 那該立案我們還是要立案啦你只有立這個案喔 你過去從來沒有啊我相信你只立第一個案啦 三峽這個個案可能以後還會當然我們不希望發生啦 但是我們會持續關注啦那我們希望啦 今天預案會能訂出一個讓我們大家以後可以真的好好的來改善啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為郵安會的組織法裡面就有規定郵安會有運輸事故趨勢分析這個可能就了解它是不是一個系統性的問題然後要提出運輸安全專案研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但是運安會從2019年成立以來啊到現在啊你的組織章程裡面說要運安會有權要提出專案研究你給他提出兩個我找到現在只找到兩個一個是飲水人的專案研究報告一個就是貨運業專案研究報告全都沒有啦實際上沒有看過啦來我再給 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主委你參考一下國外的案例你看美國的運安會美國運安會就針對行人事故他有一個Safety Research Report在這裡在他的安全的研究報告裡面他特別有針對行人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
Special Investigation Report有沒有 他是針對Pedestrian Safety你看到吧針對行人這是美國運安會喔而且他早在2018年就提出來了他認為行人走路啊不可能連續這樣發生車禍啊因為他這邊有列出來就是車禍發生的案例啊就好像我剛剛列給你的他有這些案例所以美國運安會主動去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
356.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主動去調查然後他就寫出了這樣的一份行人安全的專特別啦他說特別研究報告這其實就是所謂國家設立運安會的目的也是你們運安會的職責啦那現在啊總算有第一件啦我覺得也可能是因為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
408.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
媒體壓力太大啦這個重大車禍引起社會很大的一個憤怒所以我覺得運安會這個時候當然是不要介入啦不管你是不是受到壓力介入啦那既然運安會正式立案調查我們希望運安會能夠給我們大家做出一個系統性的研究你就看一下 看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
436.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
台灣過去已經發生那麼多的重大的行人死亡的那個案件其實過去都沒有引起社會很大的一個反響反正就幾天新聞 過去就沒有了沒有人關心就算了那現在我們剛好利用三峽事件我們請運安會的專業能夠提供未來相關的行政該管部會能夠如何來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
464.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是是維護行人安全好不好是是這樣好好謝謝委員謝謝主委我也希望運安會能夠有一定的權威和專業才能得到社會的重視和尊重如果大家把運安會當作什麼單位啊你從立委重視的程度就看出來了給他對立委的質詢行李都不給了沒什麼立委要來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
465.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
大家覺得你這個什麼單位不是很重要所以運安會要開始要拿出自己的一個你們的權威和專業出來說服大家嘛你給大家看嘛不然你這個單位你們自己你們自己做到有什麼榮譽感說你這兩個單位服務我在運安會那你什麼單位你幹什麼的這是一個運安會啊表演的一個機會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
尤其剛我們林國臣委員對各位也有一些的勉勵啦都叫你們多交流多跟外界的所以林國臣委員賣你賣給你們台預算好了有時候要台你們都要跑到秋高你沒看 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
529.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以明年 林國仁委員會支持你們的預算我先替他講你們出國預算也好 業務費也好 業來積極主席 我們一起有共同的期望希望應安會能夠扮演該有的一個角色這樣好不好好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席 |
| gazette.lineno |
181 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（9時44分）感謝主席，本席邀請我們運安會的林主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請林主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
林主任委員信得：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員俊憲：主委好。今天我們很多委員在這裡跟主委關心那個三峽重大車禍事件，現在運安會把它列案調查了，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
林主任委員信得：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員俊憲：這個大概是我國第一件有造成行人死傷的公路車禍案件，我特別強調「行人死傷」，因為過去按照運安會的內部規定，造成這種公路重大車禍的死傷，要達到的標準是死亡3人，或者是死傷10人，或者是受傷15人才可以立案調查。不知主委是否記得，後來我就要求運安會應該要修改內規，要恢復你的霸王條款，就是只要運安會認定有調查必要的，你都有權力去立案調查。現在運安會也知道了，好像是在今年2月把它改過來了，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林主任委員信得：現在這個調查的霸王條款在重要時刻還是要用啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員俊憲：本來是沒有的嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林主任委員信得：本來舊條款也有。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員俊憲：舊條款就把它拿掉了，後來請你們再把它改回來，主委也把它改回來了。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林主任委員信得：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員俊憲：所以你現在可以立案調查了，但是你知道我國重大行人死傷案件有多少嗎？我隨便舉這幾年發生的例子給你看，2022年年底，臺中公車在斑馬線撞上一家三口，造成媽媽跟嬰兒死亡；2023年1月，宜蘭東山女學生在斑馬線上被砂石車給壓死；同年5月，臺南有一對母女在斑馬線被撞，母親捲入車底，3歲女童重創身亡；再來是2023年，三重發生一位臺裔美國男大學生出門運動，在斑馬線被拖吊車撞死。我隨便寫幾個都是非常悲痛的慘案，在此給主委參考一下。其實臺灣過去已經發生這麼多起的重大行人死傷事件，但以前運安會都沒有做類似的調查，因為按照以前運安會的規範，可能就每一個個案來看，都沒有達到你要立案調查的標準，但你把它累積來看，就會知道為什麼臺灣會被稱為行人地獄。你就個案來看，可能覺得沒什麼；若全部累積來看，你就會發現，這不是單一、偶然的個案，所以這一連串的事件是不是系統性造成的風險？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][1] |
在這個過程當中，過去都是交通部、警政署在調查肇事原因，是不是這樣？而肇事的原因有什麼呢？比方說行人號誌動線規劃不良；最近也有提到的高齡駕駛管理和危險駕駛的處理；第三，車種、車輛的管理，或者大型車轉彎視角、死角的風險；還有道路設計、空間規劃的問題；還有用路人習慣不佳的問題，總之，原因一大堆，到底就各個單位的調查來看，我們有沒有辦法做一個整體性的研究？這恐怕要靠運安會了。主委，現在對於這種行人死傷的調查，你個人有什麼看法嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
林主任委員信得：對於所謂脆弱用路人發生事故或是命案，我們會持續關注，該立案的我們還是要立案。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員俊憲：但是你只有立這個案，過去則是從來都沒有，你只立了第一個案。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
林主任委員信得：我相信三峽這個個案可能以後……當然我們並不希望發生，但是我們還是會持續關注。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林委員俊憲：我們希望運安會能訂出一個規範，讓這些情況以後真的可以好好改善，因為運安會組織法裡面就有規定，運安會的工作項目包括運輸事故趨勢分析，就是去了解它是不是一個系統性的問題，然後要提出運輸安全專案研究。運安會自2019年成立以來到現在，你的組織章程裡面有說，運安會有權提出專案研究，但到現在你只提出兩個，我找到現在只找到兩個，一個是引水人的專案研究報告；一個就是貨運業專案研究報告，剩下都沒有！ |
| gazette.blocks[15][1] |
我再給主委參考一下國外的案例啦，像美國的運安會針對行人事故有一個安全研究報告（Safety Research Report），在這安全研究報告裡面是有特別針對行人的（Special Investigation Report：Pedestrian Safety），這是美國運安會做的，而且早在2018年就提出來了。它認為行人走路，不可能這樣連續發生車禍，這邊也有列出發生的車禍案例，就好像我剛才列給你看的案例，所以是美國運安會主動去調查，然後寫出這樣一份關於行人安全的特別研究報告。這其實就是國家設立運安會的目的，也是你們運安會的職責，現在總算有第一件立案，我覺得也可能是因為媒體壓力太大，這個重大車禍引起社會很大的憤怒，所以我覺得運安會這個時候當然是有必要介入，不管你是不是受到壓力介入，既然運安會已經正式立案調查，我們希望運安會能夠給我們大家做出一個系統性的研究。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][2] |
你可以看到，臺灣過去已經發生那麼多重大行人死亡的案件，其實過去都沒有引起社會很大的迴響，反正就是只有幾天新聞，新聞過去就沒有了，沒人關心就算了。現在我們剛好利用三峽事件，請運安會就你們的專業，提供未來相關行政該管部會看看如何改善，以維護行人安全，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
林主任委員信得：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林委員俊憲：這樣好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
林主任委員信得：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林委員俊憲：主委，我也希望運安會能夠有一定的權威和專業，才能得到社會的重視和尊重，不然大家都把運安會當作什麼單位呢？你從立委重視的程度就可以看出來，今天立委對你的質詢可說是生意很差、沒什麼立委要來質詢，所以大家覺得你這是什麼單位呢？也沒什麼重要啊！所以運安會要開始拿出你們的權威和專業說服大家，做給大家看，不然像你們這樣的單位，你們自己做得有什麼榮譽感呢？如果有人問你在哪個單位服務、是做什麼的？充其量也只能回答是在運安會做事。這是運安會一個可以表現的機會，尤其剛剛林國成委員對各位也有一些勉勵，他說你們要跟外界有多一些交流，所以林國成委員明年應該不會砍你們的預算，之前就是被砍，所以你們沒辦法出國，明年林國成委員會支持你們的預算，我先替他這樣講啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
林主任委員信得：是，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林委員俊憲：你們的出國預算也好，業務費也好，他會給你們支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
林主任委員信得：是，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
林委員俊憲：主席，我們一起有共同的期望，希望運安會能夠扮演該有的角色，這樣好不好？謝謝主委，謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：好，謝謝林俊憲委員的質詢。林俊憲委員的這種期許、勉勵跟本席的看法完全一樣，其實該給的，立法院也不會吝嗇，該給的、該用的，我相信我們交通委員會所有的委員都會支持，所以在國際研究跟考察的部分，這個基本上本來就是要去做的。另外就是跟交通部的運輸研究所要連結，你們都沒有連結，你做你的，他做他的，我還是希望有連結性，這樣才有辦法改變系統性，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
接下來由陳素月委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
552 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-23-13 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
515 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-29 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1145501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1145501_00010 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1145501_00017 |