IVOD_ID |
162076 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162076 |
日期 |
2025-05-29 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-22-14 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
14 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-05-29T09:47:00+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-05-29T10:03:02+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:16:02 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/99583f279a18fcc1b3a459b190bbc1531219069fb8f2289f0b07ac742f6d2320141228277b1494e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
葛如鈞 |
委員發言時間 |
09:47:00 - 10:03:02 |
會議時間 |
2025-05-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議(事由:處理114年度中央政府總預算有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算解凍案22案。) |
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好 謝謝代理主席我們有請吳承文主委請主委葛專委好主委好昨天33會的林董說這個普天之下最大的笑話是有人說我們台灣沒有缺電但是會停電那他同時也說要發展AI不能沒有核電沒有核電不行主委你怎麼看他這個說法 |
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支持嗎我並不認為沒有核電不行但是我們當然需要能源各種各樣的能源我們都會去探討所以這個產業界覺得沒有核電不行但是主委您的意思就是可以沒有核電我們還是可以發展AI跟全天下的想法都不一樣對不對 |
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你知道現在全世界為了發展AI都在蓋核電嗎?你知道嗎?並不是每個國家都在發展所以你是說哥倫比亞共和國沒有就是沒有嗎?不是這樣講吧主要的發展AI的國家 |
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主要發展業的國家一定都是多元的能源都會探討我們也不是說核電不能探討我們也是在探討當中好所以我想不排除核能嘛對不對不排除只要符合安全還有這個核廢料處理我們都知道這個賴清德三原則啦謝謝主委那我還是要鼓勵說國客會 |
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黃仁勛在演講當中也確實有說要蓋這個AI基礎設施那為什麼一開始我剛剛一來就有點這個希望主委能夠表達您的意見是因為很多人真的是覺得沒有電就沒有AI啦那黃仁勛也講了台灣絕對要投資核能 |
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那他又說絕對要投資核能啊那您的看法認不認同他這句話台灣絕對要投資核能認同嗎大家都可以表達意見我們台灣現在還是一個所以你認不認同對不起我只想要問你認不認同我認同賴總統講的哇主委我是覺得您一個專業的科學的政務官到這裡 |
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我覺得對於一個科學的論述您都還是要選擇性的來閃避我沒有閃避 報告委員我還是覺得非常可惜啊報告委員黃仁勳的說法好 不過沒有關係報告委員戴總統是明確表達是可以討論喔那我們科學的正義對嘛 那這其實是有共識的為什麼你不能說也不反對黃仁勳的說法啊現在 現在 報告委員黃仁勳只是說絕對要投資核能啊這有問題嗎 |
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好 沒有關係啦 這個使用核能真的不應該被汙名化黃蘭胥也是這樣講 所以我想大家真的不要害怕那我們也其實看到啦 其實你自己就講了其實真的不需要去這個一定說只能支持誰的說法好不好不是說講到核電就只能支持賴總統的說法你可以支持你自己的說法 那你支不支持你自己的說法 |
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專家應該要回來研究新核能技術 支持吧當然支持可以支持嘛我公開的講很好 那我想請教你怎麼鼓勵啊要編多少經費 要吸引多少人才我們其實啊 明年的這個預算會增加但是就是 我現在就是不知道沒關係 你先照你的計畫講嘛我們也可以一起來爭取啊 對不對你不能說 欸 財劃法這樣這個可能會發生的事情我們哪些事情就做不到 |
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現在還沒啊 還沒刪啊 也還沒砍啊好不好 我們來預期一下嘛所以你預期要增加多少要吸引多少人才新核能 這是吳祖瑞講的是 新核能 我們談的新核能最主要就是現在國際上積極在發展的SMR多少 多少人 多少經費對不起 我時間有限 |
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現在還沒有確定不是已經在編了嗎你剛剛跟我說已經在編然後又要來趁機講一下說裁劃法那現在到底要編多少預計編多少編了沒其實是不是還沒啊已經規劃了但是我們不見得有辦法提到行政院因為現在因為裁劃法我們一起來努力啊我願望就是如果我明年可以編到1800億的話那是要多少 |
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這個至少要明年至少要變五億五億是不是?對就我們現有的新核能嘛新核能這個當然一則以喜一則以憂啦因為過去三年國客會投入SMR的這個經費只有1700萬 |
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這個我是不知道哪裡可以買得起一棟房子然後我們投入在新和能但是當然我覺得我們現在到五億有增加了但是事實上全世界這個條件就是明年的這個預算在財化法修正案我還沒有對不起主委我還沒有請您發言我都知道好不好我們一起來努力嘛 |
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我們看到美國的企業投入的是100億台幣起跳喔有到600億台幣當然我們不能跟企業相比啦但是我還是希望我們未來5億我們一起來努力看不管什麼樣的條件能源真的太重要了沒有能源我們沒有AI啦所以我想希望都不要受到影響那另外我也想請教你一下這個供電量的穩定度因為你們說這個多元發電啊 |
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沒有核電也可以有AI這是你剛剛的說法那我們來看一下其實每個科學園區核定用電量跟實際發電量實際的用電量其實都有很大的差距都有很大的差距有的甚至只用到一半而已 |
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那看起來電很夠啊那可是我們看台電近日的供應狀況有這個什麼彰化23號停電啦鹽城18號停電啦中壢24號停電巴黎25 26號都停電啦我想請教一下主委過去有沒有發生過台電跟園館局說因為有供電的這個狀況要請園區降低用電量或者是園館處為了配合台電的要求 |
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請廠商降低用電量的情勢有沒有發生過這樣的事情有還是沒有過去沒有過去完全沒有過去完全沒有沒有 |
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那为什么我们现在在园区还看到一堆什么节电计划啦为什么还要去搞这个光电板没关系未来可能有啦为什么因为当然嘛但是你还有那么多电嘛但没有关系我们说未来AI产业进入很可能会发生缺电的状况国会会可能还是要做好准备未来 |
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457.313 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
怎麼去因應可能AI的電量會指數型的成長作為園區的大家長希望能夠讓大家對台灣的用電有信心如果這麼有信心那你覺得為什麼大家都在敦促台灣要有核電啊你覺得為什麼啊 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.829 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.8 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
三三會黃仁勛台達電董事長大家是愛合愛到怎麼了嗎你覺得為什麼會這樣啊我們很夠啊我們很夠啊你說沒有缺電啊以後AI來了也不會缺電啊他們搞錯了是不是 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.974 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
494.857 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
大家看到台灣產業發展非常的好當然也是很期待說我們會發展的更好所以未來的用電量會提升我們經濟部也很努力經濟部也跟我們國會來保證未來園區的用電是按照我們的規劃是可以供給的其實就是要面向未來而且要 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.478 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.244 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個料敵先機嘛你要知道未來可能還會用更多啦你不能說我覺得未來可以我就躺著不幹嘛所以我們來看新的園區擴建剛剛有提到其實你們瞄準的是2050年嘛那2050年我們經濟部長只說2032年可能夠啊 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.487 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.782 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那外界很多不同看法我們就不說啦可是要到2050年要夠我們可能要做很多前期的基礎建設啊是有沒有考慮過用SMR在園區裡面早一點來研究試驗或預留空間有沒有考慮過我們當然如果經費許可的話我們一定會投入研究這沒有問題 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.154 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.711 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以我想也希望去研究一下在園區裡面為什麼這幾天猶他州開始在討論我們賴總統雖然說核能還沒 新核能還沒準備好但是全世界跑得比他腦海裡想得還快啦2026年很可能就要做一個上百到上千個SMR的一個聯合發電的一個做法 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.492 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.662 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以我希望主委作為台灣在科研上面在園區上面的指導應該要這個料敵制勝要能夠先往前看先往前做可不可以了解一下好不好好沒問題我們研究 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.564 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
587.45 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
最重要的就是要確保未來的新核能它是安全核廢料處理能夠讓民眾放心主委不用幫賴總統廣告我們都知道不會有任何一個科學家要做一個危險的核能 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.55 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.058 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我根本不用講嘛過去的核電我跟委員報告過去核電的確是不安全的確是很可能因為人為的疏失會產生爐心溶解這個事過去曾經有這種可能性存在所以未來我們要確保這個事不會發生所以我要投入研究是這個目的主委 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
613.521 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.541 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主委 這個代理主席 我跟你借一點時間我覺得主委 你這樣的一個做法我不是非常的能夠理解有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過有沒有小行星曾經爆炸過這個我沒有研究過有沒有恆星會消失 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.924 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.596 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這是common sense恆星時間到了它就會消失那我們地球人是不是要很緊張啊 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
647.56 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
667.921 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們生活的環境是不是很危險啊我覺得主委你不能這樣子去講危險性啊你剛剛的論點完全違背了國際對於人員現在的主流討論耶你現在去點出就像你剛剛去講啊哇 我們這個預算可能會有這樣的刪除所以哪些哪些事情都做不到 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
668.502 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
684.828 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我覺得不要用負面的陳述來創造一個緊張的氛圍我們科學家是盡力以社會良善的未來在做努力這一點我言盡致詞我希望您好好的報告員可以讓我講嗎感受一下 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
686.428 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
709.333 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國際SMR的研究前提也是要確保安全核非要處理可以減費我剛剛都認同我說不會有科學家去做不安全的核能發展但您剛剛想要跟全台灣跟全世界的人民強調所有的核電廠都可能發生爐心溶解這是你作為科學家在這裡歷史上已經發生好幾次了 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
713.035 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
716.218 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
歷史上也發生過很多滅絕事件啊我們需要在這裡去討論這些事情嗎你看 缺電啊主委 缺電啊 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
727.028 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
736.093 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以你看我不能說燈光這沒了台灣明天要停電了我不會這樣講好不好主委我想我們我今天時間有限我還有幾個問題要就教於您好不好我覺得我們希望能夠正向我們不要用這種負面的論述來讓大家感到緊張我非常正向剛剛委員說我講的那句話我是很正向的很正向說我邀請我們的 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
753.323 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
766.571 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
核能領域的專家回來研究我是很正向的我不是在講資訊沒有關係主委謝謝你我支持核能的專家要回來千萬不能流失最後有幾個點我想問我還是要感謝主委還有狗哥會的同仁把智慧機器人人型機器人納入到未來可能百億的計畫當中但是我們看到主委您 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
778.098 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
794.374 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有一個這個說法蠻特別的你說這個智慧機器人所有人形四隻腳的翅膀型的水下的都可以算是這個機器人這個百億的範圍這會不會有點大我想請教一下那特斯拉算不算機器人 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
795.815 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
819.928 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
自駕車如果是我們講autonomous 那自主型的 那當然是機器人那無人機是不是機器人無人機現在還不是 但是未來它是自主的 自主的無人機 它也是一個機器人那到底有什麼東西不算機器人我們講機器人是我們把它翻成中文有個人 那那個掃地機器人也是機器人也是啊 那我們現在2025年幹嘛要去弄一個這個東西呢 |
transcript.whisperx[37].start |
821.148 |
transcript.whisperx[37].end |
849.274 |
transcript.whisperx[37].text |
現在那我只問你一個問題謝謝主委人型機器人在你這百億裡面你打算要佔幾%我們沒有設定沒有設定那你會不會那所以表示有可能一百億台灣一百億人這個機器人的計畫投入金率全部做掃地機器人也有可能對不對不可能啦所以依照社會需求產業發展比例你總有個規劃吧所以我問您說人型機器人的比例會是多少有沒有預計 |
transcript.whisperx[38].start |
850.174 |
transcript.whisperx[38].end |
867.172 |
transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我不能預期我們的學者做研究會做哪一番我們是學術自由我怎麼可能限定那個比例不是 您要規劃啊否則你一百億下去你會不會到最後人形機器人根本沒有案件收不到我規劃有非常重要的原則就是這是智慧機器人就是AI來領導 |
transcript.whisperx[39].start |
869.734 |
transcript.whisperx[39].end |
883.831 |
transcript.whisperx[39].text |
對人類的服務它是一個重要的工具用各種型態的硬體表現出來都可以主要是有社會需求能夠幫助人類我們都發展主委我只是想跟您溝通現在全世界在討論的是人型機器人黃仁勛Elon Musk說未來會有100億台的人型機器人 |
transcript.whisperx[40].start |
889.597 |
transcript.whisperx[40].end |
909.148 |
transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們如果走錯方向我們現在還在投資過去20年已經存在的這些既有的東西我們很可能會選錯邊選錯路報告委員你秀的這個照片在擂台上打鬥這種不是我的目標我的目標是要幫助人類好好的生活 |
transcript.whisperx[41].start |
909.488 |
transcript.whisperx[41].end |
937.72 |
transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我是要展現他的技術主委您搞錯我意思了我們希望技術比他好我是要展現他的平衡的技術我是要展現他可以跑動的技術我是要跟主委表示這是現在這個世界上已經存在的人型機器人平衡是小腦我們要研究是大腦為主這是最重要的小腦的部分台灣的產業界在零組件供應都已經供應出去了我們有能力現在最缺的是大腦是AI |
transcript.whisperx[42].start |
939.574 |
transcript.whisperx[42].end |
958.508 |
transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以您現在好沒有關係我們未來就是希望我們的百億機器人裡面有很明確的規劃到底有多少是這個掃地機器人的大腦有多少是人型機器人的大腦我們希望可以看到更仔細的規劃我們再來一起支持好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好謝謝葛委員那請官員跟主委回答 |