| IVOD_ID |
162042 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162042 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T12:27:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T12:40:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f24dff4eeddd8a67c941b5ee1b3bf308d2ea3426710e0a50eedb165d9c3a9e3ea845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
呂玉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:27:17 - 12:40:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)） |
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謝謝主席 請陳部長我剛才延伸我們林委員剛剛想問的 |
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有勞保的人沒有辦法投農保因為我們只能一個保公保、勞保跟我們的農保就只能選擇一個那有勞保的人可以來申請農民退休儲金嗎?現在也不行不行嗎?那你剛剛說你要研議你答應靈魂要研議我不懂你要怎麼研議啊我們這樣講喔 |
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66.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
老保如果他還是有受僱於人的話是由他們的僱主去提領嘛6%那剛才我講的就是說有一些年輕人他可能20幾歲到30歲之間他是在公司服務所以沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他原來是有在公司服務他投了勞保但是他勞保之後他又轉做我們的親農你轉做親農之後的話你就不在公司工作了嗎還是同時有在公司工作他是用職業公會那就算選擇性只能一個保嗎只能一個保嗎可以雙重保險嗎不可以對不對但是他可以加入農民職業他又投勞保來加入農民的退休儲金可以這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
115.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
可以修法就可以了修法對那因為我們知道說我們有公保跟勞保的部分的話可以分開計算合併給付但是你要選擇性的你第一個階段的話如果是你是勞保後來你轉做公務人員的時候你就是沒有勞保了要改成公保 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
被停掉一個才可以繼續另外一個但是你的年資可以繼續計算是這樣子才分開計算合併來給付但是你現在把勞保可以繼續保勞保那你又可以來申請農民的退休雛金我跟委員報告齁這樣子雙保啦不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
145.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
老保退休金老保年金他不能領老保退休金他如果來加入我們農業退出儲金的話就不能老保退休金 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
178.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他可以保勞保不能領勞保退休金他可以來領農民的退休儲金法要修得清楚我也請部長到時候要講清楚不同的保險可以這樣子那當時我們是一個階段的勞保完畢下個階段是公保才可以分開計算合併給付你現在是同時有勞保又同時有農民退休這個儲金勞保對應的是農保啦他現在勞保就不能來保農保 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但是他在農保的時候他沒有雇主嘛而且他是實際從事農業你的意思是說他繼續保勞保然後繼續又可以這邊申請農民的退休儲金喔所以是兩個不同的保險他一定要從事農業勞保對應的是農保然後勞工的退休儲金對應的是農民退休儲金那他的勞保可以繼續保嗎勞保繼續保啊農民退休儲金繼續儲嗎我們可以開放他可以加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
208.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
236.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為他實際從事農業這裡 這裡輕容一半喔 幾乎一半喔所以他可以做兩個工作沒有你投勞保是不是要有勞保的工作他是一個職業的工會去投保嘛職業工會 你在工會上你有等於說不管你是個人的工作還是工作室還是自由業反正你有投勞保的人可以投我跟委員說明一下喔像漁會 漁業的 從事漁業的有很多是勞保的喔很多是從事勞保 就是甲類會員的部分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
237.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
247.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
同樣的修法講清楚因為本席今天不是問這問題只是這個延伸樓會有很多的爭議的地方我們會把它釐清會有雙保不是兩保並行會有衝突的地方我們會把它釐清一定要注意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今天我們主席特別安排了我們農民的退休儲金的部分就是因為你們的執行率不好但是早上聽到部長你特別有講到你有報告所以是母數的計算不一樣因為我們得到你們農業部給我們的資訊是28.7%的達成率 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那但是你的說母數不一樣你們達成了已經49%了那不要在數字上變化我們講實質確確的來執行的工作才是重要的那不管怎麼樣講未滿65歲他們的農保人數這在這邊是大概達成的還是28.7啦將近5年的時間了那部長講說大概他的原因就是意願的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
還有就是說他們的能力問題投不了這麼高如果說以勞基法的話我們現在是28590他如果說是10%的話要2859元那有些人攪不起嘛所以他就沒有來投入那最重要還有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就是他們那個老農津貼啊現在可以領多少錢8114元他也許說認為我8100塊夠了但是部長你們利益良善你希望他能夠一萬兩萬領多一點嘛所以希望他們的農民的這個退休儲金但是退休儲金的部分的話我們看到你的沒有達成執行率不彰的情況之下可能就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
提出的誘因不夠 那當然我們有提到啦 誘因要提高的話 是不是你們對等這個提撥的金額可以提高 甚至說可以1.5倍那部長說還要再研議嘛 那這個研議的話 我看你要下個月你就要提出來行政院版本了 那你研議目前討論下來 是不是願意支持這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
370.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不過我想基本上委員所提的版本是1比1.5是把總額提高嘛就是農民出100我們政府出150嘛從100變成150這是一個方案那我們也提到另外一個想法就是說總額不變100對100但是過去農民交100現在只要交80或70這個我們要討論就是說他的負擔減輕了保障不變那也有可能這兩個案子可以某個程度的融合啦融合的部分這是一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
405.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不管你怎麼融合農民的權益不能損失我絕對不會請你盡快提出來啦我們希望實質的來幫助農民不要讓農民覺得很辛苦的話就不耕農了因為現在青年要返鄉去雇農的話這個情況也不是很好嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我們在地方上才會成立這個青農把我們做代耕的工作不用再交給電農由青農來做青農組團來做不管是耕種或是收割青農都有專業的包括還有科技智慧的技術都有來協助我們這部分的話也請部長要繼續支持我們的青農尤其農機具這個部分就要支持他們他們有用無人機來灑農藥或是用機械來收成這部分都非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們農機的農事服務業現在推的也還不錯包括您桃園那邊有很多大的專業農來申請農機的服務所以除了他自己耕作以外他還服務別人所以我們農耕可以改善他的辛苦可以用科技上的一些技術跟設備來幫忙這點部分的話我們也希望部長能繼續支持他們可以加強他的農機具方面好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好 接下來要請教的就是我們的移工的問題那現在我知道你們移工的人數有提高到2萬這2萬的話我們看看我們申請的制度上需不需要來檢討因為還很多人請不到這個農事的移工那尤其是說你們在這個小型的10人以下的跟我們的農企業的部分的話本勞跟外勞是1比1嘛對 本勞跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
移工是1比1吧一個本勞就可以請一個移工嘛對不對那食人以上的這個小型的農戶的話才會有35%這工作喔但是現在還是缺很多移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
541.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那部長你知道這個原因嗎我想第一個 制度上有沒有問題第一個部分就是移工申請來了以後的品項有的品項有開有的品項沒開那這個部分我們會滾動檢討第二個部分就是移工請來以後不是那麼單純白天做事晚上就讓他亂跑你如果自己自營的話你就要準備他的房子還要做一些管理吃住的地方對吃住的地方所以我們現在有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
542.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
566.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那個農會去協助變成一個外展 外展的部分那這個部分我們會加強還有一個就是移工那時候外展的部分只能在同一個縣市嘛有時候我們收割的時候是有跨縣市的從南到北所以我們在研議就是跨縣跨區跨區的部分所以很多問題就是我們遇到了我們就想辦法去解決讓農民來這個我想我們會持續來滾動檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
OK 部長你剛剛提到了外展你知道外展的特性是什麼嗎外展的特性就是它的基數 你喜歡講基數 外展的基數是什麼沒有 它會根據你的用工的單位本身所需要的勞力的種植生產的技術所以會不一樣會用農漁會來做申請嘛用農漁會 為什麼用農漁會申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
616.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
沒有 合作社也可以啊合作社也可以那因為部長你剛才談到少了一個問題我們很多的農作是季節性的是所以如果你請這個移工的話我不需要12個月都在做事是好 也許做三個月 休三個月做三個月 休三個月有這種情形所以很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
619.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
小戶的那個農戶的話他們也許用電農幫忙耕作就可以了那現在電農工資上漲了2000塊以上他們有時候收成起來又比例上的話覺得收入不好也沒有辦法做就會影響到他們請電農的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
650.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
意願所以就辦休耕就有休耕期發生那現在你有這兩個制度方面的話那因為原額的話你剛剛提了高到兩萬那這兩萬裡面的話但是你又不是實質的數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
652.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
672.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
又不是實質的數量 本席有查了一些資料齁看到你們那個 這個原額 我們第一個講到這個原額不夠還有你的制度 1對1的就是外展部分跟10人以下的部分 是1比1的方式那你如果說10人以上的部分的話 你是35%但是這原額還是不夠 遠遠還是不夠因為有些的是屬於大戶的農戶嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
707.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他有些的外銷的他做多的有機蔬菜或者是他有什麼水果大量要出口的他農業的一些移工就還是不夠所以制度上你必須要去做調整喔那還有說你增加到兩萬人那本期查了一些資料喔這兩萬人裡面現有的這個移工喔一萬一千兩百零五人失聯的有兩千零一十九人輸出的有三百八十五人回國的回去他們國家的回國的有一千五百三十三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
708.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
722.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
為什麼要把他們算在兩萬人以內他已經四年轉出會回國啦我們現在要講限職部分我們要提高到兩萬人啦我跟委員報告齁您這個資訊就是勞動部都是用累計的啦用累計的部分想回國的就扣掉了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
725.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
754.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
必須要扣掉回頭一定會扣掉轉出也會扣掉啦是就是實際在從事農業的我們才會去算啦現在大概是一萬五千多人一萬五千多人我們核准是兩萬人嘛但是有申請然後正在申請的現在在職的啦在職大概一萬五千多人是所以後續跟委員講的這個部分包括移工的部分季節性的部分所以為什麼我們要找農會因為農會可以服務更多的不同的農作物的產業嘛所以可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
755.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
772.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不是啊 我剛剛跟你講的制度面就是要討論到農會的部分農會如果他的員工50人他的隊長就可以申請50人但是你在這個區域裡面的話這50個人他還不夠用啊沒有 所以我要去想辦法去爭取他現在是1比3嘛想辦法變成1比2這樣的話他就可以拚得更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
774.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
790.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有一比二 不是一比一嗎沒有 一比一是十人以下就是一比一那你比例怎麼調 你一比二怎麼調的我們希望說更多啦他可以有本勞 一個人可以顧兩個嘛所以這個還沒有公布實施吧沒有 我們這個要去爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
791.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
797.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以未來你會公佈實施所以你也發現問題了所以你要做個調整對不對這樣的話他可以聘更多人那部長有發現這個問題的話趕快做調整來公佈讓我們的農民可以繼續把我們的農作物做得更好好不好農民權益一定要捍衛的好一定會支持你做調整出來盡快送來好不好好謝謝 |