| IVOD_ID |
162031 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162031 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T11:52:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T12:11:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f246b1470d342d99ccee795f59f7b69f6aea3426710e0a50eed604f80897a2691b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:52:33 - 12:11:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算決議有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結報告案64案(含報告事項51案及討論事項13案)。
二、審查
（一）行政院函請審議「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（二）委員林月琴等16人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（三）委員何欣純等16人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（四）委員王育敏等24人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（五）委員邱若華等16人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（六）委員黃捷等21人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（七）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（八）委員李坤城等22人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（九）委員陳培瑜等19人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十）委員郭昱晴等21人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十一）委員陳素月等16人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十二）委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十三）委員王美惠等19人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十四）委員林淑芬等25人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十五）委員王正旭等18人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
（十六）委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「兒童托育服務法草案」案。
三、
（一）繼續審查委員王育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）繼續審查委員劉建國等16人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案。
（三）繼續審查委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利法第八條、第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
（四）審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「病人自主權利法第九條條文修正草案」案。
（五）審查委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「病人自主權利法增訂第十六條之一條文草案」案。
【第一案及第二案，綜合詢答】
【二、第（一）、（六）及（七）案，如經復議則不予審查；第（八）至（十六）案，如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
【三、（四）及（五）案，如經復議，則不予審查】
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 先請CDC的署長請署長署長要因應這個疫情再起那相關的防疫的物資應該剛剛聽你的說明跟報告應該都準備就緒嘛是那有預估現在是五月我們就直接講六月七月八月有可能在台灣的確診人數這三個月大致上是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.735 |
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你們有抓出來嗎應該是說我們有針對比較高峰期的那個禮拜大概可能會超過20萬人份一個禮拜就超過20萬人一個禮拜是指六月份的哪一個禮拜六月底七月初六月底七月初好那如果以六月加七月總共可能你們預估會確診的人數是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.436 |
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74.713 |
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你不可能只有抓一個禮拜嘛對啊 應該主要還是在這個前後幾週啦那應該是說可能大概一抓出一個禮拜將近20萬人會確診為什麼沒有辦法抓出6到7月這60天到底台灣人會有多少人在確診8月底是有估了大概171萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.514 |
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80.781 |
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到8月底有將近170萬人所以等於6、7、8月總共會有180萬人等於每個月將近有30萬人會又被確診 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.402 |
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110.854 |
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是這樣嗎?是不是?就最高的時候大概是二十幾萬人次啦你為什麼一直要跟我講最高我在問你六七八嘛那你一下回我一個星期一下就回我到八月底對 到八月底八月初的時候是一百七十一萬人左右八月初?那等於是六七月兩個月就會有將近一百八十萬人確診喔是 差不多是這樣喔?是是是 |
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111.946 |
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就稍微補充一下就因為我們一起來去評估跟CDC這邊食藥署的我們評估起來預估會去就診不進去確診就診的時候我們會會評估要2.5倍的快篩的試劑的量所以預估會去就診因為因為有很多的感冒的有時候是流感不是啊FDA的署長我是在問確診你在回答我就診 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.082 |
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158.813 |
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對就是說我們是利用健保署的那個診斷碼去估那大概就估大概是170萬剛剛我跟您說的就是到8月初的時候大概170萬左右是確診嘛對不對就是說應該說臨床診斷有包括醫師的診斷還有加上這個快篩陽性的部分是你們有沒有相關的計畫可以降低這樣的確診人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個部分所以我們在昨天記者會有說呼籲民眾自主的戴口罩也就是說到了醫院或是大眾交通工具的部分這個第一個是可以戴口罩那第二個就是在這個長照機構的部分我們有請這個長照機構這邊加強注意感染管制的一個措施還有就是說如果可以接種疫苗的話也呼籲這個就是長照機構很簡單我的問題也很重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.967 |
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208.62 |
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如果你們預估從6月、7月到8月初等於是兩個月時間而已啦那你們如果預估可能在台灣有將近高達180萬人確診的情況之下那你們應該趕快提出相關的因應作為跟計畫是不是可以降低這樣的人數嘛所以你看180萬短短兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
212.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你要知道這些醫療機構能夠承載嗎像現在整個醫療的這麼緊迫的情況之下如果這兩個月又面臨到有180萬人去確診這些醫護真的會疲於奔命啊醫療會崩壞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主要還是以在輕症為主啦所以我們在這個診所跟醫院的部分事實上都有提供這個口不開你不能保護我就輕症為主啦你保護我這樣就不夠專業吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
現在台灣的醫療什麼情況我相信你比我都更清楚是部長也更應該更應該了解到這個狀況所以現在不是親中症現在議員說我們有呼籲就是如果是就是說你相關的物資都已經齊備你也召開了這個記者會但是你應該要提出一套更積極的作為來應變如果降低這兩個月不要達到180萬的台灣人再度確診community可以吧第一個是可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是可以吧可以提出這樣的應用作為降低這樣的確診人數可以吧不要讓台灣的醫療在這兩個月又漫入的黑暗期導致整個醫療崩壞導致很多的醫護到時候又有很多狀況沒有辦法在這個工作崗位持續的守護台灣的國人的醫療健康可以吧可以一個禮拜一再提出來好不好好謝謝兩位請回請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
部長我剛剛講這個事情非常重要我也不希望你當了部長之後還在披雨奔命在應付COVID-19如果短短兩個月內要去應付180萬即便輕症是70%那代表還有中症跟重症有30%台灣的醫療力量有辦法去應付這樣的事情嗎我們會趕快提出具體的一個策略好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
343.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我最好就是不要達到那個數字,數字就對了好不好我這23號,4月23號在委員會提出,跟部長也提醒就是國內的這個醫院被駭客入境的問題非常嚴重對不對那從去年,今年的2、3、4月也都傳出醫院被駭的這個狀況發生我在問的時候,5月6日會不會有相同的情況繼續發生結果又發生了嘛,5月 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
虎大醫院這個駭客入侵而且這是自己人內部人員駭進醫院的系統裡面瀏覽病患及醫護人員的個資這是一個個案嗎台灣的醫療防護系統怎麼這麼好入侵啊不僅是中國的駭客看到病患資料連內部員工都有辦法入侵而且還可以隨意瀏覽病患的個資這是聯絡報的一個報導我們的衛福部的資訊處的李處長李處長有在現場吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
請他出席一下好不好來到台上齁你看齁 他說針對醫院的資訊安全的維護及管理目前外部共列53家關鍵基礎設施的醫院五大醫院並未列入依規定若發生治安問題不須通報不須通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
李處長,你在哪裡?不好意思,李處長剛剛有來,他10點半換成副處長好,他有事先提出他10點半要離開嗎?有,他有提出,10點半,他有提出10點早委的資料裡面沒有喔?喔有啦,對不起,10點半王副處長嘛,對不對?王副處長,李處長的答覆這樣是對的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
447.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
陸域規定發生治安問題不需通報因為虎大不是在53家的關鍵基礎設施的醫院是這樣嗎他可以這樣答覆嗎可以嗎跟委員報告因為依照自通安全管理法只有關鍵基礎設施依照什麼法 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
472.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
司通安全管理法有明確規範關鍵基礎的這個設施的意願才必須要通報就是他依法需要通報那本部有建立一個資安情勢收集到底要不要通報 明確表達好不好 要不要通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個東西的話,就在治安各自法裡面的話,要通報的只有那53家醫院所以超過這53家醫院的話,這個是不用通報但是我們可以做行政調查,所以我們已經請醫事司委託衛生局去給他做行政調查醫生這個辦法規定是除了關鍵基礎設施的醫院需要通報?需要一小時之內通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一小時內就要通報嘛,對不對?不是就不需要通報?不需要一小時之內,還是要通報所以還是要通報嘛,分作一小時跟一小時之外就對了啦所以你剛剛的解釋,還有包含你們副處長的解釋有點奇怪但我裡面寫這麼清楚,你們要這麼對外講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
519.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這是你講的沒有錯吧?依規定論發生資安問題不需通報你後面才在補一區一個小時內跟一個小時外一個小時以上你們可以這樣對我解釋嗎?所以我覺得這可能就是你要讓我再問下去嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
562.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
要不要通報嘛就是說他一小時外的話是要也是應該醫院發生這些事件都應該這是治安問題耶能容許這樣對外隨便講講嗎你有相關的辦法的依據該通報就通報啊然後什麼叫做治安問題不需要通報我覺得這可能解釋的過程中他沒有完整的所以要怪記者要怪這個報紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
565.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
警部長在開始下轍報導醫院發生這個入侵事件之後還接收到另外的報導說這個院內這個去 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
做這樣的一個事件的人是為了競選公衛的代表他當用多名醫護人員的戰力幫自己投票同時發現提告後 後續又查出他利用遠端連線 駭進醫院的資料庫瀏覽病患及醫護人員各自包含第一名某林志明家族內上萬病患的各自恐外洩教育部教育部有了吧你們做什麼樣的因應的作為跟處置我倒是教育部管的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
609.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
府大醫院應該是衛護部吧衛護部管 那就教育部請回 抱歉我想這個可能媒體的報導是不是完全掌握到實際上的情況我相信你府大醫院他們的一個制度一定會因為他們醫院也不是很大所以應該會做立即的處理不應該讓他再繼續使用院內的公務一定要把他塑限 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
部長你講的說這個報導應該接近屬實嘛對不對你剛剛答覆我是這樣嘛沒有錯吧那如果是這樣這可能要再去確認一下他但是你剛剛已經有答覆我這樣了耶沒有我說可能我的意思是可能啦好不好沒關係也就是說可能接近屬實嘛完全掌握到真實的狀況啦是我要表達齁我反而不是針對院方 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
669.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我要針對務務部你們的SOP是什麼你們的解釋依據法律的解釋管理辦法的解釋然後產生的SOP是什麼如果這個報導接見屬實還是它是屬於一個屬實這一個醫師人員現在還可以在醫院裡面然後進行這樣持續性的讓病患的個資再外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
713.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個跟委員報告一下我們的SOP,那就是在非關鍵基礎設施醫院的這部分是由醫事師指導衛生局,所以已經第一時間去做行政調查醫事師主導,醫事師要調查醫事師市長請上來,你主導了嗎?你調查了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
748.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我要講補充的是我們發文給新北市衛生局這邊就醫院管理這邊做調查然後因為各自的洩漏的部分的話醫院的全責主管機關我們這邊會督導衛生局做調查做事件後面的調查為什麼說發文事件當天其實就發文下午我們也是見報之道的我們就是下午當晚的時候發文然後那目前只知道這一個員工目前是停職的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
756.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
事件發生之後你們就發文了你等一下把那張公文傳給委員會做參考可以好然後你什麼時候督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
775.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為現在調查回來的東西我們還沒看到所以我們會再問一下衛生局目前然後可是衛生局初步的回報因為檢調機關已經進入調查所以他們現在手邊有的東西這個地方我會再確認檢調單位調查是檢調單位要調查嘛你們的行政調查還是該啟動嘛你們該督導還是該督導嘛對不對沒錯好 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
781.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
798.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
部長 我在這邊具體的建立好不好 要求大致三項是不是重新檢視這整個資安通報制度不論規模 只要病患擱置外泄餘力就必須要進行資安的通報一再辦法也是如此至於那個一個小時以內 一個小時以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
799.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
816.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我想可能要修吧那第二個同時衛生部及地方衛生局在接為醫療院所資安通報之後整個應變機制及醫院醫療院所要進行的應變措施也必須重新檢討是可以啊可以兩周內是不是可以提出相關報告好沒問題好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
817.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
844.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好,其他請回,最後,最後對不起,主席抱歉,因為剛剛黃先生、張偉有特別跟部長在之前已經有聚焦過,台灣能不能承受一個兒少專職的單位嘛,那部長也有做一些回應嘛對不對,但是到現在就是還沒有看到具體的這個,這個,就是跨出這一大步嘛,就是沒有嘛,顯然沒有就會出問題,剛剛黃偉特別引用嘛齁,確實是容顏, |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
846.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
852.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
農年台灣的出生寶寶是3萬,你知道12年前的農年台灣出生寶寶是多少嗎?部長知道嗎?12年前的農年啦12年前喔?應該不難嘛不難啦,你都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
873.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
895.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
衛生部有一個兒少的單位專門在注意這個出生率的嗎?衛生部出生率是國發部沒有錯啦,國發會衛生部要來照顧這些兒童基本上年十二年前的熔岩的出生率出生人數是多少都不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
898.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
你不要說差不多20萬,原本是26萬,除了6萬,你找到多少?19萬19萬是兩年,12年當中的兩年,剛才說差不多20萬,也有1萬,也有22萬現在剩19萬,第二年剩幾萬? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
917.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
922.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
從小嬰一直到賴總統甚至要進入到2.0那如果我們看到少子化整個這樣的一個脈絡出生率降低的速度之快 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
942.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
970.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
衛務部會攔此其咎這其一那其二要成立這個專責單位不是現在才講而且剛剛洪遠特別是提到這個已經有很多人講過了我要跟部長講大致上你可以看我們多麼凌亂過去列政部還有個兒童局對不對主改之後創到沒了就中年了然後變到社家屬之後看起來好像是社家屬是兒童業務的單一窗口但是其實兒少的業務是很複雜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
972.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
994.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個我想旅策也很清楚0到2歲這個大家都很清楚兒童同意服務社家屬管2到6歲幼兒園變教育部管兒童安置是社家屬管兒內又變成保護師管對不對然後凱凱安跟副長從社家屬保護師到地方政府都有份甚至以負責凱凱收出養的兒護聯盟以他進來是歸教育部管的文教單位你覺得有複雜嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
999.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1006.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我一直說那個燕子,那個燕子是我們的社會安全網有接到的,不是沒有接到,結果接到之後生命又放棄了,所以你知道看,內政部還有一個稍委會,警事務署還有一個副優隊, |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1015.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1038.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
你看 花幾個部會 花幾個機關啦齁這個問題我要給部長跟次長做參考我想你們都很用心的在為台灣的醫療在示威去發聲了嘛那我們現在為兒少更積極一點嘛 也可以借鏡日本在2013年喔 對不起2023年他其實是 他已經整合了叫做兒童家庭廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1040.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1061.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
他之前一樣他兒童的相關的保護照顧的業務也分散在他們的這個文部科學省後生勞動省內閣府警察廳跟我們現況差不多啦跟我們現況差不多但是畢竟在兩年前已經正式整個完成叫做兒童家庭廳有其必要吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1064.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1076.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有其必要來依據這樣的一個參考不然你看社交組社交能力的分配女士應該會很累社交組署長也應該會很累老人福利組12個人身心障礙福利組18個人婦幼18個人兒少17個人家庭支持組21個人一個兒少出生率越來越低只有17個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1092.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1116.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
一個老人越來越多2021已經生不如死現在已經賴到超高齡社會百分之二十、六十五歲以上的老人人口快速結構的轉變專門在照顧這個最弱勢的老人、兒童、婦女、身障朋友的一個社會家庭署竟然才各組的分別才多十幾個人這不在應付啦這不在處理事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1124.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1137.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好不好 我請部長還有次長是不是盡快研擬應該是一個月內是不是可以參照日本的做法來因應台灣要照顧更多的兒少讓這個專責單位趕快成立起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1138.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1161.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
哪怕它是一個三級機關哪怕它是一個部會你只要一發動我想所有的委員都會幫你去跟行政院阿Q這件事情嘛是 可以吧可以 我們覺得這個是非常必要的好而且一直真的積極在人力中好 那一個月內喔嘿 好這樣才代表積極嘛 好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝次長 謝謝各位好 謝謝六位委員 |