| IVOD_ID |
162030 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162030 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T11:49:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T12:09:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f243fc54d1957e362181b5ee1b3bf308d2ea3426710e0a50eed5ffaa6d71c87aaa95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張嘉郡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:49:53 - 12:09:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。
二、本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。(詢答)） |
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謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長 |
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我想呼應一下這個陳廷飛委員我想有關於這個老農津貼的牌付條款是不分朝野大家都想要為老農爭取的因為現行的這些規範的確是對我們的老農非常的不公平我想要知道說部長您可以再明確的表達一下針對牌付條款這個部分要放寬要提高要鬆綁的部分您的態度是為何呢基本上在 |
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71.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
上上個會期吧我們立法院有一個討論然後後續我們就提出一個農委會的那時候農委會的一個版本是那在那個版本裡面我們也支持這個排布條款做適度的放寬大概會放寬到什麼程度我想我們在還沒有經過行政院確認同意之前我們不適合說是放寬到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但是你覺得有符合 你有可能會符合一般老農的期待嗎我不知道 因為每個人的期待可能不一樣 但是基本上委員所提到 很多委員所提到的要根據有一些它的物價指數跟那個調整我們大概也是參考這樣的一個調整的方式去設計的那大概多久可以把這個決定發出來呢我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們不會提出一個建議 因為最主要是需要一些經費所以我們必須在行政院獲得行政院的支持嘛放寬 你的意思是說經費的部分一定要行政院支持但放寬不需要經費啊沒有你是說放寬之後會增加的部分的經費 了解那這個部分我想一定要得到行政院的支持所以我們 那你們有試算過大概會增加多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
124.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們現在試試算 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
134.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
大概30億左右大概30億左右那可以幫助非常多的老農所以這個要請這個我們部長要據理力爭為我們的農民發聲尤其這是為我們台灣付出了一輩子的老農我覺得非常需要那個部長可以幫他們說幾句話那最近前陣子因為這個低溫的影響導致雲林縣包括可能雲林以南的這些荔枝 酪梨 結果率不佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那經縣府爭取這個天然災害救助之後農業部也已經公告了那這一點我必須要代表這個農民給農業部肯定就是說非常的迅速那但是呢接著還有另外一個嚴峻的問題就是這個柑橘類的果樹到目前為止普遍也是結果率偏低不曉得那個部長知不知道這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
213.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
說明一下就是有時候這些多年生的果樹從開花到結果有沒有那有時候像荔枝您知道荔枝花開得很漂亮但是它結果率不好同樣的我們觀察到結果必須確認的時候我們就確認了所以我們就很快的開了那柑橘類的時候它一樣它會先開花然後結果的時候那個生理的弱果是情況怎麼樣所以我們可能還要再觀察一段時間大概多久呢大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
214.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
6月底到7月中目前我收到的消息我直接問農業部他是跟我說6月中下旬所以我們希望是越快越好因為這些農民其實是非常焦躁不安的那也很擔心說他們一整年的努力就要付諸流水了那他們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
253.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
非常的焦急那希望說農業部我們趕快啟動這個四方會館趕快去現場看然後解決他們現在焦急的部分讓他們可以得到這個應有的協助那這一點要請部長多多加油 敬訴不要等到七月七月我覺得太久了這個要因為現在天堂的關係可以去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們一定立即第一時間就去看這一點一定要請部長要求一下他們要盡速的不要說等等等到農民都已經沒有希望了感覺無望了對不對那另外呢上個禮拜上個禮拜本席有向您追蹤這個季節性的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是那個農業移工新制的問題那農業移工是有季節性的這個需求問題那如果申請之後還要向勞動部進行維持一個90天的審查可能早就錯過了這個生長跟採收的季節那塗增這個農民的困擾那部長上個禮拜有答應說你會親自跟勞動部紅部長談然後把農業移工拉出來單獨審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不曉得談的這個結果如何我第一個部分我跟委員報告就是上次您問了以後的第二天吧我就院會我剛好勞動部長就坐在我旁邊我就親自跟他講了然後他第一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
342.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在規定上面來講他們是七天加七天再加一個審查期所以他們會從更簡化的方式然後同樣的農業部有責任農業部在第一線審查的時候以現在來講我們農糧署在處理的話大概是三個禮拜到四個禮拜甚至於再加上前面的作業的話可能要到一個月去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
342.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我也希望說我們農業部本身在出核的時候也要簡化那個流程那勞動部在審查的時候也簡化的話那這樣的話時間就可以有機會去壓縮 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
372.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對 這個就是本席要講的 因為本席也問了這個勞動部喔勞動部的意思就是說 欸 他們好像只要幾天 好像是15天以內7天加7天嘛對 7天 就是說15天以內就可以那如果假設90天 扣除到他的15天這等於是農業部一個部會要審查60幾天欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
390.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我也曾經查過我們農業部現在平均的審查大概是一個月到一個半月四個禮拜到六個禮拜但是勞動部那邊的7加7他也不會那麼快因為他還有他們有去算他的行政流程還有最後的會議的審查那個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以就是希望說農業部的部分除了說已經部長已經很迅速的跟勞動部溝通了那我們農業部是不是內部也自我要求一下說我們剛才說的我們內部也會加快 要趕快簡化這個流程勞動部有一部分他們提供的資訊我們還要再check一下理論上是7加7天但是還有一些行程還有審查的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
416.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
441.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對 所以我也希望說如果說有什麼需要調整的部分儘速的趕快去解決趕快去解決讓它簡化我們跟勞動部大概溝通無礙我想我們會一起努力好 OK 謝謝這一點也請部長繼續幫我們農民追蹤因為這個很多就是需要移工的這些農民大家都非常的關心尤其因為可以從1.2萬的這個移工增加到2萬其實對於整個整體臺灣農業我想也是幫助非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那接下來我本席也想要請問一下有關於那個進口豬肉含瘦肉精的事情前陣子連續3批的豬肉都驗出有萊特多巴胺那針對這樣子的食安警訊食藥署卻表示說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不會再提高這個抽樣的比率也拒絕公佈流向那導致有很多國內的豬農他也很憤慨啊無法理解說為什麼政府會這麼的雙標面對進口的豬肉可以這麼寬容這麼低調那對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
477.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
480.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
國內的養豬產業只要一有違規就會立即加強查核然後嚴格開罰這不但讓豬農覺得是雙標到極點也覺得被犧牲被忽視甚至我們一般的這個消費者也覺得很無奈啊怎麼會這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
514.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果假設流入校園怎麼辦呢那他們如果不小心買到怎麼辦呢所以我也很希望說部長可以去理解我們豬農的一個心聲那因為農業部也一直強調說要守護台灣的農業那是不是部長也要跟這個食藥署這邊包括衛福部這邊來表達一下你的立場呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
515.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
539.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
基本上農業部的立場就是要確保我們國內的豬產業能夠持續發展這是一個非常重要的至於說進口的豬肉是由衛護部主管我在這邊也要做一個說明其實衛護部在邊境把關的部分農業部是防疫的部分他們是檢疫的部分能夠讓他進來一定是合於國家的標準沒有說他不合於國家的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
540.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有一些誤解我覺得必須要澄清但是以農業部來講我們一定讓我們國內的豬肉更有品牌更有市場區隔是 那本席想要請教您知道現在食藥署針對豬肉抽樣的比例是多少嗎這邊有講到差不多要看它的不同的國家啦差不多二至十排啦那您覺得這樣足夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
564.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我所了解就以防疫的角度因為他們查驗的我不是很清楚那海關的部分當初要讓這個萊豬進口的時候當初農委會那時候農委會也有說他說一定是逐批抽樣那到底是什麼原因降到連10%都不到的標準呢本來是說每一批都要抽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
609.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我覺得查驗的部分不應該是農業部來發言我知道但是當初是你們的立場你們跟我們的鄉親講講說一定會要求他們都要逐批查驗怎麼現在降到這樣子農業部一句話也不說我想抽驗的比例跟他的風險是有關聯的以防疫的角度如果說我想要知道這個農業部的態度您認為應不應該恢復逐批檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
614.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
630.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我認為就是所有的貨品的防疫檢驗的部分會根據它的風險它如果曾經發生不違規的時候它的查驗的抽檢的比例就會提高本席跟部長提供一個最新的民調數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
631.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
634.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
消基會針對進口萊豬做了一份民調調查結果高達90%的消費者在意是否買到這個瘦肉精的這個產品64%的民眾表示說支持肉品應該逐批檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
649.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
660.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有高達76%的民眾表示不同意販售含萊特波巴胺的肉品部長這就是民意啊多數人的確是擔心吃到萊豬也不想要買到萊豬而且希望恢復這個竹皮檢驗也希望說農業部可以幫他們把這個聲音發出來那另外我想要知道的是說是不是也要強烈的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
676.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
691.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
保護我們台灣優質的豬肉這當然是我們大家不喜歡來豬肯定就是我們國產豬肉的機會嘛我們這國產豬肉的標示也一定要清楚一定要把這個品牌做出來讓我們國產豬肉更受這個消費者的喜愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
694.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
703.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第一個就是國產的部分沒問題我們一定會去加強國產豬的標示還有一些品牌區隔但是您剛才講的我覺得邊境的查驗要回到科學的根據還有國際的標準當初是中央政府出來講的講說我要逐批檢查怎麼會出爾反爾呢你現在說科學根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
717.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
725.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那就逐批檢查才有科學根據逐批檢查出來的數據可以說服大家你現在是在幫他們進口商說話嗎你現在是在幫萊特多巴胺的豬肉說話嗎你不要汙衊喔我的意思是說科學根據是什麼你告訴我是什麼什麼是科學根據所有的邊境的查驗的比例是根據那個農產品的風險什麼風險你現在是在幫 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
746.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
759.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
進口的萊特多巴胺豬肉酸好嗎我幫你不要這樣講喔不要這樣講我覺得這樣講就是污衊沒有我沒有針對萊特多巴胺我是好好在跟你說好好在跟你說你支不支持支不支持應該要逐批檢查我 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
760.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
773.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我還是說要回到所有的抽驗要回到科學的根據跟什麼科學根據你告訴我所有的當你的產品當你的產品如果說經常違規你如果要逐批檢查的話你那個科學根據的數據哪裡來的呀科學有所謂的抽樣的根據那為什麼中央要出爾反爾當初不管是衛福部農業部都說我們一定會逐批檢查絕對不會讓萊特多巴胺抽標的豬肉進口結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
788.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
795.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
上禮拜 上個月就來個3%基本上部長我告訴你 豬農對對 我知道我也會去問他們我現在是問你的態度你支不支持豬農對你抱持很高的期待他們期待的是一個能為他們發聲替他們爭取公平競爭條件的農業部長我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
810.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
816.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
除了剛剛提到的這個恢復竹皮檢查之外把這個標示清楚然後要怎麼樣支持國產豬的具體的措施部長你要能夠幫助他們而不是在這裡辯護欸沒有我告訴你國內的豬肉我們如果說消費者對國內的豬肉有信心的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
829.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
843.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
任何進口豬肉我們不用擔心所以我們的重點農業部的重點就是讓我們的國產豬是你要好好把國產豬照顧好之外我覺得我剛才也是只是問你而已問你說支持不支持逐匹檢查難道是你可以決定說要不要逐匹檢查的嗎我只是在問你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
846.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
871.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
你知不支持而已嘛那你就說你支持就好了嘛跟支持不支持沒有關係是跟科學的根據跟國際的規範那你科學根據哪裡來嘛哪裡來你的科學根據你告訴我如果你可以說服我我不是不能被說服的呀所有的邊境的查驗各國都有他的相關的遊戲規則那為什麼我們一開始中央政府要說他要逐批檢查他要百分之百檢查那是不是在欺騙我們的鄉親欺騙我們的消費者是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
874.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
877.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我相信至少不是我嘴巴講出來的 我不知道但是之前的部長啊 之前的兩個部長都說呀 恢復部部長 農業部部長農業委會主委就說一定會保分之百檢查 那時候的行政院長蘇貞昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
894.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
897.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他也說要百分之百檢查逐批檢查那為什麼會出爾反爾呢為什麼你要幫他們辯護呢我本來只是要求你照顧我們本土的豬農確定他們的品牌 優化他們的品牌 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
913.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
925.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你為什麼要幫他們辯護呢我剛才講的我純粹針對防疫的角度我不是查驗喔防疫的角度要根據風險根據科學根據喔那至於說邊境從一百那你好好的就把這個講清楚嘛為什麼要幫他們辯護你不要說我是擁護那個萊豬窩怎麼樣的我覺得你這個就是掛帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
933.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
937.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我沒有要幫你掛帽子是你剛剛自己講的我問你說你是不是在幫他們辯護然後你跟我說什麼什麼科學根據我說科學根據在哪裡嘛我有沒有要求說你要照顧本土豬農有沒有我會承諾說我們一定是農業部的立場是嘛你就好好講你會支持本土豬農就好你再跟我 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
956.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
959.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
狗氣沙講說什麼什麼什麼什麼樣的科學證據我跟你說如果你不是自己講出這個空間我要怎麼掛你帽子我要怎麼掛你帽子你自己剛才沒有幫他辯護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
971.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
973.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這不叫辯護這是從事實上那我問你願不願意幫他們說應該要恢復逐批檢查願不願意願不願意幫出農呼籲幫我們消費者呼籲衛福部說應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
986.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
994.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
恢復逐批檢查為什麼之前的部長可以講為什麼之前的院長可以講你現在不願意講你如果不願意講的話那就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑這樣子我是不是你就有幫他辯護的嫌疑這樣可以嗎我沒有扣你帽子我只是懷疑這樣可以嗎你的專業是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1010.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1015.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我的專業就是說你所有的檢驗一定要有科學根據那你的科學根據是什麼你沒有主題檢查你的風險哪裡來你怎麼算出那個風險的所有的東西都有取樣的標準是 我當然知道但是你要體會 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1025.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1035.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
你體會豬農的心情 他們就覺得雙標你對他們檢查那麼苛刻你講這一句話我可以接受但是你在那邊跟我胡亂說什麼因為他2至10%是因為他有什麼科學標準我不接受 我不接受2至10%是你講的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1044.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1070.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我不接受 我是問你說現在只有2至10%你能不能接受然後我問你說是不是要能夠逐臂檢查你說巴拉巴拉巴拉對 我說根據科學依據嘛我沒有巴拉巴拉我是根據科學依據那科學依據是什麼你說服我啊科學依據就是風險啊 風險的高低啊風險是什麼 多大風險你知道嗎你就不知道你要說服我我怎麼知道我不知道那你說我告訴你 所有的東西都有它的風險你說嘛 那具體是什麼你告訴我具體內容嘛我講一個很簡單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1074.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1092.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
一個農產品如果進口我現在跟你說萊豬你就用萊豬的跟我說我告訴你萊豬到目前為止沒有一個豔豬是超標的嘛它有含萊豬但是它是符合國內的標準嘛符合國內的標準啊所以你也支持他說不用公開流向 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1093.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1097.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以你也支持嗎你也支持嗎我現在就在問你嘛我問你農業部的立場嘛對啊你農業部的立場是什麼你沒有個人的想法嗎反正我現在就告訴你我現在就告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1110.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1113.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我希望我們國家是一體的不希望農業部跟衛福部兩個就是雙重標準我希望說您能夠落實照顧豬農優化我們台灣國內的產品這一點你可以做到嗎好那這一點就麻煩那個部長要能夠落實這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1131.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1137.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那不要再幫什麼衛福部在那邊辯護了不需要你不需要幫他們解釋也不需要幫他們辯護他們我自己會問怎麼會我問你這個你會幫他們回答呢好嗎我回答是我們你來你好好來關心他們豬農我相信豬農會非常感謝你這樣好不好我昨天才去做談的啊好不好加油謝謝 |