| IVOD_ID |
161974 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161974 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T10:20:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T10:33:43+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f24d3ed5c65d87482aeafe3e41e2f2b0d30b291a8f6a096732c8976a5e7dc8100215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:20:41 - 10:33:43 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「國際金融業務條例」8案：
(一) 本院委員沈發惠等18人、委員鍾佳濱等17人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第十三條、第二十二條之七及第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等2案。
(二) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李坤城等20人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員郭國文等19人、委員羅廷瑋等17人、委員陳玉珍等16人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等6案。【本院委員陳玉珍等16人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
二、審查「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法」9案：
(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員鍾佳濱等20人、委員李坤城等19人、委員沈發惠等18人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案」等4案。
(二) 本院委員林楚茵等17人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員郭國文等18人、委員賴士葆等32人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員賴士葆等32人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
(三) 本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一及第二十條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
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那主席在場委員先進列席的政府監事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委好請彭主委委員長 |
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16.67 |
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主委今天來跟您請教一個有點歷史的問題因為我個人在學校大學是念歷史好來回顧一下2020年五年前高鐵公司疫情當年度大發鼓勵這個時間寫得很清楚2020年初已經有疫情了但是到了三月的時候高鐵要配息給股東1.22元連三年創新高結果要發多少要發69億 |
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這個幫你回顧一下當年這個情況但是下一頁結果過一個星期高鐵公司宣布說暫緩他們本來在前一年度宣布的在2019年宣布說我們2020年員工要調薪因為COVID-19所以呢暫時不實施結果那時候我就被工會找上了 |
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高鐵當年發高額鼓勵卻暫緩調薪,員工認為是瘦小肥大,肥了小員工,肥了大股東。請問,當高鐵當年這樣做的時候,你認為合理嗎? |
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我想這個案子可能委員比較清楚,中間可能不是這麼簡單,不過我覺得就是以這是兩件事情,一個是針對股東,一個是針對員工可能那個狀況我這邊不便評論,因為我沒辦法知道他所有的來,我這樣舉例,我們公司治理,2019年公司大賺錢嘛 |
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那大賺錢到隔年才會發放股利嘛所以對股東來講我在2019年我買了你高鐵高價的股票我就期待你高鐵當年大賺錢之後隔年我發放股利同樣的高鐵當年的員工他領的薪水比較少 |
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但是公司大賺錢他當然希望兩個第一個當年的年終獎金發多一點第二個公司承諾獎金沒有發那麼多但是我來年更好我給你調薪因為獎金只有一年調薪上去之後你年年薪水都提高你是高鐵員工你當然希望說來年能夠怎樣調薪調高一點 |
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可是股東到了第二年COVID-19了高鐵整個盈餘盪下來你覺得高鐵這時候前年的盈餘他是要保留下來度過寒冬還是趕快給去年高價買高鐵股票的股東鼓勵發一發 |
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我想這跟行業別也不太一樣假設他今天是有個資本是逐利的這樣那個行業那實際上他有個資本成本在裡面他就要好好想這件事情如果他是一個本身來講牽涉他未來的預來判斷因為本來事業經營就有上有下這個對股東而言股東不會是你 |
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199.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
永續股東他可能今年參與明年也會參與但是員工可能也不太一樣我說這個其實行業不同其實有很大很大不同是您說到重點了股東跟員工高鐵要照顧誰同樣道理受險公司他有兩個對象一個是保護一個是什麼股東好啦我們來看一下台幣增值重創保險業的RVC |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
200.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
222.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
還能發放鼓勵嗎後來高鐵經過我們這樣呼籲之後呢他意思意思啦本來要發1.22的他發1.21啦他的鼓勵呢少發了五五七二萬少發了五千多萬可能呢後來列入資本公積但是今年我們受險業欸前幾年現在已經核定了喔是不是應該受險要保留銀彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
223.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
234.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不要去年把股息發放出去主委您的看法您說要審慎思考對不對對確實審慎思考您的決定是怎樣您的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
235.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
254.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一樣,就是說其實上我們受險公司他在發放鼓勵的時候,如果各位有注意到的話帳面跟實質能發的,即便是太平的時候,我們也不是說比如說你這帳面上一百的淨利就能夠發一百,不是,我們現在大概的CAP大概是定在20%原則上是這樣,本來就很保守了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
255.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
268.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那再來的話其實在發現金的時候上一次在會期的時候也有委員質詢這件事情我們確實也請他們審慎的思考因為為什麼總體經營你當時在發放鼓勵可能很早前就決定了甚至都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
269.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
297.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
都要經過股東大會的決議但是現在有些我們受請公司有分兩大類一個是獨立的公司一個是金控下面金控下面已經沒有股東大會他隨時可以決定他是用董事會來代替嘛所以這裡面的話我們就也有跟他講說如果這個部分你要不要再審慎考慮確實有一家他就說好我考慮了我就好這是一種道德的勸說那另外一個呢其實在金控下面的子公司他發放鼓勵的不是這家受請公司發言的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
298.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
325.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
母公司的持股啊對所以他們其實我們知道金控法53條有個強制增資的義務所以金控公司的那個那個顧慮可能跟一般獨立公司不太一樣所以他們經過審慎評估因為前面已經大概有20%的保守的這樣一個發放以後再來他其實上有上面還有金控那個那個那個那個層次還有加上法定增資的義務呢他們仔細考慮過而且金額也沒有很大所以他們大概還是決定我覺得我覺得你講的很周延啦簡單講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
328.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
354.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
授權公司背後上面的金控如果授權公司賺錢是回饋上面的母公司嘛他虧錢也要增資啊對虧錢要公司但是如果他虧錢不增資賺錢要回饋母公司這樣是不是就不對等對但是因為這是金控法無三條強制增資的義務他沒有選擇是那我們就要等著看那些這個RBC資本市主力不足的有沒有強制增資我們看一下來您過去常常提到授權公司有兩個一個是保險監督公司治理保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
356.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
384.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
監理呢有檢查報表然後呢要人身保險業資本市租率的報告要填去相當的表格以便呢接軌我們ICS新一代的清償能力但是在公司這裡不能拿到的財務報表呢未來要接軌IFS-7還要加上你們金管會規定的保險業財務報告的編制準則請問一下這兩者投射到我們保護跟我們的那個股東好來下一頁這個講到IFS-7IFS-7真的是那麼一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
385.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
放諸四海都接準嗎?你認為我們未來接個IFAS 7,每個國家都要用嗎?當然這個因為基本上IFAS的話是我們在國際上最共通的一個,但是也不是所有好,不是所有的國家都好,那是不是所有的行業都要用公平性?那是一個基本的原則那授權業適合嗎?我想這個看公平性的定義是什麼?就以字面來看當然是每個授權公司都要用,還是說有的公司,產權業用授權業不用? |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
435.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
沒有就是公平性看就像比如說我們民法上呈現原則我想大家都不會反對啦好但是你說到一個還有一致性不能前後矛盾但是一致性呢在2023年就發生過重溫類嘛這2022年嘛對不對那時候原來訂的是OCI後來改列為AC這樣子當年2022年的時候保險公司很多大型公司才因此而逃過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
448.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那是一個美國大幅快速升息對 聯準會因事升息 我們都說暴力升息但是這樣的改分類有沒有前後一致改分類之後它的流動性可改變啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
451.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個其實它這樣分類也是符合IFAS的精神只是它的過程當中 本來IFAS就允許你們公司經營模式的改變但是只是說在那個當下可能認為說這個時機上這是歷史案子啦那我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
485.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
社會協議院的財務報表沒有辦法正確的反映什麼反映它保險業的特性嘛我們人壽保險我們產品週期長因此保險公司要做投資保留一些未實現的資產來應付未來的償付能力是不是這樣子是的所以我們人生社會協議院你看過去的海外投資高達七成這也是目前我們雙綠 匯綠 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
487.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
509.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟利率對我們台灣的本國售業造成衝擊的影響好 那我們往下看那麼如果顧及清償能力跟股價呢你的檢查報表要看它資本數值率這才是未來的保護長期的清償能力但是短期內你要年度截清年度截清剛剛講到了如果有可觀獲利維持高漲股價還有發放股利現在剛剛前面幾位委員問到了6月30號 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
538.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那一個日期財報怎麼定?您說有人說要從前半年的日均價主委您看法呢?就是說剛才講的話就是如果說我們從剛才講假設按照像委員非常非常的清楚剛才兩個分頁一個叫監理會計的範疇的話我們是看的是它的報表所顯示的是未來清償能力的比較接近未來長期有沒有清償能力這時候我們就不會看單點所以我們在股票的時候就是用均價來衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
539.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
567.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比較能衡量它長期的其實因為它的持股它是不會大部分都不會變賣的所以用個均價來衡量但是呢因為我們現在會計準則它就希望每天每天反映相關的資訊所以它特別著重幾個時間點就是月底的月報比如半年的6月3012月31號的年報實際上就以實質來看這幾個時間點並沒有什麼特別的意義只是會計方法原則上大家就公定那一天所以它就以那一天的反映那常常會 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
592.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
捕捉到一個不是一個全貿一樣所以剛才講委員你問說以長期經營觀點的話我們剛才有委員問說是否我們未來有考慮用軍價的概念我剛才說我們朝這個方向來思考這是兩件事情嘛對 但財報的部分因為牽涉到各行各業那可能就不太一致我記得主委過去曾經說長期的清償能力你是用過去來預測未來這不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
593.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
611.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你拿照後鏡不能看到前面的風景用照後鏡開車滿危險那你怎麼去我們金管會作為監理機關怎麼去預估判斷他未來的清償能力然後我們現在的股票股市大眾他要看的是股價他要看的是你的公司的財報那怎麼平衡你們的做法怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
612.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這也是我們在整個台灣這麼獨特的受險業它所必須要面對的一個挑戰因為確實這套財報制度如果以這樣的衡量各位就可以看到那個波動會非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
624.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
648.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為他主要是很大的部位的未實現損益會進入他的損益表裡面就剛才講是評價的問題但是一般投資人可能用一般產業來看那他的比如說他的損益的數字這麼壞大概就做出很不好的判斷或是看他損益這麼好就做出很好的判斷其實像這是一個會計制度跟這個行業特性之間所形成的一個關係所以主委最後一個你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
649.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
676.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
講出你的謎底了啦這些保險業的未實現資產透過財報到了我們金管會除了看我們會計社公報之外是不是金管會還有一個保險業財務報告編制準則你們如何透過這個編制準則去調整這個長期跟眼前的這兩個矛盾是不是說為了要採取半年的均價又或者是說過去三年他們的保費獲利創高那麼怎麼樣去限制他的股利發放請問金管會有沒有一個很清楚的一個立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
677.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
695.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
其實我們現在還在努力溝通中,剛才講說保險業財務報告編準的原則上是應該是follow IFAS的精神,因為它本來是編制財報用的但是我們剛才講那個RBC的填報手冊或是未來的ICS這個部分是有另外一套的方式來計算所以今晚會對這個資金填到? |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
697.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
714.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是那個財務業務報告編準則也是一個我們法定的工具這是我們也來想想看因為這需要社會共識因為這牽涉到各行各業本質上今晚會又是財報的主管機關財報準則主管機關所以這部分我們就要更慎你們會做出一個研究後的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
715.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
739.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們要更審慎來因應這個問題只會有一個結果希望能夠在剛才講我已經提到那個很專業的兩個能夠平衡好那最後還是問你那你覺得這種情況下現行的壽險業要不要放股利我覺得剛才提過了假設很多人以為說他今年帳面多少就發多少我剛才已經解釋過了他已經有一個已經頂多只有兩成的這個額度之內再來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
740.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
766.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他們又是假設在金控下面的話那其實上金控本來就保證的義務我覺得由他們專業來判斷我們已經提醒過他提醒過他他不要試圖的要迎合市場大眾的需求讓大家有誤解會發放很多的鼓勵所以最後的結論就是說請研議衛食授權業的財務報表吻合其衛食線資產的特性那保險業的財務報告編制準的調整方向是不是可以一個月內給我們一個書面的一個說明可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
767.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
774.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我可以給委員一個比較完整的說明好 謝謝主席也謝謝主委好 謝謝嘉賓接著請林思明委員質詢 |