| IVOD_ID |
161970 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161970 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T10:07:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T10:20:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f2446ec684373fadd52afe3e41e2f2b0d30b291a8f6a096732cb61b70df70fb98815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
郭國文 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:07:59 - 10:20:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「國際金融業務條例」8案：
(一) 本院委員沈發惠等18人、委員鍾佳濱等17人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第十三條、第二十二條之七及第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等2案。
(二) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李坤城等20人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員郭國文等19人、委員羅廷瑋等17人、委員陳玉珍等16人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等6案。【本院委員陳玉珍等16人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
二、審查「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法」9案：
(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員鍾佳濱等20人、委員李坤城等19人、委員沈發惠等18人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案」等4案。
(二) 本院委員林楚茵等17人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員郭國文等18人、委員賴士葆等32人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員賴士葆等32人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
(三) 本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一及第二十條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
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主席有請彭主委請彭主委委員早安主委好主委我想今天還是就較於這個中頂的問題因為我辦公室這邊有特別是對中頂的這個財報去了解才發現中頂這個孫公司控股公司在投所謂的中頂美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.699 |
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這個部分基本上對這家孫公司的資源非常的多不斷是資金給予83億之外去年增資了31億總體投資又超過56億 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.322 |
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70.259 |
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然後在去年認賠的情況底下認賠16億的情況底下還繼續增資31億甚至呢在今年的第一季的財報當中呢還對這個客戶端違約的部分的這一家能源公司也就是說他的子公司就是建造這個深植柴油廠的子公司還答應他要重整重整的部分有一些股東的特別條款之外還提供22.5億喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.02 |
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也就是他回來回收的不過是45億他還要投資22.5億下去那總體來說我們在上週提到這個問題的時候中頂的合併資產的總金額當中196億啊佔了15.7佔了15.7這對財務有一定程度的一個挑戰就他回收來45億又要投入22.5億那原來這個工程是228億結果呢總共投入變250億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.904 |
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129.492 |
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這好像看起來是無底洞啦無底洞說財報當中有很多誇張的地方我再去跟您說明一下這他財報當中寫的說工程只有採完工的百分比的進行認列的方式也就是所謂的里程碑付款的方式做到多少拿多少但事實上他完工了百分之百他只拿到百分之二十啦對啊這付款條件很清楚不合理啦對啊這個工資勢力很顯然出問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.694 |
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我講到這邊主委你有沒有這樣的感覺我想上週委員就關心這個議題我也承諾說要請交易所跟我們那個政企局要仔細了解這部分當然這裡面有兩個層面一個是公司經營的層面雖然我們是上市櫃公司的就是主管機關但是我們對他不是像金融機構一樣這種所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
175.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
有這麼多的接力我們主要是針對像證交法36條第三項你有沒有如實的去針對剛剛講的委員提到那個重大的訊息還有合理性他很顯然已經違反公司治理的一個那個治理原則而且您去看喔這個整個他的子公司的這個總經理高層一直在變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
176.656 |
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204.943 |
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相繼的辭職你給他給這個獨厚儀PKRF這個深植燃油廠的這個公司之後呢總經理就辭職了後來找了一個又辭職就是很清楚嘛很異常你要去看喔他在投資下去的22.5億當中呢這是有追加投資異常的現象啊如果追加投資異常的現象可能會導致什麼結果呢一來工程的這個洗錢的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.765 |
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217.687 |
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第二個呢 按盤是一個分立的可能性第三 私下酬庸的這個可能性這都有啊你不要等到事情發生了才造成這個投資人的損失啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
241.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
當然剛才講說我們在資本市場的管理有它一定的強度範圍那剛才跟委員報告過那剛才講說這部分如果說細節的部分我可以請那個張局長跟我們說明好 局長可以來講一下交易所調查的結果局長跟交易所回答之前這是已經積欠上百億了中頂過去都沒有寫說未預期而且呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
261.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
整個違反百分之百認列的模式在財報上來都沒有披露這有沒有涉及到這個財報不實跟委員報告這個財報的部分交易所已經全面去查核他的狀況當然在一個禮拜都會有初步的看頭才會一個禮拜就會有結果是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
272.634 |
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因為股票連跌四次引起投資人的恐慌今天投保中心的董事長要來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
276.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
杜董事長你上來一下董事長董事長 我就教於您中頂我們都有持股對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
284.446 |
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304.594 |
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我沒有不是你啦好像是你們投保中心今天有沒有派人去投保有今天有沒有派人去今天有今天已經派了四位同仁去有四位同仁去有沒有發問有我們已經準備了一個清單什麼清單我們在質問他問題站在投資人保護的立場你今天早上九點的股東大會你有沒有上場去問 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
305.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有,我們之前在上禮拜五就已經發函給鐘鼎鐘鼎在昨天就已經回函給我們一些問題針對他的回函我們今天又再追加了一些問題請他在股東會上股東說明好,那你所問到的這些內容當中就是跟證交所還有包括政情局會診一下要以招供信,你請回,你有進入狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
329.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那另外一個部分呢 主委 我要問一下齁這個其實你們花一個禮拜的時間去查齁這總統的跡象來顯示出來 這個治理上出現了很多問題不論是內控的審計制度的問題 或企業風險的問題或合約履約管理的問題 子公司管理的問題或資訊透明度的問題啊 每個面向都有問題啊這問題這麼多的情況底下 欸 那個讀懂難道沒有看到這些問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
363.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
也就是說政經局要求交易所去查這件事情的時候也應該把讀懂的責任跟角色了解清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
365.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
剛剛有委員提到就是我們對於投保中心對於獨董的這些的角色還有他的責任釐清也有做這個說明來委員報導我們的剛才的我們是禮拜五的發函也有給獨董所以我們今天在股東會上如果有必要我們會詢問獨董當然也要問清楚啊四個獨董都非常大咖的獨董如果獨董不適任主委你請回到備詢台 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果不適應的話 之前我就要求過讀懂的角色之所以這麼關鍵 賦予這麼重要的角色跟任務就是要讓公私治理得以落實嘛如果沒有辦法辦理這種角色的時候就應該變成黑名單嘛 是不是 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
429.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我想我們會因為這個事實還在釐清當中因為我們也不適合在公開講說我們要對誰究責但是制度在那邊我們就會來處理我就針對制度而已嘛如果查有類似情勢的產生那就應該列入黑名單的考量對 如果說我們現在對獨立董事的資格要求就有這樣的話那我們就會按照這來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
督董是做一個內部監督很重要的關鍵但是有一個東西你還沒有辦法執行的就是影子董事更大的麻煩今天就跟你談公司治理嘛在去年7月22號的時候杜絕大股東職權不服亂象主要大股東就是影子董事要拼下個會期修法已經一年了咧主委我這邊提醒你一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
480.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你去年的時候就提過說去年的夏惠琦就是去年底的時候要拼夏惠琦修法嘛後來我看你法案也沒有送出來對 因為這個齁 確實我們原來條文我們內部擬過好很多版本但是呢我們就覺得這裡面還要再更周延我們最近又在會因為昨天在我們記者會都在說明說我們包括幾個重點我們大概都已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
497.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對外說明了我們未來會朝什麼方向來我們會盡快的提出我們的草案送行政院我跟你說 獨董那個主委你要快一點有這個影子懂事的產生的存在就沒有所謂的公私治理的可能啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
498.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
515.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果影子董事都可以存在在外面指揮的話有權無責的話那何來的公私治理不是嗎對是沒錯所以我在上面已經也有揭露兩個非常重要的原則第一個就是一定要權責相輔不能夠有權的人無責那有責的人卻是要承擔這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
517.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
544.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這是一個很簡單的公司治理的很原則第二個就是說所有的決策都是透明的那透明當然不是說都公開都有跡可循你要拼行政院之前假設你現在新年現在已經到接下來就六月了嘛你至少再拼個下會期修法或這會期要送進來下會期修法你至少一個工作目標嘛這本來就是我們預計的這個時程對 是的影視董事存在老實講我個人理解的部分還算普遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
546.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
561.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
其實應該傳聞不斷耶對其實我們已經朝這個方向來努力啦因為很多其實不只這個我們還有其他的部分可是你的方向你的方向的修法方向又如同之前的黃錢主委一樣停留在只有罰款的部分嗎因為他之前是要獻權我們會從整個更制度面來看徵責一種是獻權一種是徵責一個就是說徵責就包括處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
572.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
587.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那當然 罰則是一定有的 否則你訂那個規定呢如果說沒有明確的罰則 那個規定是沒有用麻煩一下 希望透過你的法制面的努力能夠把這一個飲食董事杜絕啦 好不好當然 這是我們努力的方向好 接下來問最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
589.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
603.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
最近的這個央行在升息的時候會帶動這個貸款方的一個利息成本然後呢但是隨著這個調動在之前第七波之前都是同比例的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
604.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是我發現在第七波的信用管制之後五大銀行的乘坐的購屋的利率卻異常的偏高起來這個偏高的方向已經開始增加從這個連續去年九個月去年九月央行明明有升息但是貸款的利息卻不斷的攀升 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
625.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
645.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
李唐是逐步成長現在逐漸攀升的情況已經接近0.1這種資金成本的部分會造成房貸利款利率不斷增加我認為接下來對這個購屋族來說是一種額外的負擔甚至會造成這個斷頭如果說你說看起來好像是以量治價但是卻是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
646.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
669.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
銀行自行圖利嘛但是卻造成一些市場的亂象主委你這要不要去注意一下這個其實我們對這個房貸啊我們從去年開始有這個應該是去年這個信用管制以後我們就幾乎每週在控管這些內容我想說這部分再像比如說我們也看到我們現在的房貸的餘放現在是0.080.9成喔那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
673.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
695.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那個九升是因為我們最近的存款的那個成長沒那麼高啦就是因為分母的關係我想這個零點零幾之間那個些微已經不具有統計的顯著性了我只是說這個相對我們現在還是很低而且我們所有不動產都有提列1.5%的壞帳那等於說如果這樣反算大概20倍喔就是實際上我們其實銀行在做這件事情的時候其實已經非常謹慎的在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
697 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
722.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個部分是這樣即使我們的建築融資也只有0.16那實際上是一個非常非常低的水準假設1.5來算也差不多十倍的安全所以我只說這個我們都在嚴格監控利率確實剛剛從委員講的確實有可能是因為最近是真的可能二字頭以下是看不到了但是上面的話大家是確實我們要確保幾件事情在 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
723.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
743.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為這個信用管制不是我們在但是我們要確保我們的房貸能夠順利的供應民生需要這是我們今晚會來努力除了量之外不應該讓它負擔太大不要用以價自量的這種概念當中來增加那個貸款戶的一個負擔我主要是做這樣的提醒我們會來關注這個議題啦好 麻煩主委費心 謝謝好 請宗嘉斌委員質詢 |