| IVOD_ID |
161919 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161919 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-26T10:52:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-26T11:09:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/120d1ede7233a40ad316406faa91e2ca6c7274cb7632216e12766cb13dea9389ffdbef6d71e002e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:52:17 - 11:09:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部次長、內政部次長、教育部、衛生福利部、勞動部、內政部警政署就「跟蹤騷擾防制法施行三週年後，其制度成效、實務偵查、審判困境與未來修法展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於司法院預算凍結項目共10案。） |
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好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們司法院的副秘書長請王副秘書長副秘書長 我今天不是要跟你討論根騷而是要跟你討論三峽重大的死亡車禍案件三死十二傷那如果這樣子的話 你知道他們的民事訴訟的審理是怎麼 是拿一種審理模式嗎一般審理 還是簡易審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
39.472 |
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57.253 |
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我請那個廳長來回覆廳長你不知道這個我去年就問過了廳長知道了你 副秘書長你現在是司法院的最高行政管理的首長這個目前民事訴訟法這是屬於檢疫案件跟交通相關的 |
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我是要告訴你如果是民事訴訟的官司啊從110年還是哪一年修法以後全部一律改成簡易訴訟程序民事訴訟法第433之1條這是很重大的變革但是如果是刑事附帶民事一樣是什麼審理你知道嗎 |
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你也不知道 那我再跟你講刑事部對民事 向刑事庭提出的民事訴訟的審理理論上刑事庭 刑事庭還是會移到民事庭去處理民事庭還是一樣交給檢疫庭審理那請問你13傷亡 3個人死亡 13個人輕重傷如果是這樣的民事訴訟官司啊是檢疫審理 你可以接受嗎 |
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報告委員我想當時修的時候在立法院修的時候他是有他的那個考量的 |
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122.535 |
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所以我要藉著今天這個三峽的重大的死亡車禍和13個輕重傷這麼重大的車禍來告訴你當初修法的時候只想到要趕快結案可是訴訟的最核心是要實現當事人的權利是要實踐審判的公平要得到一個公平的審判可是你們為了趕快趕快趕快然後呢 |
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149.153 |
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把所有的交通事故的民事訴訟全部改成檢疫審理而檢疫審理的特色是什麼它的特性是什麼你不知道喔檢疫審理來委員不好意思可以容我來應以一次期日辯論終結為原則 |
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應以一次其日辯論終結為原則但是我知道民視庭有檢附資料給我過我有看過 |
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在111年5520個省捷的交通這個民事訴訟裡面有1690次不是省一次我知道然後在112年9350件裡面有3789件不是省一次在113年的前10個月8576件有3347件不是省一次但是但是來了現在啊我在講 |
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211.099 |
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副秘書長為什麼要再跟你講 因為前一個副秘書長大家都亂講 立委跟質詢都亂講事實上呢 事實上呢我現在要講 你看起來好像他們法官審人仔細不止一次你知道簡義廷的法官 我在這裡講過簡義廷的法官每個月包括銀行債權等等 每個月超過100件以上要審結 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.915 |
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267.033 |
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100件以上所以他說基本上啊 基本上他們都不會做出這個事實的這個證據的調查你知道這個交通事故的審理啊不只是遭受責任的比例醫療的費用 看護的費用撫養費用需要調查 失能的失能的比例要鑑定所以當然不可能是一次 |
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268.211 |
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295.077 |
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你們當時的黃凌倫的副秘書長就說很難一次但是大多數都一次然後還說當事人可以請求改為一般審理可是當事人請求改成一般審理有一個要件要法院和法官同意法院和法官同意你們最喜歡講當事人程序自主權 |
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323.822 |
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在這個時候就沒有當事人程序自主權了沒有只能法院或法官同意而不是當事人說我請求要改為一般審理通常程序審理就可以 沒有在這種狀況裡面在這種狀況裡面我又講 去年我就講了通常簡義廷的法官不會幫你改成一般程序審理為什麼你知道嗎 副秘書長 |
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326.824 |
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347.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
來 廳長 你經過了 你知道 你再講一次跟委員報告啦 因為我以前也擔任過檢疫庭的法官其實以檢疫庭法官的立場你什麼時候當過檢疫庭的法官 幾年十幾年前 這個法律才剛改啦所以你的時代沒有這種制度啦沒有 我是要跟委員報告是說以檢疫庭法官的立場 他改成通常程序反而是他會歡迎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為我們的那個要件裡面綁兩個嘛一個是五百萬以上一個是案情複雜請委員讓我說明完畢您再做您的高見批評因為檢疫庭法官來講他改成通常程序要辦案期限是延長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也就是說他不用在比較短的時間去做我們一般認為還有沒有另外一個理由是什麼還有沒有其他的說法那另外就是說當事人本身他如果對這個案件真的是要求通通的去與剛才委員垂詢的那個三峽的不幸往生案例為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
387.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
415.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這種案例來講 正常狀況他就是案情複雜而且他一定是超過五百萬你現在是不死人間煙火喔他這一個個案 你聽我說喔他可以改為一般通常程序審理前提是檢疫庭的法官要繼續審理然後呢 調查程序可能會很久然後呢 不要忘了他的案件每個月交付來的他案件永遠累積在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
416.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
440.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你們當初為什麼改成啊不把檢疫庭他如果改成一般審理就移交給一般庭去審理因為你們就是怕檢疫庭的法官偷懶你們自己當初就講怕他把所有案件都移到一般庭那把這種東西再留下來他不是搬石頭砸自己的腳我每次都用一把劍為了你一劍 還要拖後來還有這種改成一般審理我就繼續拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
446.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
永無寧日啊起碼這次簡怡婷的法官又不是笨蛋事實上簡怡婷的法官也想要這樣子我的辦公室接到幾個簡怡婷法官的家屬來陳情她在我質詢完以後 妳說妳說出了我們的心聲欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你十幾年前是檢議庭的法官你現在不是你如果檢議庭怎麼審理的你都不知道如果改成一般通常程序審理還是你這個檢議庭的法官在審理他會做事他不可能我現在跟你說改成通常程序審理的比例有多高嗎通常程序審理的比例有多高你知道嗎多高你知道嗎好我有資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
488.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
514.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他從檢疫程序改成一般審理通常程序審理110年5,520件裡面有42件112年9,350件裡面有52件113年的前10個月8,576件裡面有48件比例是七點千分之七點六千分之五點六千分之五點六 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
534.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我今天要跟你說 當然我不是講三峽這個個案但我從三峽這個個案裡面要告訴你把修法改成所有交通事故 包括三峽這個案子全部一律交給警議庭去審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這是多麼荒謬的事情而你到現在 你民視聽聽長你還說 簡義廷的法官很歡迎你這個是與事實不符你這個叫不食人間煙火你這個叫做吃飯卡中的你不知道你簡義廷的法官現在是做到要死 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後呢這個是忽略了當事人要實現當事人要實現自己的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
587.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員我稍微回應兩點第一點當初為什麼要把道路交通案件改為檢驗案件就檢驗案件的本質它這是一個原則它會快速讓被害者加速獲償加速獲償交通案件樣態霸霸俏交通事件的樣態好幾種你 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
590.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
601.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
小小的擦傷 沒有什麼大的傷害 也是交通案件三死十二輕重傷 也是交通案件你們現在是疑慮欸 疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
委員我們現在是原則例外的問題原則原則原則是這樣子但你的例外事實上是很難的例外可以依法官來獨立依當事人的要求另外跟委員報告當事人的程序自主權我現在要求當事人的程序自主權如果你限縮在五百萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
649.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那一百萬的 我損失一百萬的人 我的命 我的胸 我的命比五百萬的人 比較不大錢我的胸 我比一百萬的人 比較不大錢你們就可以去申請 我就不可以申請我現在人命有貴賤嗎 第一個第二個 當事人權利 自主 程序自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
651.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
676.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們要求當事人程序自主 你的門檻要降因為人的命是一樣的你五百萬是很大的門檻 很高的門檻我們還有一個門檻叫案情複雜所以實際上只要五十一萬案情複雜也可以轉那案情簡單 但是損失四百九十萬的這不就不值得改成一般審理了嗎那我問你 那我問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
677.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你在整個生理程序裡面我講過我講過 文化資本高的 經濟資本高的我要幾天 我已經準備好 我要去跟他們說我的失能程度 我的傷重程度 然後我的看護費用我的撫養費用 我的肇事責任 我的醫療費用我通通準備好了 我看護費用 我整理好了文化資本高的 經濟資本高的沒問題 我都準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
702.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
710.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
可是呢 文化資本低的 經濟資本低的你以為到法院就是請求正義的開始你去那裡什麼都不知道 都沒準備然後跟你說 你這個一百萬的傷亡 你請求一百萬而已好啦 回去啦 沒啦 沒再開啦 算啦 沒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
719.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
跟委員報告因為交通案件如果致人死傷一般都有刑事案件我剛才前面就講了 你就忘了嗎我現在剛才說的 刑事附帶民事 刑事聽來 刑事聽不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
736.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他會刑事庭自己審理嗎通常法院的運作都是移出到民事庭對不對來 刑事庭 廳長實務上是這個樣子實務上是嘛 那移到民事庭以後民事庭以後是不是交給檢疫審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
752.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對 但是因為證據資料都有啊 相關的證據資料在刑事案件都有 它會依照民調你每一件都說得很簡單的 我剛才甚至可以說六合十的甚至我剛剛都沒有把卷宗看完啦 不要再這麼騙啦所以我是要跟你講 我現在跟你講 至少你要給當事人給當事人一個 你們最喜歡講的程序自主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
778.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
803.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
而我們提出了要從檢疫審理改成一般審理的時候至少要不是你們決定我們也要有決定權你們想法大小通知我們都給改成這樣這已經很亂來啊然後我現在就說你們完全都不覺得自己有問題完全不覺得這個制度運作下來損害了多少當事人的權利這個才是最令人覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
808.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
834.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
可悲的啦 司法 副秘書長 副秘書長 更不要再說你們黃玲倫當初在講胡說八道的 還說簡義廷改成一般庭審理不用寫書面裁定 這也亂說的然後我們還要求什麼 還說非上訴 說簡義廷的法官民事訴訟的時候 把照事責任的50看成20能不能非上訴到第三審 還說可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
836.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
853.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
根本就不可能都不會贏的委員不好意思我再補充一下剛才委員提到說一定要下正式書面裁定沒有我們在113年12月16號也發一個通函有囉我叫你發你發了齁不是它在法律上本來就是一個程序性裁定啊程序上裁定喔你在什麼時候發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
857.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
878.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
113年12月26號對啊 我質詢你 要叫你發來 黃林倫 我叫他發來嘛那張公文沒給我看 我叫你給我看 你也沒有好 來 我剛才在說非上訴 第三審因為你的民事訴訟有別 簡義廷的訴訟有別於一般訴訟其實是不准 不准上訴到第三審的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
879.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
894.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
剝奪掉了 除非有特殊要件啊除非是引用的法律錯誤啊那我剛才講了如果法官把被害者的私能比例是50 看成20他的判決就給他寫成20他能不能再上訴到第三審 不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
895.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
916.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這制度面就有問題我是從三峽三個人死亡12個輕重傷一律都有這個問題來告訴你你們的修法問題很大再跟委員報告如果說像您剛才提到那個比例原則比例的問題明顯疏失他可以構成再整治室友 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
917.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
942.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在審的事由法條上面是怎麼寫法條上面是怎麼寫這在我們民事訴訟法裡面法條上面寫的是四百六十六條不是來四百六十六條當事人僅得以其適用法規顯有錯誤為理由適用法規顯有錯誤才可以飛越上訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
945.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
965.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
請問,把失能的比例從50看成20,叫做適用法規,顯有錯誤嗎?我們在檢疫案件裡面是擴大的,它不只是這一個而已好啦,現在還可以,因為朱協議員站起來很久了啦副秘書長,我的最好問你啦,剛才講的一律,一律都以檢疫審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
967.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
976.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這樣才對三峽的死亡三死 十二輕重傷的事故一律也是檢疫審理 這樣才好政策評估的結論是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
998.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1015.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你也不知道,不要再說了,再說他也是再說那套啦沒有變啦,你們沒有變你們也不所謂程序自主權,也不還給當事人啦你們的門檻也沒有下調啦你們所謂的可以上訴再審的條件,一樣是不行的啦好啦,謝謝 |