| IVOD_ID |
161811 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161811 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-22T10:48:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-22T11:03:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1976c9e92d55c2f935d6f5154aa84a33018167f9c4d828f8b229dfd5e6d71d20b20d4d170e3d7e975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
高金素梅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:48:03 - 11:03:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會及所屬預算解凍案。三、審查「原住民族基本法」修正草案等12案：(一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。【第一案至第三案合併詢答；第三案僅詢答，另定期處理】） |
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現在召委有請主委主委有請主委在這邊很多的委員們都很關心就是紀念日我們原住民記憶放假三天的問題那在這裡我要特別感謝我們的召委當時呢本席有提這個放三天假然後呢讓立法院呢都已經三讀通過了所以本席今天原本要在原基法處理的稅時記憶放假日就可以不用再處理了 |
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但是呢我非常遺憾的就是我們在審法案的時候原民會一開始你們是支持的對吧主委在這裡我依然很記得你說你支持放假三天這是族人所期待的但是你知道嗎過了一陣子之後有一些執政黨委員紛紛的撤案尤其呢原住民的立法委員吳立華委員陳英委員也撤案了然後再一次在說明的時候呢 |
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原委會的立場一次之間就不一樣了然後你們說什麼你們說呢我們如果放三天假的話我們的原住民就會沒有工作了是這樣子的嗎 主委 |
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我們用數據來說話看一下99年的時候法規命令當時放一天假是法規命令我們首次納入放假一天假當時也是很多人說我們會沒有工作但是我們的失業率是從5.90%降到隔年的5.32%這根本就沒有影響就業的問題 |
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119.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以放假會沒有工作其實是執政黨你們的話術所以實際一放三天假是族人需要的今天再講清楚一點當時我們放一天假是用法規命令可是現在我們是法律規範可以放三天假老闆如果不遵守法規他要依據勞動基準法第79條要罰錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以這不就是更加保障我們族人的權益了嗎那身為執政黨的這個圓明會也好或者是立委也好應該是要多多的像這些所謂的慣老闆來教育他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
原住民為什麼要放三天的假你們要做的是這件事情而不是在立法院測案然後站在冠老闆的這個角色上面然後跟他們說話然後不選擇跟主任站在一起我真的非常的遺憾耶主委你可以不用回答了但是呢我必須要講執政黨的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
沒有在立法院投贊成的票我們在野黨的立法委員全力的支持所以現在以後你們要做的事就要教育這些慣老闆為什麼我們原住民要放三天假的重要性是哪裡第二點就是你們要趕快跟部落的族人說明因為族人會害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
209.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為你們一直在講說放三天假我們老闆就不會用你們了 他們會害怕所以是有法律依據的對不對是必須放的對不對如果不放假會被罰錢對不對好 既然是有這樣子被保障那你們應該就要幫族人做一些法律程序上的一些鋪陳 對吧希望我能看到你們要怎麼做另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
211.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們回到基金運用上面為了都會區的族人的居住權益我呢有要求綜合發展基金必須要納入社宅投資的項目請問主委你們的看法是什麼這個我跟委員報告有關這個我們這個興建這個社會住宅他基本上還是要地方政府來 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
238.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
251.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
統籌這個業務統籌這個業務我同意那至於就是說這個是內政部來協助我也同意對但是您知道嗎主委你的立場是什麼就簡單講一下今天時間有限是你的立場支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
254.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們來看一下行政院其實在解凍報告裡面也說投資社會住宅是符合規定的第二個基金還有45億未來還會適時的由公務預算來撥補協儲行政院的說法他說我們的法規是容許並且基金還有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
277.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
304.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這都是從正面的方向去吧可是主委你知道嗎 園民會呢到114年1月你們基金可動用的只剩下2.1億了對吧主委好 請問一下到底我們行政院說我們還有45億園民會說只剩2.1億到底我們的基金還有多少錢啊不急啊淨值44.6億可動用的資金可以動用的資金大概是11.6億 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
可以動用的啦可以現在等於是現金嘛 對不對可以動的是11億14億點6億好 請問一下如果基金沒有錢的話我們的微小貸款啊 修上房屋啦這些貸款就會全面停擺了 對不對那請問這11億現在還可以做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這動得了嗎有在做 跟委員報告截至三月底為止的話那今年度基金的預算在貸款款是6.8億那已經貸放了312件那那個貸放的資金那這樣子還剩多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是剛剛跟委員報告 截至4月底為止 等於說可動用資金還是有11.6億好 所以我們可以看到 綜合發展基金只剩下11.6億已經沒有 都快沒有錢了對不對所以呢 我有提案要修正 原基法綜合發展基金的總額不可以低於新台幣100億元我是來拯救我們的綜合發展基金 主委你支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
支持 支持你支持嗎 支持好 謝謝 記得你今天說的話喔不要到時候我們在這邊又放的時候你們又不有意見喔來 另外我要問族人最關心的問題了就是九月份依法我們的族人可以領得到一公頃六萬塊的進法補償嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對可以嗎可以你知道9月份就要放了喔對9月以後就那請問一下你知不知道行政院已經針對總預算提出釋憲囉是是吧齁如果再提暫時處分所謂的追加預算就沒有辦法進行囉主委你知道這個嚴重性吧是好如果沒有追加預算的話我們基金也剩下11億根本不夠請問族人的補償金要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
422.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
441.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
說清楚現在主任都在聽這個部分的話就是說除了晚會動用基金本身的預算跟調度相關的資源另外等於說行政院那邊給晚含也會適時可以協助行政院要怎麼協助他追加預算不能夠用啊那要用哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
而且你剛剛說你的那個綜合發展基金只剩下11億啊然後如果微銷貸款什麼都交在一起的話你會影響到綜合發展基金應該要用的業務而且錢也不夠啊跟委員報告那個基金因為今年度的預算那個基金預算應該是分次等於說撥入的所以後面還會有那個分配款進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
分配款會多少所以你的意思說基金不夠的在公務預算不夠的現在還是要用綜合發展基金來撥補囉的意思嗎那主委你覺得這是長期應該要做的事情嗎這個過去都是用這樣的方式但是我想未來應該是直接在預算裡面在公務預算嘛對不對所以這一次行政院公務預算給你們多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
498.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
28億28.6億根本就不是我們一公頃6萬塊所以它是減半所以我們只剩下多少還有多少是沒有在公務預算裡面可以撥補的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
535.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
大概是23億左右好現在終於大家都清楚知道了行政院並沒有把義工請六萬塊的錢通通在公務預算裡面撥足另外不夠的部分他還是要違法由綜合發展基金裡面來做這是不對的主委你剛剛也一直說了希望以後行政院不要再用這種方式來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
542.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
來給依法通過的禁法補償六萬塊所以我們可不可以這樣說 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
明年的預算我們希望在公務預算裏面補足一公頃六萬塊真正的淨法補償金你沒有必要努力會 我們會努力會努力用這個基金來來支應這個淨法補償它並沒有違法因為以前也都是這樣做啦那當然我們希望未來直接從公務預算那是比較恰當啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
570.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那既然沒有違法為什麼這次要在公務預算裡面編然後不編足以前也是這樣以前也是這樣以前沒有啊以前是3萬塊啊是通通在公務預算然後交到綜合發展基金以前是公務基金都有啊對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
587.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好了主委我給你一個任務希望你趕快在明年的預算下一次的預算要在公務基金裏面補足可以嗎有啊加油好謝謝公務預算喔是多少錢一公頃六萬塊的話一公頃六萬多少錢嘛52億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
611.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
應該是52.15所以我們在下次的公務預算就會看到52.15億是完全放在公務預算所以今年九月份我們的不足的部分 原民會想辦法如果我們的行政院不給你們你們會從你們自己預算裡面去挪的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
637.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那會怎麼樣來講清楚一下我們還是要跟行政院爭取行政院要怎麼給你從什麼預備金嗎我剛剛就說了追加預算如果他騎市線然後暫時處分追加預算是不能夠用的啊那要從哪裡我們會積極爭取可能他也許會從預備金來給我們也有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
657.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
684.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
不要講可能 九月到現在已經五月底了你知道你的主計長說什麼嗎現在他已經不認追加預算了耶鄭天才委員在經濟委員會裡面財政委員會裡面質詢他的時候他已經不認行政院長簽的那個追加預算了已經不提這個了主委您知道嗎 園民會已經被行政院穿小鞋了好吧 因為我的時間要到了 最後我要問你的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
690.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
部落工法人事辦的計畫請問一下最終的目標是什麼要完成的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
692.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
713.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主要就是讓我們的部落能夠部落自主的來決定自己的所以是走向自治嘛那為什麼不一步到位走向自治然後呢你要弄這個事辦計畫然後這個事辦這個所謂的這個部落光髮人事辦計畫其實就我了解長期以來原住民的社會還有鄉鎮市長是反對這個計畫的所以呢你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
740.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不好好跟主任溝通你反而這一意孤行的黑箱事辦現在呢五個部落可以做事辦我們真的覺得很奇怪740個部落為什麼就這五個然後一年可以拿到一百萬然後六十萬是人事行政費到底是要幹嘛然後你要讓他們自己跟這些部落的原住民的鄉鎮市鄉民代表部落裡面產生一些衝突嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
745.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
774.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我跟委員報告 之所以挑這五個部落我就擠一個一齡部落來講好了那為什麼不要公開甄選為什麼只有五個為什麼不要740個部落都一起來示範我想我們先做這五個然後在這五個部落當中我想為什麼挑他們因為我覺得他們的這個核心的幹部他們很容易有一個共識不是啦 你共識完畢未來你示範你要讓這些人去做什麼事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
775.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
786.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他可以拿到一百萬啊對不對那一百萬他要做什麼他要交什麼報告他要在這個鄉裡面取得未來這個部落自治的共識嗎各位報告如果沒有怎麼辦請問諸位你說這五個部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
791.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
817.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
對啊如果沒有取得共識沒有好好的做你還會繼續辦下去嗎還是只有今年或明年因為明年就要選舉了大家都知道你會不會因為這樣子然後挑一個會選舉的部落然後這些人其實是在幫某些人在做一些選舉的工具其實不會好不會那請你要告訴我這五個部落他以後我們花了五百萬嘛對不對五個部落一個部落一百萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
819.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
834.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為我們提出了 他們提出計畫 我們也要看不是啦 現在已經是五個部落了嘛 五百萬嘛那未來他的目的是什麼 最終的目標是什麼你要不要定一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
835.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
841.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
要不要定一下最終的目標是希望這個部落可以好我必須要講一下我們必須要一套規則是公平參與這才是制度而不是維民會你想怎樣就怎樣你如果沒有一個非常好的制度我們是部落是沒有辦法信任你們的你反而會產生很多的對立面主委我是提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
859.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
883.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
最後最後今天我們要談的是解凍案如果我們看不到所謂的制度健全我想有非常多我在這邊執意要凍結的預算我一定會凍結那原民會原文會我要提一下請你們趕快找一點時間你們到現在仍然拒絕提出合理的薪資結構表主委要求他 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
884.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
905.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
在我審他們要解不解凍的預算之前所謂的合理的薪資結構表再拿不出來的話我今天依然是要凍結他們預算我會持續來監督嚴格的要求改善我認為這不僅僅是政策的問題而且是對我們的族人最基本的公平的交代好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
906.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
927.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最後原住民人才我們流動率非常高在總預算的時候行政院院長有交代一個月之內要給我一個檢討報告請問什麼時候給我委員我們已經應該我們的報告都已經都已經提出去了5月15就送出去了請問一下助理我們有收到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
932.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
950.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我沒有收到喔 主委好 沒有收到我們馬上就可以 有人在這裡我沒有收到因為提案的人是我 你們不給我 真的很奇怪有啊 我提到辦公室 午夜時我提到辦公室在這裡好 待會我們會解凍你們預算 我們一一還是要審查這是我們立法委員應該做的工作謝謝 |