| IVOD_ID |
161782 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161782 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T15:55:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T16:10:21+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7db691b0d1d5f711444e11a54d16b4ae5699762613b50df72fda58ef45d272994b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳思瑤 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:55:39 - 16:10:21 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目共5案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共4案。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席在我進入我的詢問之前早上有一些資訊可能要更新一下就是說早上因為我們花了一些時間在程序上做意見的交換那我列舉出馬英九前總統任內然後再處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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國安會的預算解凍的時候有三度都是由葛光月副秘書長、陸小榮副秘書長來出席代理那個時候立法院都准假我早上提的是馬英九前總統的任內那我現在要補充因為中午休息的時間我又去找了比較多的資料其實從過去李登輝總統、陳水扁總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.091 |
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62.071 |
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馬英九總統到小英總統蔡英文蔡總統共有19次立法院審查預算決算乃至於解凍預算都是由副秘書長來出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
68.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以當然如果說秘書長公務時間安排得當當然秘書長可以來參與預算的審查跟討論這個我們當然都至表歡迎而且依法定的義務他能來他就要來但是呢從李登輝陳水扁馬英九到蔡英文總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
85.032 |
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106.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
由副秘書長出席各類的預算會議共有19次所以說不要特別對於吳釗燮秘書長今天他因為主席不准假然後就戴他帽子為難他修理他我覺得這都失之功運所以我要做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
事實的補充的陳述只是可惜我們的朝委在講電話沒有聽到我這一段沒有關係有直播可以回覆可以讓朝委好好的來詳加去核對吳四堯所說的樣樣相像都是符合事實跟真相好那進入我的質詢我請兩位複密委員好 四堯好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
两位辛苦了审预算要合理的监督要理性的审查如果是针对性报复性那么瘫痪了其他宪政机关就是涉及踩到宪法的红线所以说行政院已经针对总预算的二砍二山二动提出了释宪民进党团也已经提出了释宪我们希望宪法法庭能够给予史上前所未见的二砍二山预算做出一个合一的判准 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
189.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好 我們尊重憲法法庭後續的處理那首先呢 我想先就教於這個徐富密喔是總統昨天在520的演說當中其實是釋出了善意也遞出了橄欖枝他表達主動願意分享國安資訊給在野黨的領袖們換言之 希望能夠透過國安的專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
193.786 |
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205.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
很詳實坦率的讓在野黨的領袖知道台灣現在面臨的國安處境是什麼而大家因為資訊對稱了理解了真正了解中國對台灣的處處不友善境外敵對勢力我們需要朝野合力一起來抵禦這是總統的善意我認為也是總統治理國家促進朝野和解的善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.141 |
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238.663 |
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但是呢在野黨的黃國昌主席也是我們的黨團總召民眾黨他剛剛我看到他下午的回覆他說他當然很正面的肯定總統願意來釋出國安的這些資訊但是他要求要直播啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果說國家安全的資訊分享要直播那麼機密就不再機密了所有要坦率的像在野黨主席所報告的國安重要事項可能透過直播都傳達到境外敵對勢力去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然黃總召他有補充說ok 需要機密的時候可以不直播但是呢朝野領袖在共商國事探討國安資訊的時候至少要直播但是我認為這個會議怎麼切割啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
如果說在國安專報的會議分享之後在野黨的主席們領袖們要對外去召開記者會我們尊重嘛但是希望他們不要把國安資訊全部都揭露啊中共最高興啊所以說徐富密你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要用直播 什麼都直播連國安會議都要直播你覺得可行嗎 因為你們是未來規劃這個跟在野黨領袖報告的幕僚單位啊 可行嗎報告委員 我沒有想到這個任務這麼艱鉅你會習慣的坦白說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
344.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
如果我想總統應該講的當然我們現在正在規劃應該講的包括你的規劃是不可能有直播嘛對不對國防啦兩岸啦國安局的問題啦滲透啦灰色地帶啦這些事情事實上都牽涉到很難向外公開說明的情況如果有公開說明的情況那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在野黨的委員或者是黨魁們可以直接從媒體上看到不需要專報專報的事情都是一般我們沒辦法對外講的所以特別慎重嘛要特別邀集大家閉門會議嘛我接著再問所以您的意思是你們作為規劃這個像在野黨領袖的國安專報的幕僚機構你們也認為直播反而會讓這個事情破局嘛就搞破壞了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是沒有辦法把直播規劃進去的嗎我們沒辦法用直播的方式沒辦法也不應該那剛剛汪小林委員在質詢您的時候說你們國安會去開了很多國際的會議他一樣的邏輯要你把所有的國際會議見了什麼人談了什麼事要全部來清清楚楚的白紙黑字寫給所有的國人看 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
421.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
同樣的邏輯 如果國安會進行的這些非常重要的國際的串聯我們就是想方設法要在中國的處處打壓 盯梢之下去 找出一點點空間可是蔡英文黨的委員要你把這些會議去哪裡出訪 開什麼會 見了什麼人 要全部都揭露的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
422.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這不是搞破壞嗎 同樣的邏輯那乾脆翁小玲根據黃國昌委員的要求好了以後國安會出去開的任何一個國際會議都要全程直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那樣我們就出不去了就出不去了嘛就搞破壞了嘛所以說拜託在野黨的委員國家安全是什麼國家安全就是我們現在面對的處境有多麼的艱難我們面對的敵人是共同的一個就是境外敵對勢力就是中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
480.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以當總統這麼努力的就是我覺得真的是總統就是想讓這些黨的領袖知道我們現在面對的困境是什麼希望藉由這個國安專報讓他們可以看到事實然後seeing is believing而且去理解它然後去幫助自己的國家而不是搞破壞去幫助其他人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
482.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
501.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
如果要求國安專報要直播我覺得這就是搞破局了耶總統遞出了橄欖枝請在野黨的委員不要連橄欖樹都砍了好嗎我真的心很痛耶總統的用心良苦總統的願意資訊分享不是這樣子來被惡搞的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
來我需要一點時間不好意思主席佔用因為前面幾位委員針對預算也佔用了一點時間回到總統府的預算我認為合理的監督預算就是立法院的職責但是如果是報復性而且你看監察院煽動合併影響了97% |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
528.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
行政院煽動合併影響了83%、84%的預算而總統府也前所未見煽動合併刪減凍結了共74%這完全就違反了大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
562.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
391520號的解釋因為你利用預算的審查去讓其他的憲法機關沒有辦法擅盡他們的憲政忠誠義務但非常遺憾就是我們現在面對的總統府今天很辛苦我第一次看到你們的解動報告厚厚的寫了55頁下一頁下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
595.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這是前所未見的過去15年來不論藍綠誰執政不論立法院誰當家過去15年來平均凍結預算因為我們今天在解凍預算我就整理凍結預算平均凍結預算過去15年每年平均凍396萬今年凍了多少2.14億嘛對不對何富密所以今年的凍結是過去的54倍這前所未見嘛對不對何富密好下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
597.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
而凍結當中又鎖定業務費業務費被凍了96%而且設下前所未有的解凍門檻就是你們先執行了30%然後呢 再去申請解凍還要經過立法院院會的同意這也是前所未有的解凍門檻嘛對不對 何副秘好 那在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
622.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
639.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
而且預算是不能留用的 不能挖東牆補西牆所以你們現在是不是只剩下9176萬左右 是不是 是能撐到年底嗎就是總體預算被煽動之後 能夠用的只有9000多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
655.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
能撐到年底嗎我們現在很緊張也很痛苦剛剛有特別講到阿兵哥的部分那也不可能天天吃沙拉嘛我們就來講阿兵哥這一條好了你們被凍結的是廚師費嘛是憲兵的伙食費 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
656.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
677.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是保留的嘛 國防部的嘛那是兩邊嘛 國防部編有限兵的伙食費但是編在總統府的是這個膳食費是廚師的費用換言之沒有廚師了誰煮飯給阿兵哥是要叫阿兵哥叫Uber嗎剛剛翁委員居然讓我聽到他說阿兵哥沒有廚師煮飯去叫Uber哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
697.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有可能總統府的憲兵叫Uber嗎?私家委員 我跟您報告因為是元首的維安是啊所以天天吃外食那個一定會出事安全的疑慮食品衛生安全的疑慮這是基本的ABC嘛委員專業 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
709.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以說 伙食費是編在國防部 伙食費就算有 可是你廚師被砍掉了就像在野黨的委員一樣在司法法治委員會砍掉了監察院97%的業務費 包括他的油錢所以監察院是有司機的 可是他是剛好油錢沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
718.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
732.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
被砍掉了所以空有司機沒有油錢現在監委如果要用司機去查案妨礙要自己出油錢同樣的道理這實在是太可異了下一頁報復性的刪減總統的法定義務會受到很多的影響下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
740.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
746.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
總統府要進入黑暗的時代了嗎總統府的夜間電費已經暫停了水電費是不是剩下65萬可以用是的怎麼撐到年底在兩個禮拜就沒有錢繳水電費了是前所未見下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
757.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
772.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
總統的重要慶典的舉辦費剩下453萬很難再辦大規模的重要慶典了 對不對下一頁我知道總統不是總統我把那個那個召集人說成總統那個您站起來我會加快是資訊服務費我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
777.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
792.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
113年每個月平均有700萬次的駭客攻擊而且全年啊遭受這個DDoS的重大攻擊10次以上現在呢資安費用只砍到只有1627萬可以用喔可以撐到年底嗎資安會漏洞門戶大開嗎這是中國最高興的現在趕快來駭客攻擊了來最後下面一樣喔總統府是1919年蓋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
806.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
830.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
古蹟啊 國定古蹟啊依照文資法 古蹟要定期的修繕維護但是你們的修繕維護的房屋建築費用只剩下1840萬可以撐到年底嗎?司堯委員是文化的專業我們現在都很辛苦而且他需要符合文資法所以要執行起來真的很困難不要讓總統府帶頭違反文資法 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
834.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
856.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為呢房屋修繕養護費被35%動70%所以沒有辦法致用總統府這個文化資產不論誰當選總統未來也有可能吳宗憲在裡面工作擔任重要的職務羅志強就曾經在這一棟國定古蹟總統府裡面任職服務過 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
858.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
881.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
文化資產保存法我來自文化界不要讓總統府沒有預算去修復維護文化資產我後面還很多頁沒有辦法來論述我希望在野黨的委員趕快把預算解凍總統府是國家的總統府不是賴清德的總統府是全民的總統府我們一起來為預算努力謝謝 |