| IVOD_ID |
161733 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161733 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T11:11:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T11:20:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7db8b0077a7a147ab6d32bc34272b9029b325d7a793ed1225327a999415d811f7405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:11:03 - 11:20:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席 邱主委有請有請主委主委好好 這個雖然是請你備詢但是我要在這邊我們讚美一下我們吳董事長 |
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20.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
剛剛吳董事長理論上來講他是不用背詢的但他剛剛用了一些時間來清楚的對海基會的立場做了充分的表達包含他提到說和平應該是兩岸的共同利益但是和平難行卻成為了世界共同的問題這句話某一些層面來講深得我心我之所以要讚美他的原因是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
其實我們今天去談兩岸關係的一些變化其實非常關鍵的是應該需要看到所謂的完整性跟所謂的一致性昨天是賴清德總統就職一週年他很罕見的或者是很出乎意料的並沒有在這個就職演說中提及兩岸關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
56.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
84.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那這當然是某一種層面來講這是一種信號但是我們要把時間往回拉一路拉回他就職開始一路以來他對於兩岸立場的一些調整跟改變我希望藉這樣一點點的業務報告的時間我想聽一聽邱主委的看法跟評論這113年5月20號也就是他就職上任的當天他馬上將兩岸定位成為兩國互不隸屬這個主委你自己在業務報告的時候你是講兩岸互不隸屬到底是兩國還是兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
跟委員報告不管是中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬或者兩岸互不隸屬這個都是客觀的事實以及台海的現狀那我們在呼籲中國大陸就是一個重點要正視中華民國存在的客觀事實你如果不正視它 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你的對台政策都是要消滅中華民國並吞台灣兩岸就很辛苦因為你剛剛的回答表示這兩件事情其實是一樣的它真的是一樣的嗎它如果是一樣的話那為什麼你今天的業務報告是講兩岸而不是講兩國 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
146.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員報告我們是經常我們因為有很多句子要鋪陳那基本上就是我們經常講兩岸互不隸屬那就是這是客觀事實跟台海的現狀那不管怎麼樣就叫正事 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們中華民國客觀事實存在要正視台灣人民對於民主自由生活方式的堅持好 這些形容詞大家都聽很多這不是形容詞 是我們政策好 政策 我們都願意尊重 願意了解但是你看 其實剛剛就出現了所謂的不一致性這只是我的開頭而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
165.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今年的3月13號我們的賴總統賴17條強硬的表態把對岸定義成為所謂的境外敵對勢力並且提出5項統戰威脅跟17項的因應策略這俗稱的賴17條嘛對不對照理來講是順著但是到了5月17號他接受所謂的網紅敏迪的專訪的時候卻突然變成了大公司並小公司的時候應該要開好條件欸這個就開始出現所謂的不一致性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
203.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
如果中國大陸在賴清德總統定調又是兩國互不隸屬又是境外敵對勢力那怎麼可以允許併購行為呢主委 這樣子的一個說法是你的建議嗎跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
223.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我想兩岸互動重點就是在對等尊嚴那麼賴總統昨天也在強調只要對等尊嚴歡迎中國大陸跟來台進行各種的合作交流我們也期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
226.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
247.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在對等尊嚴的情況下兩岸可以透過交流取代圍堵透過對話取代對抗讓兩岸可以健康有序展開交流為兩岸的良性互動墊下基礎我想這是緩解兩岸關係最重要的公開的某一些層面是喊話我今天要問的問題就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
248.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
267.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是說你在LINE17條的時候把它講的境外敵對勢力然後現在又講說應該要用對話取代對抗這就叫做不一致嘛中委員沒有不一致沒有不一致沒有不一致為什麼會這樣因為我們面對的中國大陸非常嚴重的威脅統戰滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
270.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這我有講的這是一種複合性的施壓包括軍機艦擾台越來越嚴重這你剛剛講的不管是灰色地帶作戰或是說複合式施壓這些本質都非常理解但問題就是對岸顯然是沒有變的嘛它就是一直逼你一直壓迫你對不對對 不斷逼極限施壓我擔心的是我們自己沒有很清楚的一致性嘛如果你講民進黨執政當然要打對抗路線那你就明確而且清楚而且一致性那至少 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
299.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
322.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
在全世界各地在觀看在推兩岸的戰略等等的時候他有跡可循但是問題就是從去年的5月20號到現在你一下說兩國互不隸屬一下說要對話一下又講說境外敵對勢力一下又講說併購要提條件到了520滿一年之後對兩岸置之未提這件事情叫做不完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
322.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不一致某一些層面從全世界看待兩岸關係推演的角度來講這叫不確定性我提醒一下邱主委最近Foreign Affairs出了兩篇文章一篇是15號他寫The risk of war in the Taiwan Strait is highand getting higher另外一篇是5月20號The Taiwan Tightrope這兩篇文章我希望陸委會也許海基會可以去拜讀一下這當然來自於美國的智庫學者啊這個對於最近兩岸局勢跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
整體亞太和平安全架構下面的一些分析裡面有提到共同的兩個重點第一個要避免大家誤判情勢啊也就是說很有可能那個衝突是會爆發的如果美方沒有抓好情勢的話可能會出現擦槍走火的一個狀況另外這兩篇文章都明示暗示啊就美方應該要稍微遏制一下所謂的挑釁行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這話講得很清楚搭配前一陣子川普講的Unification and Peace我們有沒有受到美方的壓力或者指示就我的業務範圍我沒有就你的業務範圍你沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
414.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那我跟委員報告中國大陸對台灣的對台政策還是軟硬兩手硬的那一手就越硬所以我們剛剛說的複合性的施壓這就是我們為了維持現狀積極的維持現在讓台海現狀不被改變所以我們要有17項的因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那當然我們也是希望兩岸應該要正常健康有序的交流我現在真的很擔心啦就是你對外釋出的訊號一下是17項的強硬策略一下又釋出善意這不一致所謂強硬策略委員我們稍微跟您報告一下那個都是我們的正常防衛那個都是我們內部的這個強化機制並沒有對中國大陸有什麼挑釁那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
444.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
460.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
成為我們的說我們是境外敵對勢力那個也是國際公約的事實借用一點時間只是要提醒這個大選的時候我們賴總統曾經講這個他當總統的時候兩岸發生戰爭的機率一定最低但只是今日目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
484.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
中共舉行四次環台軍演其實我們政府的一言一行都牽動兩岸的敏感神經立場的論述要有一致性我今天不在這邊定義你應該要和緩或者是強硬因為這有時局的變化可是你要有一致性跟邏輯性要不然你會被全世界認定成為不確定因子跟不穩定因素這一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
486.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
賴總統滿意度下滑很多人對兩岸是心中有質疑的是不安定的我希望尤其在520這一周年又沒有聽到有具體的方向這是我認為這是跟國家安全是有關的事情因為不管是你的盟友在看待這件事或者是國內關心兩岸大事的人民在關心這件事情他都需要看到完整而且一致性而且清晰的論述這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
大概不會是你單獨入委會的事也不會只是海基會的事情但是整個政府團隊你的步調要一致你的態度要清楚國人才會安定這是本席今天要花一點時間來做政策提醒的部分另外因為時間超過我今天不多講經濟的部分一樣很重要現在我們面對全世界這個關稅衝擊美國跟你關稅等等要重新去談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
531.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
中國大陸的ECFA找收清單會不會因為兩岸關係的惡化或者是停滯不前有改變的可能性你作為兩岸關係的主要組織的單位有沒有做相關的一些兵棋推演這些內容我用書面的方式會後給你請你做詳細的答覆可以嗎可以 謝謝委員我們的政策主軸一貫而堅定就是堅定維護兩岸關係和平穩定的現狀變成和平穩定了好 OK 謝謝主委辛苦了好 謝謝委員 |