| IVOD_ID |
161707 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161707 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T10:49:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T11:02:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7db6055ba8fbdce2f16cdb65d50a7385bb6db0f420b3783afbd858267200b5a9bf45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:49:18 - 11:02:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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那下一位請我們蘇青前委員好謝謝主席我請次長還有台大院長好請我們次長跟我們台大院吳院長委員好好次長辛苦了吳院長已經被叫來第二次了辛苦了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好我問吳院長你們台大院員工現在員額是多少人我們自己的包括公職加院聘有八千多位但是我們還有外包人員大概三千多所以大概是一萬一到一萬二左右一萬一啦包括新竹啦這些分院都只有單單台大總院那你的主管你都認識嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
醫療的主管跟醫師的主管主管的家裡的人或者家裡的狀況你知道嗎某些可能知道 某些沒有所以你這些依主管級就好了你對他們個人的性別傾向性格 能力 能力應該知道其他的要去了解我看人才非常難 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
85.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以那個博克萊大學的校長講一句話說我們學校的那些教職員我只有管博子以上管博子以上 腦袋管比較重要對國家有貢獻喔那你要看我什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
115.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是我管理我的這些行政主管一般來講我們可以有從法的層次跟請跟禮的層次那我同意我只能 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
117.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
就是我們看得到而且法有規定的這一步我是可以做因為我常常跟我們同仁講在台大醫院即使你做到院長跟任何一個機構一樣我不是私人的所以我必須要有法可依有法可循而且我要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
最後一個是違法避救所以這十六字是我自己在做院長對自己的期許那我對所有的主管我也是這樣子的要求所以你也是屬於台北市衛生局管轄嘛所以一下子要跳到外部也是很奇怪啦所以醫師性騷性騷真的有刑事的責任很重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在没有现在还没有修法以前他就是用性平三法里面都没有都是行政处罚那你还刑事上没有判刑那你这边可以给他解职吗没办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
202.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你沒有在管理嘛我沒有在管理我沒有在管理我們法律也是要保障然後衛生局這邊醫師公會要給他送懲戒也可以是誰來界定是那個林姓姓交辦就把他抓起來是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不是 就是我們有一個很清楚就是說醫師假如真的根據醫師法不管是第25條他一戶懲戒的發動主體是醫師公會或主管機關所以只有醫師公會或衛生局可以那醫師公會要處理是你們要送還是送要送 沒有人送啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以現在是可以主動 根據還沒有修法的性平三法其實我們要送的是 主管單位是社會局所以之前大家關心的幾個案子 我們也都是根據這樣子去送因為發生的時候是還沒有修法 性平三法之前所以萬一 絕對是依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是並不代表說發生這麼遺憾的事情我們就沒有改進的空間我想今天立法院已經是我們國家的最重要的一個機構那這也顯示說其實我們不管怎麼樣都要根據法來做因為法才能夠保障最多數人的權益第二個是只要依法來做才不會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 那現在就把事情我們釐清啦您台大醫院發生這個性騷的案件不管是醫生啦各個角落都會發生啦各個單位都會發生啦 你有一萬多個元額或加上你們新竹啊 加上雲林啊 嘎嘎我們就萬人啊 萬五六個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那你們自己有一個信憑委員會嘛有嘛 議員表嘛那信憑委員會有做出決議之後是不是就把這個案子也送直接送台北市議事公會然後台北市議事公會有一個委員會嘛他開會說要送懲戒因為應該是由委員會來決定嘛你不能說你吳院長你爽你就給他拍板定那不可能的事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那我們的林市長更沒有資格講了 對不對你在衛福部你是獨島單位嘛所以你還要上社會局 還要上台北市議事館 也很奇怪啊所以你還不能一個流程喔 市長流程比較簡化的 你還要怎麼做不是只有議事啊 到處都會 議會到處都會發生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
374.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
報告委員 其實我們也因為這個事情我們目前正在檢討接下來就是包含各醫事人員的部分是不是要有一個比較明確因為它散在各個法裡面但是我們還是藉這個機會再強調因為我們醫事司也有相關的業務就是對於性騷擾防治的宣導所以不論是在性平三法內部修法之後已經給予這個主管機關以及相關負責人的權限這個部分其實應該是可以充分運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
375.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那再來的話就是剛剛提到的醫師懲戒這邊我們也希望說懲戒委員會能夠就是開醫師懲戒的這個會上能夠考慮到醫師在整個社會尤其是接觸病人這件事情上面道德上應該有的要求跟標準應該要更嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以你們的性評委員應該有職責也要這個案子要不要送懲戒就你們自己去決定然後再譬如說你們台北市醫師公會台北市藥師公會台北市什麼公會他們在接受這個案子之後他們在開會要不要懲戒要上幾個小時要停職要停職職業半年等等那是他們的職責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
然後結果再反給你們嘛那個是行政上跟懲戒上的處罰那自己刑責上 那是刑責上那個遙遙無期啊破到來的婚姻啊 對不對這樣是不是可以走 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
謝謝委員指導一條明路啦這個確實是我們這樣最簡單啦最明確啦而且我們其實那個性評委員會也有外部的委員不是都是議員有律師啊有教授社工人社會人士嘛等等嘛所以這樣會比較明快啦不然的話每次人家講這個我講不清啊講不清楚啊講到次長次長就講 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
459.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
482.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們還是希望我們當然是說在法律是法律是道德的最低底線那醫事人員尤其醫師我相信教委也是這樣想法就醫師我們事實上在那個道德的要求尤其是如果就是所侵害的對象就是自己的病患的話我相信這個是我們大家所不能容許的而且那個婦產科要是高危險科 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那也在藉這個機會補充就是說那你也是部長對阿所以會很生氣那當然其實在我們這個門診隱私維護的這個規範裡面本來就有要求在跟病患接觸的過程中要保障病人隱私那另外的話也要有對於病人一定程度的這些保障包含說可能要有其他人的陪伴等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
506.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以这个事实上在现有的法规内部我还是在强调现有法规是最低标准那大家我想在不论是在主管机关或者是在这个所职业单位医院的主管等等都可以援引现有的性平三法还有医师法跟医师承接办法但是在行为还有整个在运作的过程我想委员也知道住院医师如果是住院医师还在受训的过程 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
530.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個其實老師對他我們要給你什麼樣我在訓練上面要額外要求你什麼事實上是還有一定程度的權限而且現在的住院醫師要去考專科醫師之前還有一本這個訓練的護照他要完成相關的這些訓練才能夠去考專科那在這個過程裡面如果師長認為你 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
567.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在這個所謂應該學這些護照還學的不夠或者是我沒有讓你完成我因為我認為你必須要暫停你的學習來做其他的調查或者是重新把你的能力建立起來那事實上還是有一定的工具可以做啦還是可以要約束力啦好那我另外吳院長你請回我請次次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
現在很多單位來反映就是物理治療師OT、PT、藥師連醫師第一階段考試的錄取率都很低尤其是我給他看OT跟PT最近幾年的考照及格率都不到20%不到20%那我們教育的目的訓練的目的一般是 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
599.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
訓練從嚴 考試從寬要嘛就是訓練從寬 考試從嚴那現在長照3.0要開始了 需要這麼多人有這些書 現在要把中醫中藥商都把他幹掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
616.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那需要更多的藥師 還有中藥的學分補足等等那你藥師的考週率也都不低這個就有點有點奇怪奇怪的餒 次長這是要怎麼解決啦謝謝委員關切啦因為第一個事情我們接下來面對高齡跟少子化本來人力上面就會逐漸的遇到這個挑戰那也謝謝委員提到這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
665.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我自己以前是立委的時候其實我就注意過這個然後他包含幾個這個是前面的教考用嗎交的有沒有符合臨床的需求這點當然我們會持續來跟教育部來做這個討論因為這個是在教育部的權責第二個就是考那其實過去在考試院的考試裡面有一部分臨床的人員也反映過科企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
666.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
697.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我現在看醫師考試的砲案,第一階段在考,那個題目很淺淺的,專科醫師考試的題目這樣你要讓委員那麼厲害,命題委員那麼厲害,我來出給他考,我保證他不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
709.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那有這樣幹的啦藥師也是一樣啊8萬的考試考到這麼基礎的藥理都考到那麼難我是覺得有點吹毛求疵有點故意整人所以這個市長你現在跟考選部要的要合啊那像護理他也現在多考一次嘛是護理多考一次那其他的都考兩次啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
751.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
當然我們在兼顧這個專技人員的品質上面我們還是得要求啦但是我們也希望他考試訓考能夠符合臨床的需求對啦 當然這是一定要追求要有教但是那邊當然比較刁蘭課的12% 課到小孩都要有信心去啦現在小孩子又不像我們現在小孩子要用鼓勵的薄熟的 帶著素絲的 怎麼會沒有這樣一直發 一直發 大家都課不過去我覺得 我也接受這種 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
762.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
764.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 最後來拍片了 好不好謝謝 我有關注 謝謝 |