| IVOD_ID |
161697 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161697 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T10:34:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T10:49:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7db6c843c8269d02a73cdb65d50a7385bb6c32860b8eb41b24491e55a3148b2c4485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:34:26 - 10:49:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部、教育部就「性騷擾防治及外聘督導制度精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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在圖前舉委員質詢完畢後,我們休息8分鐘好,謝謝召委,召委辛苦了齁休息8分鐘,好來請次長,議事室今天有誰來?蛤?怎麼? |
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48.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員長市長早意思是為什麼是你來不是副市長來副市長有請病假請病假好不對副市長休假對不起我們是另外一個同仁休假有另外同仁受傷所以但是副市長有事請休假意思是有事請休假副市長也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
52.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那副市長不用來,市長應該可以來今天這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
雖然是次長來嘛,但是真的是次長有休假應該是次長可以來吧不一定說一定次長來就一定要副市長來啊因為副市長不用來嘛對不對我們回去了解我覺得因為部長剛好就是去參加那個市委嘛對不對對,那次長等同就是部長嘛所以應該次長來,市長應該就可以來才對而且這個事情今天跟他是有關係的嘛對啊好,謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我想這樣啦齁這個近期醫界分老很多您跟部長都是來自醫界嘛齁他不是有性騷、性侵犯、性侵案還有霸凌等等的這些狀況所以這個醫院的白色巨塔裡面還真的有很多改善的地方啦齁我想次長應該可以認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
104.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
118.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我們如果比照英國、美國都有監視醫師的公開平台除了醫師資格、背景、職業狀態還有查詢醫師有紀錄讓民眾可以清楚了解自己是被怎麼樣的一位醫師來看診所以目前醫師資格查詢系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
120.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
143.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那麼現在只能查詢疑似人員的職業縣市無法得知這個職業資格是否有效懲處與判決的紀錄這些落差 落差是很大跟委員報告如果他有辦法在職業登記上面就是我們職業紀錄有找到他現在是職業中的話那就是他現在是一個在職業他的執照是允許可以職業的狀態是 是 是但是我是說可以查到大致上就是這個樣子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
143.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
167.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在可以做抗拒的就是有在執政那邊這樣對啊 但是你們自己有跟你們的部長跟你們的司長有說一句話醫事司林業平司長也回應現行早已握有醫事名單要不要公布都很快 但應須在法律之下討論公布到什麼範圍 為不維護民眾就醫權益下盡快完成這在什麼時候要講的 1月份1月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
186.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
然後三個月內將研議揭露平台公布不良醫師醫院的名單這是你們的市長回應所以他今天沒來市長你怎麼有辦法代替他答覆這個但你部長也是有講喔建設平台公布名單可嚴厲啊那市長講什麼話應需在法律之下來討論公布到什麼範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒有法律依據嗎我們在法院上面必須要去確立跟委員報告現在的幾個進度啦就是說這幾個個案其實原來他在性我們後來修正過的性平三法不論是以醫院本身他是性平工作法然後他如果是學校附設的話也有教育部的這個性別平等教育法好那再來性騷擾防治法其實在這三個法源之下應該都有權利要求相關當事人停職或後續的性平調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
219.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
240.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那調查之後如果屬實其實我們也非常期待就是說接下來他能夠更主動的來跟地方衛生局通報之後來啟動醫師懲戒的行為沒有沒有要揭露這個平台基本上是你們醫事室的司長所講的而且會儘快然後他講的那句話要依據相關的法律的討論之下嘛就有了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
242.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這不能依據嗎醫師懲戒辦法第22條主管機關執行醫師懲戒委員會或是醫師懲戒副懲委員會之懲戒決議應執行命令及決議書刊登公報戶本並附送所屬的醫師公會嘛法院主管第33條針對判決又懲戒確定的名單屬政府應公開資訊嘛你還有什麼法律的依據跟委員報告就是現在已經完成懲戒的部分都可以有公開資訊出來對 判決一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
判決一樣 判決有對啊 為什麼你們堅持這個平台這麼久為什麼你們堅持這個平台還需要依據什麼樣的法律的論的討論 我不曉得啊然後你們一月份包含部長 次長都講了啊現在已經五二一了啊其實除了醫師之外 我們也考慮到一件事情啦這不只是醫師啦 也還有其他的醫師人員那散在各個法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
296.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以說我們現在正在研議就是說是不是把我們講的專技人員就是專業技術職業人員他在整個一旦是相關特定大家所關切這些犯法的事項能夠有一個比較明確的做法市長我會有再委婉你這個是你們部長跟市長尤其市長講這個講得這麼斬釘截鐵對不對會盡快那你的盡快一月講的到現在已經521了這個平台沒有困難吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
呃 一個月內可以吧 一個月內 跟委員報告齁 我們一個月內給委員報告好不好不是給我們的報告 不是給我報告 不是不 你要還我就早還給你的啊再跟委員報告齁 就是說我們接下來醫事師這個是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是我去要求吧我是提醒那你們就要去落實你們部長跟市長所講的落實部長講的有道理啦但是你去落實市長講的我覺得很不好意思所以他今天應該要來才對啊他怎麼會沒有來這個部分我會跟部長盡速來做處理好啦一個月內啦好不好那第二件事情有相關的法律你們找不到找給你了好那第二件事情我想全國關注的凱凱案市長應該是不僅要掌握啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
391.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
而且憤怒也難過所以今天我還是針對這事情要跟你討論我特別提到很多人就說是社會安全網出問題沒有啦這個小朋友是社安網已經接住了是接住之後還出問題如果要討論問題的本質應該是在這個地方然後這事情隔了這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
到現在沒有任何一個公部門的公務人員還是行政人員接受懲處沒有呢 那有沒有缺失薛前部長我跟當時在這個委員會跟他對話薛前部長認為新北市在處理問題上沒有崩潰重點新北市對脆弱家庭的評估沒有相關資料台北市沒有依據衛福部的處理原則建立適合照顧安置個案之居多人的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
案發後凱凱死後三個月雙北政府沒有任何作為這是事實嗎薛前部長的這四個評論我們都認同這總結啦我想不止於兒虎嘛雙北都有缺失但是到今天為止怎麼會沒有任何一個官員接受處分身為中央中央機關次長你怎麼看待這個事情你能接受嗎接受處分應該衛福部沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
台北市為什麼不依據衛部處理的原則建立適合照顧安置居托人員名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
當時衛福部的回應是說台北市政府認為斜列安置的資源足夠所以未建立保姆名單對不對當時是什麼回應嘛當時這樣對不對市長台北市現在請教一下台北市現在建立這個名單了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
應該這樣講齁就是說各縣市政府他會運用保姆當成安置資源大部分是這些縣市他的安置機構的數量或計量佔領數量不夠那台北市他是沒有用保姆來當成也有嘛所以他到現在還沒有建制嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
495.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
523.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他認為他不需要啦對他不需要嘛所以之前不需要現在也不需要嘛對不對好但是你再看一下喔雖然台北市到現在沒有建立這個名單但去年凱凱按這個發生之後他馬上北市府推動7加1守護計畫精進保母制度內容怎麼樣大致上講其中一項就好了齁7加1的改革守護計畫其中一項就是新增辦理家長推進優質保母計畫這樣不是在建立一個優質托育人員的名單嗎算不算 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這樣算不算他這個是優質的保姆他不見得是他其中有一項先生辦理家長推薦優質保姆計畫下面這一個你不要看大標你看下標算不算再建立一個名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
541.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
543.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以你意思是說城市上還是有些落差啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
559.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對於我們的催家或者是需要特殊安置的孩童在這一個計畫可能比較沒有針對到是啦 所以他認為他家裡還有很多的安置資源所以就不需要依照衛福部的指示嘛在辦理這個居家托育保姆建置名單嘛那為什麼還要再做這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
579.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主要尤其是凱凱案的檢討跟經濟事實上我們希望就是針對尤其是我是說他在拐一個彎啦他其實如果他不需要他說他的安置資源足夠他為什麼還在推動這個7.25計畫的經濟保護制度 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
600.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
610.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我懂委員的意思然後先辦你家長推薦六指保母計畫我家長推薦保母計畫你不用建制名單不然我推薦去哪裡我推薦給你中央啦我推薦給你嗎我推薦給你的時候你不用建制名單嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
615.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
640.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我想事實上除了家長推薦優質保母計畫它並不夠像我們所要求的其實尤其是對於催加或者是相關的這個督導或者是說在這個過程中去把中間的環環相扣能夠連結起來我簡單講嘛再拐個彎回來嘛對不對特別是他現在做這個事情他做這個事情之後他還會像之前就丟給兒童聯盟自己去隨便找一找嘛不可能嘛就會依照這樣來做處理嘛應該是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
643.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
664.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們其實希望他在整個制度內部能夠檢討不要讓他落高啦所以我才講說如果真的台北市認為他沒有這個缺失為什麼要這個精進計畫 其一嘛那其二同樣的如果要在俄互聯盟隨便找一個保姆安置的新北市政府怎麼可能完全不用檢討 不需要有人負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
665.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
683.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
也跟我們報告就真的是在尤其是這樣脆弱家庭或者是特殊儲育兒童的部分他在保姆的挑選上面應該可能跟一般所說的這個家長推薦的優質保姆可能是不同的我只是提供幾個點讓次長還有讓相關單位來做了解嘛他不只這樣這兩點再看一下這個台北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
685.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
713.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
114年5月13號新聞稿他說市長宣布改革所務計畫每一項都要盡盡推動落實且114年度持續盡盡辦理包含保母訓練強化並增加回遊訓練113年底辦理市長次無一兒童增加出院前訪視頻率三方共訪機制全日拖一年六訪下面紅字請市長再看一下為目前中央尚未將一年六訪三方共訪入法或決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
715.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
725.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們去年我們去年4月30跟5月1號都有實施我們相關的工作指引那這個指引裡面我們也強調說這個居家托育的要有分級的訪視跟輔導而且不預約的制度那用安排不同的時段來訪視而且針對特殊需求的孩童的話其實他的訪視次數應該增加而且是至少6次 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
746.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
771.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
台北市政府說沒有啊沒有入法啊沒有決議啊你們相關單位都沒有在掌握針對凱雅案是造成全國這麼大的一個關注讓人這麼多的憤慨然後今天發這個新聞稿說你們到現在都還沒有將這個六法三方共法入法或決議決議喔你們都沒有做喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
772.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
787.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
而且是5月13號發布的新聞喔你們有處理嗎?你們有因應嗎?誰處理誰因應嗎?一年前我們就給了指引那這個部分如果這樣子的話是不是我們再做一次比較明確的澄清跟說明所以這個你覺得是台北市故意為之? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
788.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
808.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
還是真的你們沒有做 講清楚啊我們去年四月跟五月我們都有特別針對這樣的個案我們有要求做居家托育服務中心的訪視工作指引去年四月三十 其實裡面就已經有韓文直轄縣市政府居家托育服務中心的訪視工作指引第五點裡面講得很明確嘛 分級訪視嘛 對不對沒有啊 而且電影節目看這個什麼過程都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
815.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
831.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我來澄清這不是要澄清 他是挑釁的還是還有其他縣市 根本真的不曉得還是你們上令上令就是沒辦法下塔 就會產生障礙一直在障礙中我們這個韓班之後就全台灣的各縣市政府都要收到我們的這一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
832.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
853.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有人說到為什麼發這個新聞稿發這個新聞稿為什麼你們都不應應你們都不回應我們再來做一次對外的我覺得社長你趁部長現在不在你考核可能也不要整頓一下是不是有些人眼睛都怪怪的還是要裝睡 還是要裝瞎不然為什麼這種事情會發生我們會積極的再做一次澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
853.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
876.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
然後我在這邊具體三個要求剛剛那個要求是一個月的衛部一個月內要建置完成醫師的資訊這個結構平台一個月內針對整個家外安置的房市狀況進行一年後進行一年後嘛對不對進行這個總檢討第一了解各縣市市府有落實106房第二縣市間的房市量能夠不夠第三市府又如何立行公事而且無法在第一時間發現狀況尤其新北市可以吧好謝謝我們來推動謝謝委員謝謝 |