IVOD_ID |
161567 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161567 |
日期 |
2025-05-19 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
17 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-05-19T12:17:25+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-05-19T12:35:29+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:18:04 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f09baf38d7ea4bb460239b9191e0d12eeaeec3a664eb535367f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
委員發言時間 |
12:17:25 - 12:35:29 |
會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議(事由:邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊,顯非商業廣告目的利用,質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告,並備質詢。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】) |
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好謝謝主席我請司法院副秘書長 麻煩副秘書長 法務部政部長 政部長NCC主委 NCC主委代理主委 代理主委還有中華電信副總好 |
transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.505 |
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其實今天我們主要是談在這個簡訊就是霸團組織顯然是已經很精準的針對了地區發了這個相關的簡訊那這個簡訊到底有沒有違反相關的個資法那麼根據自由時報的報導 |
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自由時報報導引述司法院說有違法可以提起救濟那司法院說近期各地進行的公職人員罷免案目前尚處於罷免選罷法規定的提議或連署階段民眾收到罷免連署簡訊可能涉及違反各自法那我想請問一下我們的副秘書長請問一下到底有沒有違反各自法 |
transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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請說這個部分我們剛在報告中有說就是還是要看到看他的整個那個程序因為司法這個最後事實上是在那個尾端所以要看那個個案所呈現的這些狀況才能夠做就按照這個我這個解訊內容給你看啦 |
transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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好 給你看 因為它這個是有它有鎖定區域嘛它不會到台北來讓我去憑證去去簽聯署書啊它也不會讓我去新店簽聯署書啊那它的發送是有鎖定在它的選區這樣有沒有違反各自法那個報告委員 剛才不管是哪一端 但是最後這個行為有沒有違反各自法 |
transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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各自有被受到保護嗎?那自由時報是假新聞嗎?他說霸團簡訊可能涉嫌違法所以你現在不敢講了? |
transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.628 |
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你不敢講 請問一下那個法務部正部長像這個行為有沒有違反各自法 |
transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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這個行為有沒有 要就個案的認定那是個資法有沒有那個處罰是要違反第六條還有第十五條 第十六條 第十九條跟第二十條就是說對違反那個個資的因為個資的收集處理利用都有法定的一個嚴格的標準嘛那你違反的話 這個如果說有人違反的話 |
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這個我的意思就是說他可以很精準的在這個區域裡面發送給這個區域的這個就是簡訊發送給這個區域的受眾那這沒有各自外洩的問題嗎就是我們就看個人資料的定義個人資料包括他的個人資料的定義好部長我要問那個自然人還有一些什麼比如說出生年日身分證號碼電話號碼等等 |
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而以直接間接識別該個人的資料也就是說如果單純的一個電話號碼我們也沒辦法知道這個是誰的如果說那個簡訊說我某某麻煩你來支持這樣才有違反個資法這個就是很明確的個人資料 |
transcript.whisperx[10].start |
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如果他只有一個單純電話去辨識這到底是誰的電話無法辨識他有沒有違反個資可能在這部分可能這要再往前去推是不是有沒有提供那部長我請問一下像這個案例因為民眾都很緊張那我們會針對這有沒有違反個資法來做調查嗎 |
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只要有人來告訴告發那個訴訟人員228告訴我們就來查到底有沒有違反各自法好那我想請問一下因為像我是被罷免人我們很多委員是被罷免人那假使被罷免人這是罷團發送的嘛那假使被罷免人針對這個區域也發送這樣的簡訊就是說拜託你要出來投票要投不同意罷免請問一下 |
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要不要辦所以我有很擔心的事啊因為現在都是辦藍不辦綠嘛所以我們擔心的是罷團這樣子都沒問題司法院也說看個案然後法務部也說看個案然後等到呢等到被罷免人也同樣的狀況也同樣的去買簡訊的時候那可能這不一樣嘛這不是說讓你去連署嘛就是拜託你投票啊請你投票不同意罷免啊哇 就有事了 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
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因為你們的雙標是很厲害的啊這個如果各支法如果說這個街道檢修各支法的 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.05 |
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的問題的話那是屬於接到簡訊的人接到簡訊的人他是被害人嘛對民眾就告發啦民眾怎麼沒有告發你看他還提供簡訊給大家對不對看看有沒有成立他怎麼樣的一個一個到底是怎麼個人資料的外洩的一個問題所以啊部長會不會雙標啊不會雙標啦這個 |
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這個辦案本來就是依照證據來認定犯罪事實因為你們雙標很厲害啊沒有沒有 這個委員我們不能夠這樣直接就給他貼這個雙標這個我們要維持一個純淨的一個辦案空間有證據就辦嘛 那我們會辦與不辦之間在於你們嘛來 那個我想請問一下NCC因為有關於簡訊 |
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集中在特殊條件這個是在簡訊這些商業行為非常普遍 |
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395.448 |
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譬如說 因為其實一般商業用得更廣啊比如說有些建商我做一個建案我就是要有些特殊的有些特殊我就是鎖定在這個區域的或者是呢比如說一些投資理財的當然投資理財詐騙簡訊最多嘛所以呢 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
418.696 |
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439.094 |
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現在我知道你們有一個防止詐騙 有關於這些簡訊 就是這些電信資料的管理的指引嘛有沒有 有嘛 對不對那 這個當然它原來的出發點是防止詐騙 因為詐騙行為太多所以你們這個指引請問一下上路了沒有 |
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112年就上路了持續在修正當中商業簡訊如果有網址連結有電話號碼還有短碼部分我們都會來封阻除非他經過驗證符合正當實驗在指引裡面請問一下在指引裡面他如果去限定他的特殊條件我剛講他的特殊條件別說他必須我限定在桃園 |
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地區我限定在台北市或台北市的哪幾個區域或者我限定在他比如說他有過投資行為類似這種商業化的這種簡訊請問一下如果在這些的就是販賣簡訊院就是幫企業去那個投放這簡訊這個在不在你們指引的這個管理的範圍裡面 |
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不在但是在原來的我們地形化企業有要求還有個資法本身也有要求它是你要提供LBS服務必須要用戶同意才可以提供才可以提供對就是經過合法或使用者同意那我請問一下因為這個事件呢今天有那個什麼請問一下你們說呢 |
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因為調查了解三家行動通信業者都沒有提供簡訊發送門號清單及基地台區域廣播技術LBS給簡訊代發業者就是說我們的三大電信業者都沒有提供那我請問一下這些簡訊代發業者的資料拿來的那就要問簡訊代發業者手上的資料其他公司是如何提供資料給他如何他可以把它歸類對不對 |
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那就請到公司的資訊來源就不知道怎麼來源來來來我請中華電信喔因為他們是你的客戶嘛來是林副總是 |
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559.904 |
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582.701 |
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因為你們是上游嘛中游就是這些簡訊代發業者所以你們沒有給他們他們資料哪來的怎麼生出來的其實他們的資料我們大概無從去了解無從要求無從理解不知道他怎麼來的 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
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605.478 |
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他自己可以生成出來跟羅委員報告每一家公司他在經營相關的業務都有他的神通廣大他應該都要依照各自保護法來做相關的當然啦我就是問你嘛既然他是你的客戶你沒有給他這個資料那他資料哪來的怎麼從天上掉下來還是從地底下竄上來 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.971 |
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哪來的 不知道電信公司在這個案裡面就是純粹的網路通訊傳送的這個角色都不知道齁好 那請問一下 NCC 主管機關請問一下按照我們的電信業者說我們要給他們但是簡訊代發業者卻有這些資料你們查過沒 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.656 |
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656.732 |
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我們的職權範圍措用法的職權範圍內就是電信業者這部分我們調查過兩次行政調查那簡單再跟委員回報剛剛說有兩個層次第一個層次是用戶同意LPS第二個層次是A傳給B傳給CC是電信公司最後傳給使用者B是簡訊大發業者A最上一端的行銷公司他為什麼會有資料要由這個行銷公司來說明他要負這個法律責任他是要怎麼取得是合法還是 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
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transcript.whisperx[28].end |
684.15 |
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那所以這個調查責任是不是在NCC不是不在NCC在哪裡啊在它對應的相關主管機關它對應主管機關是什麼它是行銷公司目前初步應該是經濟部經濟部齁經濟部應該包商包海齁那因為它違法個資法的問題最近法務部大量在查違反個資法的問題啊那所以請問一下部長法務部部長這該不該你們查 |
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688.395 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
701.827 |
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反正那個有涉及到犯罪的有經過告訴高發等等的那當然我們會啟動調查那不管不要說什麼個資啦如果說還有什麼其他的犯罪包括像這種可能涉及過去有查過嗎 |
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705.27 |
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過去有查過嗎這個我沒有統計的資料怎麼會沒有查過這麼多詐騙很多詐騙就是透過簡訊的詐騙我剛剛講說簡訊簡訊的問題我剛剛講說簡訊這些所發的簡訊有 |
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transcript.whisperx[31].text |
被設定特殊條件 並不是在選舉啊其實過去選舉 我直接說 我們也常常有很多的政治人物啊就是到了中秋節啊 過年啊 他也會發送簡訊嘛給你拜年啊 什麼之類的那在一般的商業行為裡面也非常多那最氾濫的確實就是詐騙 因為最害怕的就是詐騙嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
750.49 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
756.535 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以照理說你們應該早就針對這一些因為防詐騙早就應該啟動相關的調查怎麼會到現在都告訴我好像沒有人在管而且也不知道他的資料哪裡來的你關心的就是那個詐欺的那部長根據你們過去的調查因為我剛剛講說詐騙最多嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
775.569 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
781.391 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
根據你們過去的調查這些點訊代發業者如果有這些特殊條件他的資料哪裡來的因為NC說他只查電訊業者電訊業者說我們沒有啊我們沒有提供啊所以你都不知道犯罪集團的問題當他變成詐騙行為這麼多的時候他已經不是個案他變通案啊請問他資料哪裡來的 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
803.494 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
808.076 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個要每個犯罪的你也不知道這個每個犯罪類型疑問都三不知我不是疑問三不知這個我沒辦法跟你講說到底是哪個案件是從哪裡來的所以這個有些是有些廣告頭髮商有些是脫波的人是給的嘛那有些是要怎麼收集的就是最原始的那個 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.584 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
832.727 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那個前端的那個是誰收集處理他把這些賣掉所以呢我在這邊不要為了cover這件事情來部長不要著急喔我要講的就是說不要為了cover這件事情這個事實上在簡訊就是這些商業簡訊裡面已經非常慣常慣常的這些資料就是他常常是用特殊因為他要精準行銷嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
849.691 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.794 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
因為他不能海量發送海量發送實在太貴了他要精準行銷所以這個照理講尤其我們詐騙這麼多你們早就應該去整理出他的樣態啊怎麼到現在什麼都不知道好我這邊只有兩個要求第一個要求像這樣子如果你們確定他是有違反各司法之嫌那你們該調查就要調查不要為了去cover哪些集團 |
transcript.whisperx[37].start |
879.346 |
transcript.whisperx[37].end |
882.451 |
transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第二個 請你不要半藍不半綠不要半藍不半綠我們同樣的同樣到時候 罷團可以用被罷免的人也同樣可以用 |
transcript.whisperx[38].start |
895.905 |
transcript.whisperx[38].end |
919.114 |
transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是不是 應該是這樣的一個標準所以我要講的就是說該調查要調查第二個在調查的時候就請你不要再雙標了我知道你今天下午要開一個記者會我都不曉得你們到底要有什麼樣的資政記者會是要告訴大家我們這一年司法來的豐功偉業就是 |
transcript.whisperx[39].start |
920.494 |
transcript.whisperx[39].end |
924.838 |
transcript.whisperx[39].text |
關了一個在野黨的主席對不對然後抄了八個在野黨的黨部關了多少的人家黨部的主委逃掉多少的經濟的重要的這些經濟犯我不曉得你今天下午是不是要公布這些啦當民意對於司法的公信力滿一度這麼低的時候 |
transcript.whisperx[40].start |
948.378 |
transcript.whisperx[40].end |
963.047 |
transcript.whisperx[40].text |
請你們拿出真正的民眾關心的這個證物而不是在繼續的為政治服務我不是關心幾個案件我們是關心所有的被害人我不是關心幾個案件我們關心的可多了 |
transcript.whisperx[41].start |
963.567 |
transcript.whisperx[41].end |
967.731 |
transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以剛才因為有限時間關係像剛剛羅志強委員所提的反正我們呢我們黨團也已經提出相關的這個法案的修正也希望法務部能夠採納能夠回應13萬多人在網路上大家的一個期待這個情況我相信這部分我們就在這已經在修法了我們會更者的情況能夠更加保護我們的這些的 |
transcript.whisperx[42].start |
990.349 |
transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1018.159 |
transcript.whisperx[42].text |
兒少 我們絕對不能允許這些的剛才那個主席也跟我們講 我們那個包括是不是真的要殺人 或者是一個致死的是不是在各一個家庭我們都在研究如果 凌虐七歲以下 凌虐七歲以下 兒童致死是不是應該可以 處以死刑 或者無期徒刑因為剛才也講喔 對不對 你凌虐這麼小的小孩你就知道一定對他造成非常大的傷害嘛委員 我的愛心 我對同情 我絕對不會輸給你的啦 |
transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1021.226 |
transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1042.351 |
transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們今天在講法欸你不是在跟我選舉啊這個不是 部長你不需要這麼多的政治語言所以我剛才講說因為對這些兒童 我們真的是天理 這些的殘害真的是天理燃容所以 淩孽幼童 就是我說七歲以下七歲以下的淩孽幼童 |
transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1043.751 |
transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1053.436 |
transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個其實不是叫過失啊這就是故意了嘛對不對這個絕對不是故意的喔好所以我們因為我們這個很委員不知道那個起訴的法條他會召開公聽會排公聽會到時候也會審查相關法案希望法務部拿出最大最大的誠意這個委員妳放心這部分我們現我們會用 |
transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1066.543 |
transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1072.351 |
transcript.whisperx[45].text |
以最周全的保護的一個方式我想這個是回憶名義啦我們一定會回憶名義這個請委員放心那我想這個對兒童少年的一個保護我們一定要不遺餘力那我們也謝謝委員請你有具體的行為來推動好謝謝好謝謝王委員 |