| IVOD_ID |
161551 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161551 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T11:03:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T11:24:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:21:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f0bd197b0e776ac7fe239b9191e0d12eea0be1aa9793fcacdda146c96c832ca56e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:03:03 - 11:24:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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請司法院的王副秘書長還有法務部的鄭部長麻煩鄭部長今天叫他局長請假請吳副局長副局長對啊 民進黨的吳思堯 我也強調說辦案啊不能夠選擇性辦案一定要公正跟公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
52.728 |
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那我的了解中選會這次這個罷免這個連署啊罷免民進黨的移送了16個案子罷免國民黨的移送了15個案子16比15結果啊從數量上來看國民黨大概辦案每個案都辦了而且大收手又大收押民進黨現在只辦了兩個案子馬上就請回了補定 我先請到補定從質跟量 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
81.709 |
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91.468 |
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辦國民黨是這樣辦的大收手大收押然後民進黨是這樣辦這個符合剛剛吳思瑤說的沒有譴責性辦案是公正公平的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.723 |
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121.121 |
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我想檢常在 我相信檢常在辦案就是依照證據證據來認定犯罪事實那我也尊重檢常對個案的一個偵查規劃我們不能夠用就是辦哪個黨派幾件或哪個黨派幾件來去衡量就是說這個司法辦案是有雙標所以我們還回到個案的犯罪情節跟整個證據不一樣所以這個委員會講說這部分我是不同意啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
121.82 |
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144.787 |
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你最少嘛 就是中選會送過去了罷免國民黨那幾個案子啊 十五個案子啊光是那個進度啊 你就沒辦法跟人民交代啦你國民黨雷厉風情 幾乎每天一個案子一個案子在辦民進黨你十五個案子丟在那裡我委員跟不清楚喔 這個案件是要看證據的啦不是說看人家給他辦幾個啦那中選會嚴重失職喔 中選會沒有證據他為什麼要移送十五個案子過去那裡你是在打臉中選會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
150.098 |
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158.784 |
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這個沒有答案 這個中選會就是你是在搭理中選會嗎因為中選不是辦案單位嘛所以不會辦案機關所以他給辦案機關來一個告發那有辦案機關 只有個案來證據的蒐集然後做一個認定 偵查規約來做一個辦案所以這個並沒有矛盾啊有沒有選擇性辦案 有沒有辦男不辦女人民眼睛是血亮的我剛剛講得過清楚了大家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
176.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
189.723 |
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明天就是賴總統91週年了也是你當法務部長一年了然後講不光彩賴總統的滿意度今天聯合報最新的剛剛公佈的不滿意度高達53%這個是我們從1997年明顯總統以來從李登輝開始五年來總統民調最低的前幾天TPPS的民調也很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
207.025 |
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220.555 |
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不滿意的不滿意度啊比聯合報做得還高55%耶今天我特別要問的大家知道嗎TPS做的民調啊人民最不滿的就是司法改革崩盤博定你先休息一下我先請教司法院的司法院長久也是受到尊敬的啊可是最近這一兩年沒有發現整個那個每次那個民調裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
238.197 |
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248.105 |
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司法體系從司法減掉受到人民很多的質疑父母你看看不滿意度高達58%滿意的人才30會不會覺得很不民主臉上無光你們有沒有做一些檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
261.254 |
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271.852 |
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你之前檢討的是中文字嘛 對不對 那個案對中方那個案子嘛 對不對其實最近案子真的還不少我現在TBS公佈完已經兩三天了嘛司法院內部應該沒有再檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
275.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
288.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
報告委員其實我們司法同仁大部分司法同仁都非常認真敬業這幾年負擔非常大因為案件成長非常多我們的同仁也必須要鼓勵士氣我想這個民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
291.984 |
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315.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為這個原因沒有分析嘛就是說他很有可能是因為近期己見就是那個被判有罪那個被告潛逃啊這個部分因為民眾會有那個近期印象那我想這部分我們司法院確實就如之前所說的我們確實是應該要那個深圳檢討對我們希望深圳檢討然後找出一些答案做一些改革好不好你先來我請我請這部長是複密說他們司法院有深圳在檢討發不播有做了一些檢討嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
322.25 |
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338.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們希望我們都相信檢查債辦案都是依法公正安全按照證據來認定犯罪事實那回應民眾的一個期待那我想這個整個一個民調都是任何的民調我們都是會做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
339.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
345.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們現在嚴重的就是最近的時候不是好像今天在看TBS的最近的時候有做的民調大家對檢調都搖頭啦你看政治 但是民主社會啊你看民進黨去辦那個下鄉叫什麼 人民是頭家 人民當家頭家已經死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
358.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.652 |
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不是跟TVBS 你看TVBS不滿意五成八 滿意的才三十因為我不曉得我們那個委員是哪個案件我們不應該辦啦 因為我也不曉得啦那我覺得 你說一個罷免 罷免的連署大家就害怕了 你還不知道要對一個案來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
392.985 |
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你說案子可多你要問我哪一個案子你光是柯文哲最近那個我們不要再談個案你不談個案你問我哪一個案子對啊案子可多咧剛剛負面都還知道說有中文字這個案子人家也知道某些重大案子要去反省對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
393.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.644 |
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阿你這個連署問題你讓人家覺得說你是辦案不案例那完全沒有公正公平選擇性辦案阿你自己都不檢討 完全不能割案的話就是按照證據來辦案喔那我們講辦案本來就是就是完全回復到證據來做一個認定嘛我們現在是民主社會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
412.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
429.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你的每一分的你的領的錢都是民脂民膏第二個我剛才說的民進黨去辦活動 他們也是說人民是老闆啊那你從每次的民調 老闆都跟你說了喔不滿意度已經那麼高了而且老實講你們是賴清德十一項重大的施政裡面最慘的耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
434.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
443.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
十一項裡面最慘的耶今天不是也有個民調嗎?五成八的民眾認為政治利益介入的減掉介入的司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我來講不是一個民調 這個我不同意啦這個什麼正在介入司法我不同意我也希望就是說部分任何的黨派對司法都要給司法一個辦案的純正空間我也不希望說在哪個地方去對司法做一個施壓用群眾的力量去做一個施壓那我想各界的聲音我們都會仔細去聽法定 你是法母堡的大家長啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你有責任讓法務體系的檢調每個人走出去都是有方的啦現在就是討厭了嘛結果你還一直在這邊強辯你的責任是什麼第一個你是頭是到家長啊對不對老講總統為什麼任命你當法務部長我相信不是來當打手或者讓人民不信任你對不對檢察官一個純淨的一個檢調純淨的辦案空間純淨的辦案空間這個請委員能夠支持部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
519.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你接這個華為部長職要做什麼事情?第一個你一定要有好的歷史定位嘛對不對?你對過去三年,可能後來要做三年四年,可以做八年好不好?你留下來這段時間的58%的不滿意那你要去改啊,而且你是大家長啊你要讓你下面的人可以服氣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好來 我們來看某些案子最近啊 為什麼人民那麼不滿剛才說過 史幻林逼到中文字這個案子這一個案子 小林有控嗎這個案子引起人民多大的質疑跟不滿之前南檢在辦的時候 起訴的時候大家講說 哎 終於有動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
546.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就台北地驗他竟然說沒辦法證明陳董就是陳仲諺雖然那個袋裡面都清清楚楚就有陳仲諺那個圖像啊現在剛剛司法為什麼被那麼多的質疑剛才吳思瑤說一定要公正嘛不要選擇性辦案嘛你這段時間你看你最近這幾年來民進黨的不只陳仲諺 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
573.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
601.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
要嘛跑掉了對不對棄保險要嘛跑掉了要嘛就輕判更嚴重很多都是無罪你們還負責監聽你看你們監聽的那個譯文裡面多清楚多少證據也都沒問題所以人民為什麼會58%就現在看來好像是這車子一碰到民進黨就轉彎嘛國民黨就送飯嘛那個落差太大嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
603.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
627.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
柯文哲不是這樣嗎柯文哲的案子你看最近這幾天你傳朱瑤虎來法官是獨立審判是不會做任我們不應該要給法官做任何的一些的一個干涉你剛問我哪個案子就是因為最近的太多案子人民都有很多意見你柯文哲你看你的北檢找了朱瑤虎去當證人要咬個柯文哲就弄到連 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
644.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他自己講說什麼柯文哲跟沈千青碰面裡面談到尖華城 結果他正常是用推測的他整個人在外面 他就跑去看朋友結果他可以這樣推測那第二個210 他也沒有任何證據結果呢 你們北檢可以把他當成一個重要的證據起訴柯文哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
645.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
663.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
柯文哲跟沈憲爺講裡面都有不正訊問這個是被法院審理說到底這個政經能力有沒有夠證明的話我想法官會獨立審判所以你看那麼多案子都有問題的時候我們要給法官一個獨立的一個辦案的一個空間我們尊重我們也都非常尊重法院的判決至於證據夠不夠那個是在法庭公訪的問題那是一個舉證的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
665.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我想這個既然在法院審理中我們要給法院一個獨立純淨的辦公空間所以這部分我們都不會去批評法院是什麼審判不獨立或者是不公正的一個問題那我們完全從證據來做一個認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
681.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
用證據的公法一切用法定程序用法律的一些的規範來做一個證據跟審判那我想這個我必須要尊重司法當有人民25萬人上街頭已經吶喊在怒火了當所有民調都能呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
715.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
司法改革是崩盤的大家對於黨檢沒議題有那麼多的質疑人民也透過民調跟你講了我們期待看到從代總統到司法院到檢調有一些檢討我相信是不是在強辯你有沒有解決問題還是越講人民越生氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
736.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
再過個幾天新的民調又出來就會打臉你了我覺得我們就看人民會用各式各樣的方式表達出來我剛特別提醒你一個點你是賴清德十一項重大施政裡面最慘的不滿意最高的滿意度最低的光是這點你就要趕快好好去檢討了好來我來請教那個蜂蜜吳思瑤啊前幾天就在這裡造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他說啊 法庭直播需要593億會不會妳那天好像也在場對不對是哪來的 593億 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
790.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
法庭直播需要593億嗎我想他需要那個經費是看他那個計算基準如果說是要每一個法庭就是然後都那個硬體那個建置的話他事實上那個費用很高沒有錯我先跟你講我們現在在詢詢對不對在詢答現在都是前程直播啊你知道嗎立法院一年那麼多場的現場直播我們八個委員會嘛對不對一年你知道多少錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
820.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
保安委員這部分我不瞭解胡思堯說要593億這是將近593倍的造謠耶立凡一年的直播費用一億怎麼可以這樣造謠呢這是將近600倍的造謠太離譜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
832.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以我今天把真相跟大家講這是第一點錢不需要這麼多第二個台灣民眾黨的提案很清楚啊我們是針對什麼特定重要的社會矚目案件啊你說凱凱案大家關不關心很關心柯文哲案子大家關不關心很關心啊重大的社會矚目案件才要撥啊所以不是所有庭都在撥嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
853.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
875.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以請不要再造謠了錢第一個本來沒有那麼多第二個民眾黨非常的負責我們是針對特定重大社會矚目的這個案件好不好所以不是叫你所有的全部都要補沒有而且提出來當事人提出來之後你們還可以還可以決定說這個是不是屬於真正的特定重大的社會矚目案件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
877.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
897.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那個報告委員即使是那個重大矚目的那個案件的話他跟整個那個審判那個制度就是為了要追求一個公正的那個判決這常常那個有時候那個目的經過那個法庭直播之後是會受到影響的這個部分必須要非常審慎這個直播是你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
899.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
923.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
開這個私改國事會議早就定了欸2017年蔡英文總統召開的私改國事會議欸裡面喔 念一段文字給你聽好不好私改國事會議是有做出建議那但是它還是必須要經過那個主管機關非常負責跟審慎那個周延的那個評估才有辦法去實行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
924.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
950.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我先唸一下當初那個決議之後整個輿論事實上也有非常非常多的意見這部分都可以去看的一步一步來啦 第一 當初的結論是什麼107年司法院跟法務部要逐步開放法庭直播預計在執行意見後一年內要完成草案函請立法院審議這樣有夠清楚了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
952.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
974.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
總統有開的耶而且明明確確要司法院跟法務部做這件事情嘛而且老實講 後來國民黨 民進黨都提案啊就是不見司法院跟法務部的案子啊這是當初的結論啊你可以看啊 這個有啊 對不對那你就跳票啊 欺騙大眾啊而且全世界很多先進國家都在直播 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
981.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1009.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
鄉民逮捕那個案子最清楚 你看六個人在看而且這老實講 這是救我 要求你們這個司法公正性 司法改革崩盤被人家質疑一個很好的一個藥啦你這是公開透明嘛在那個直播過程裡面大家會發現檢察官的這個起訴的這個內容他到底有沒有揉製罪名有沒有把重要的這個關鍵的這個筆錄把它蓋起來有沒有不正的這個詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1012.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1024.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你明明是頭家啊 全世界都是這樣子你國內的這個私改 奪私會也是這樣啊怎麼可以現在反而倒退入然後我剛剛跟你講 經費上也不是問題啊沒有吳思堯 趙有那麼多錢啊好 民眾黨會已經提出版本了我們現在禁錮二讀了嘛我們現在禁錮二讀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1034.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1057.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那我跟你講我們很期待得到司法院跟法務部的這個支持然後講這個不是為了個人任何一個人這是為了台灣整個司法改革也為了司法整個國公該透明這個是就目前就你們啦救命司法院跟檢調體系這段時間受到質疑很好很重要的一大步我今天要趕快跨出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1059.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1082.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
報告員其實目前的那個法庭公開其實就已經非常的公開透明了所有公開的案件所有的司法記者跟官信人都可以進到裡面去看那但是呢就是說法庭公開跟要直播這是完全不同的那個事情就是這些影像是立刻會無遠弗屆那個出去的對於所有參與訴訟的這個人包括被告不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1082.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1107.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
不是只有公務員 包括所有進到法庭去的這些被告證人 鑑定人 事實上他們的隱私權還有他們那個人格權 那個保護都必須要非常審慎的去評估所以不密 那為什麼美國 歐美他們為什麼都在直播那個跟委員報告 這部分司法院有做過其實大部分的那個先進國家都是那個反對 而且立法也規定說不能夠法庭直播 像德國 法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1108.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1112.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
日本有規定可以但是他們實務上從來都不做那歐陸國家幾乎整排通通都是五行做的美國有聯邦跟各邦聯邦法院也幾乎通通都是不能夠做只有開放各邦那如果真的要談的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1126.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1151.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
美國他事實上他只有很少那個案件是進入到那個陪審團去大部分更不進入訴訟的所以說他們幫的那個考量他會有其他那個特殊的考量那跟我們就是這種職業法系的那個國家考量完全是不一樣的而且要法庭直播事實上是增加當事人的負擔因為你影音出去的時候那個在現代那個影音時代你去就是如果當事人希望直播呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1152.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1166.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
你為什麼幫當事人決定說他不要直播呢第二個我剛講過了吧那當初為什麼蔡英文的司法國事會議他要這樣定那時候是產官學所有人都在包括你們司法院的代表但是包括我們這個議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1168.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1194.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
可以看一下那個當時的那個輿論其實大部分都是反對那司法院除了做那個就是委託案學者那個委託案之外我們也做過了好幾次的那個就是公聽會也有做過那個學術研討會就是焦點團體的學術研討會大部分的幾乎通通都是反對的怎麼你聽到聲音跟社會的大眾都是不一樣的我們還特別去做民調我們說我們做的是焦點團體的我們還特別去做民調你來來來我聽不聽得懂知不知詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1198.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1207.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
針對特定的重大社會矚目案件進行法庭的公開直播支持度多少 你知道嗎7乘5耶 不支持只有19.5耶差四百耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1212.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1228.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
今天我們在那個議場的時候法官協會剛剛也發了一份聲明他們也是對於這個非常質疑的對於法庭直播非常質疑所以這件事情真的必須要非常審慎的評估因為一旦開放之後就沒有辦法回頭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1229.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1257.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
各種聲音都有啦 那我剛剛跟你講了我沿用的第一個是我們做過民調第二個 之前蔡政府提出來的司法改革會議的結論要你們提版本嘛然後後來國民黨跟民進黨各黨的連時代力量立法院都有提案喔都有提啊那全世界也有一些先進國家都有做啊那現在老蔣沒有錯 我剛剛講的一個更嚴重的這對目前來講就是因為司法不受到信任你讓陽光射進來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1259.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1281.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
讓一些重大的案子讓人民可以看得到嘛不是老闆讓人民來有一個公開透明的過程嘛現在目前一些重要的案子現在法庭公開大家都已經可以去旁聽了絕大部分都進不去吧對不對你有看到柯文哲每次開庭前一天的晚前一天大概下午就一堆人在那邊排隊根本都進不去啊你們是不是這樣你們北院每次只要柯文哲 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1289.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1297.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
明天還要開庭 你今天下午去看下午就有人在那邊排了就是一路人進不去嘛連我們立法委人家進去旁聽都聽不了啊讓全民可以公開透明讓陽光射進我們的法庭 謝謝 |