| IVOD_ID |
161550 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161550 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T11:09:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T11:21:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f01fe9965f1f633d6e98327315c1c974550be1aa9793fcacddf9bbaa56767decb95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:09:57 - 11:21:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議，外交部主管預算凍結案等48案。（詳如附件）） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長我們都希望我們在外交的工作上一方面不用看輕自己也不用疑神疑鬼當然也不能粉飾太平 不能憂慘畏饑所以本席今天我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.626 |
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想請外交部我們一起來討論一個問題就是說在中國跟拉美的共同體論壇我們兩個邦交國一個聖路西亞一個海地他們的官方人員有出席我有看到你們的回應說他們的政府說那是代表政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.472 |
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我不曉得外交部怎麼看待這兩個國家出席中國拉美論壇你們怎麼定義它是一個警訊呢還是一個什麼樣的指標你們怎麼定義它 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.157 |
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跟委員報告 因為這次中拉的論壇是已經辦理過所以這一次我們都有在預防 那也跟很多友邦溝通至於說海地跟深入下都有特殊的狀況 那也都有跟我們說明所以我們當然還是希望說他們能夠不出席 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.115 |
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105.954 |
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出席他們也保證不會涉及跟台灣邦交的傷害當然他們回來之後也跟我們在進一步有報告我還是問一下我們國家外交部對這個看法是認為OK一切在可控範圍內所以還好不用擔心還是把它視為一個警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.575 |
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129.984 |
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這些都是我們必須注意的警訊但是呢我們也在可控的範圍內事前事後都做妥善的因應這個CELAC這個拉美跟加勒比海國家聯盟然後中國透過跟這個聯盟的33個國家組了一個叫做中國與拉美的論壇那這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
132.705 |
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158.964 |
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論壇呢在目前為止大概部長級會議辦了四屆嘛對不對是第一屆是2015第二屆是2018第三屆後來因為COVID延後了到20212018到2021之間還有視訊的部長級會議再來就是這一次的2025年5月13號這一次的部長級會議我請問部長前面三次聖露西亞跟海地他們有沒有官員與會 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.142 |
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前面三次有沒有沒有好跟以前他自己比沒有這一次2025年的5月13號我們在那個區域的四個邦交國瓜地馬拉貝里斯海地還有聖露西亞另外那兩國有沒有派員參加沒有那為什麼就這兩國 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.267 |
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197.269 |
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海地的情形當然他們的說明是從2月開始其實我們就交涉了因為就已經知道要在北京辦我們也有去溝通希望他能夠不派代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
198.03 |
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214.284 |
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不過基於海地它現在因為是臨時政府有一些未來的維和工作也需要聯合國包括中國你們認為聖露西亞跟海地派去的人員是官方代表還是非官方代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
215.233 |
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239.306 |
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以海地來講他是這個外交部長所以他這一定的程度是有代表性不過他們的說明是他們是以拉共體作為整體這個決定沒有啊以拉共體來講他前三次沒去啊以拉共體來講貝里斯沒去啊瓜地馬拉沒去啊如果你們認為是去沒關係我可控那下一次瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯為什麼不去 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.492 |
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268.804 |
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因為海地的情形現在在國際的他現在臨時政府也不能做出決定啦所以我們有很多當然有因應的方案在避免意外發生那所以這個是我要提醒外交部就是說那個區域是我們非常重要的坦白講叫外交戰場也是美國從Rubio這些佛羅里達邦進入國務院之後很重視的區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
291.31 |
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每一件事情都有它的意義如果我們認為這個區有跟我們講過了然後這兩個國家說他們是代表民間那就沒關係了我給你保證很快就有第五屆部長級會議很快那個區域我們的邦交活動會參加否則不公平啊你對那兩國絕對沒關係啊所以我們怎麼因應怎麼處理你事前勸導了應該有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.587 |
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312.183 |
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事前應該有勸止啦那他還是不聽執意要去外交部長去代表國家欸另外一個講什麼政黨啦這個民間人士他根本就是聖露西亞的無任所大使是聖露西亞聘任的無任所大使外交人員然後這一個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
338.404 |
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中國與拉美論壇的部長級會議是中國2014年開始跟所謂的拉美加勒比海這些國家這個聯盟所組成的一個叫做建制化的合作關係他論壇之後還有後續追蹤事項以及後續合作事項美國對這個事情有沒有看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.264 |
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372.62 |
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因為海地他現在的情形就是臨時政府所以不能夠對外交做出什麼決定那我們當然二月之七之後也跟他不斷的溝通那在他的這個保證事後來看也沒有就是說跟他先前跟我們表達的我可不可以建議Pending一些跟他們談妥的合作事項我覺得外交我們會通盤來做考量我在國會部門我可以建議當然我不建議部長直接隨著我話講 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.64 |
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本席建議對聖露西亞或海地我們有一些合作的援助的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.046 |
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我跟你們報告 包括最近我們以三省來講包括美國 包括他們的總理到華埔那當然這個是多邊的關係的運用我們必須加強跟這些國家的關係不一定是用檢法啦那怎麼樣借助美國 也關注拉美特別是盧比歐國務卿從美國通過台北法案以後美國在跟台灣 在我們現有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不管是邦交關係或者非邦交關係他會用他們的外交工具來跟台灣一起合作這個我們知道也一段時間了有時候好一點有時候少一點那個部分我們都知道我現在意思是說在這個區域有四個國家現在有兩個國家呢也可以講說無視於跟我們的默契或無視於台灣美國跟這個區域我們有相關的默契他去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
453.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
如果他去了你還可以給他加罰的話等於是鼓勵壞同學懲罰好同學所以我們國會可以當黑臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
對於這樣的國家我剛剛委員會的意思我並不是說加法我是說是不是要去針對某一些項目怎麼樣減法我們還要再通盤的來研議你們從去年因為今年一二月就開始類似專案在處理這個事情在monitor這個情形了海地的部分持續很密切的關注你們關注到它真的五月份發生了那應該也有預判發生之後我應該採取什麼樣的因應處理嗎你們現在有沒有方案有 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我私底下如果因為有涉及到有一些機密我們跟海地關係的加強不用全部都在這邊公開揭露但是你們應該已經預先想好scenario one我應該採取什麼方案第二種狀況我要什麼方案應該要有那我們對拉美跟加勒比海區域有沒有其他的外交突破點或新的亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
532.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
當然我們都有在就是推動中因為是讓美國對西半球的重視包括我們在這些國家有一些外交的成果也有一定的這個示範效果我講具體一點啦比如某個國家蝦農嘿嘿嘿40%失業被中國騙了一天到晚那邊說希望跟台灣來談OK |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
539.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
當然你重力旺益台灣又不是潘娜但是有很多外交機會出現的時候我們該怎麼樣建構對我們國家利益最有幫助的舞台或者局面 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我真的希望我們國外交委員會兩位召委可以排專門就那個區域的局勢可以談一談當美國跟薩爾瓦多談把他們一些犯人移到那裡Rubio跑到那裡去了當拉美、加勒比海有一些外交的三角形的變化的時候台灣在那裡有沒有能夠更進一步的這個我是建議部長可以處理那另外呢因為今天時間關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們現在日經亞洲報導說外國駐台的人員創新高就外交部目前統計起來有哪些國家新派外交人員新派我想美日英等國確實都增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
派出的人員嘛那增派的外交人員的項目是哪?比方說是經貿類的或者國安類的或者軍事類的他增加的外交人員有沒有哪個範圍比較大? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
640.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
應該都有 當然對於因為台灣現在跟國際的交流有很多實質上包括中共對台的這一些混合戰 灰色地帶的侵擾還有各種的假訊息 資安這些都是新興的項目另外當然經貿我們包括在科技尤其是跟半導體相關的產業就我目前能夠看到的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
641.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不管是英國日本澳洲跟德國他們增加在台灣的駐台灣的外交人員多數都跟區域安全或戰略事務有關嘛這是一部分應該多數是我第一個請外交部整理一份你用機密的我沒有意見整理一份駐台的外交人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
665.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
各國各地區他增加的人員是增加哪一類的多少人員新增了當然代表台灣越來越重要各國派更多的駐地人員來到台灣這當然是好事但我們也要了解他派了哪個類別如果派的都是經濟事務的那讓在經濟事務上 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他可能有一些想法要跟我們談他有的都是戰略安全事務上的可能在這方面有些事務要談那我們的對口單位應該要整合國內相關部會跟來進行對話這個資料可不可以整理一份給本席好其他部分我就不佔太多時間了我請特別注意聖露西亞跟海地的事情可能怎麼處理會影響後續我希望如果在公開不變的話私下能夠提供相關資訊給我們好 謝謝部長 |