| IVOD_ID |
161538 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161538 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T10:16:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T10:31:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f021bc69d62af46d9c239b9191e0d12eeacb2fe453f4508dd4256103802437d2e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:16:45 - 10:31:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.pyannote[235].end |
857.09534375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
12.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
17.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席我們先請NCC,還有中華電信好,這個我剛才聽這些前面這些委員,這些質詢大家就針對這個簡訊發送的問題大概有詢問我們國家這個通傳會跟這個中華電信 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
37.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
62.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那我先大概來釐清一下,因為我有一些部分我想需要釐清第一個就是說,現在我們所收到這些簡訊,不管你是商業廣告也好,或者是這些政治簡訊也好它都是透過這個簡訊代發業者,簡訊代發業者來跟我們各大電信公司來下單的一個商業行為嘛,對不對?現在是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
83.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
是兩種 有個人推個人 像我們一般民眾個人我們所稱P2P Person to Person 那就不會那商業的都Business to Customer就會經過那這個像現在大家這樣子大量收到的這種齁這種這個政治性簡訊或是這些商業廣告簡訊我這樣子看 我現在要釐清的就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
115.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個所發送的門號我這樣聽起來好像有兩種方式一種是我簡訊代發業者我提供門號給你說請你幫我發這些是不是這樣子然後另外一種是我說我要哪一個區域因為你們有提供靜態跟動態的這個服務那這個簡訊代發服務有一種叫做靜態定位發訊以及即時動態發訊是你們有提供的服務對不對那我簡訊業者提說我希望鎖定中山大同 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
115.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
132.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
中山區跟大同區的這個發放然後之後由你們透過這個LBS的技術來發放對不對是不是這樣根本報告技術上確實有LBS但是在個案上經過我們行政調查三家都沒有提供的LBS服務所以沒有提供LBS服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
只有這個個案也沒有但是像我們地震等等之類的它區域型的它也是另類廣義的區域簡訊服務這種區域簡訊服務我們現在中華電信要不要講一下你們現在有沒有提供這個區域區域簡訊服務有沒有我們在區域簡訊的服務目前大概都是在比如說百貨公司或者是活動的人潮書上因為剛才我們主席吳宗憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席在這邊問的就是這個啊你們現在到底有沒有提供區域簡訊服務區域簡訊服務是有提供有提供嘛LBS有提供所以這個業者所以我簡訊代發業者可以說我現在希望我鎖定松山區的門號請你們幫我發可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我先跟委員補充一下 那個所謂的下單 事實上我們在三位簡訊的部分就網路有簡訊廣播跟簡訊特碼兩個機制那我們跟簡訊代理商那邊對 但這個就是一個契約嘛這個就是一個契約行為 不管你是透過網路還是透過什麼當然不是說坐下來簽個契約才叫契約嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對 然後他前端的這一個科委託他去簡單講你們有沒有提供區域有沒有提供區域簡訊服務啦我們有提供區域簡訊服務那你們提供區域簡訊服務之後會不會把這些門號再回報給業者說我傳了這些不會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這些我業者我只知道說我今天希望你們傳給松山區但是你們傳給誰我業者不知道對不對區域檢訊服務的部分區域檢訊服務我不會回拿到說你們傳了哪一些我就可以知道哪一些門號是松山區的不會嘛對不對也跟委員補充報告要提供LBS服務必須要用戶自己同意同意電信公司提供那各自的提供第三方的目的外使用要用戶自己同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以現在即使你們有提供這種區域簡訊的服務但是事實上這個發送要來跟你們希望你們發送的這個人他並不會知道得到這些訊息說哪一些門號是在這個區域裡面他可以得到這個訊息你們會回報給他說我傳了這些門號 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
281.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
會嗎?我們今天調查的結果是不會,那個報導是他的描述,事實我們調查的結果不是這樣子的不是這樣嗎?所以剛剛講的那些說什麼透過這些發放之後他就可以掌握了你今天有沒有去這個百貨公司,你今天有沒有去哪裡事實上這個發放者沒有辦法掌握,他根本不知道發給誰對不對他只知道發給這個區域的人,是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
各位報的是我們不會交付任何資料再給業者是這樣就釐清啦就釐清不要好像就剛剛講的好像哇這些業者這些他發了這些大團發了之後他就可以知道哪一些人在哪裡活動哪一些人去哪裡事實上他得這個發送者得不到這個訊息啦而且更何況齁這個根據這個這個我們目前的電信管理法第八條的規定齁你們中華電信是不得拒絕發不得拒絕傳送訊息的捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
根據第八條我今天只要這個是保障通信秘密無正當理由你們就不得拒絕發送傳遞訊息對不對是的沒錯所以吳宗憲要求你們不能發送這個訊息這樣看起來目前按照這個電信管理法第八條目前是不是屬於無正當理由我們還要再來討論對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
369.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好來 你有講什麼話我等一下會秀給你看會秀給你看 時間給我退回去我沒有講那句話你不要亂講話 你在這邊怎麼亂引用我講的時間給我退回去 可以嗎主席沒問題 那個時間先把它中斷15秒沒有我跟你講 我們彼此互相尊重不要講我沒講過的話我知道 我也是很尊重你 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
370.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們彼此尊重你可以質疑我講但你不要引用我沒講的話我沒有要叫他們不要傳簡訊啦我剛剛哪有講這句話你在我面前講我沒講過的話你剛剛說傳送這些訊息現在進來很多霸團在傳送這些訊息會讓大家掌握這些個資但我沒有講說叫他們不要傳送你不可以在我面前說我沒講的話簡單講這些團體發送者他掌握不到這些個資的個資還是在你們手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
399.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
417.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們電信業者的手上,並不在這些發送人的手上再來,我們現在齁好,好,主席,你就不要再跟我吵架了來,好,我等一下會講你講過的來,稍安勿躁,稍安勿躁,來好,那這個齁,我們這個依照這個各自保護法齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
425.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
449.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有關第十九條第一項跟第二十條第一項它分別有規範有關於非公務機關對於個人資料的這個收集跟處理十九條第一項是收集跟處理第二十條是有關這些個資的利用都有規定並且有罰則對不對罰則在第四十一條都有罰則對不對那個是沒錯是齁對那我們剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
453.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也有這個簡訊帶售業者我提供門號給你請你們傳這個簡訊這些簡訊帶售業者他們所收集處理利用的這些個資有沒有違反這兩條 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
468.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
496.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們調查個案他是接受他的企業客戶的下單來處理所以他他這個規定來到法律明文這幾篇洋洋灑灑都有八款有八款有九款的規定不管是他自己或者他的企業客戶如果有違反他要負這個法律責任對對對好所以如果啦假設假設有這個這個有這個簡訊代發業者他違反了這個那你們一定會追究他的責任對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
497.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
509.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
會由相關主管機關來追究他的責任接下來下一頁主席這是你講過的主席要不要認證一下,時間暫停讓主席認證一下,這個是你講過的吳宗憲接著指出,雖然電信業者說這是供企業商務服務使用但是什麼時候變成政治連署使用,要不要處罰NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
524.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
539.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個NCC也不見了他覺得任何事情都雙標民眾各自被拿去使用這是你說的這我講的沒有錯但是我必須在這邊講一個點我們今天對於公家機關的質詢人民對公家機關有意見我們來這邊質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
541.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
561.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
結果有的人是來這裡趕快幫公家機關護航立法委員是質疑他們的點 讓他們來告訴國人哪一些東西對 哪一些東西要被懷疑 哪一些東西大家要注意不是在這裡 像你 沒關係啦對 這是我講的 但是我有我的質疑點 我盡到我立法委員的義務主席你至少要補一分鐘 至少要補一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
566.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
588.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
發會委員 補兩分鐘給他我說我有講過的話歡迎批評我沒有講過的話好啦 主席你要補兩分鐘給他講了我沒講的話補兩分鐘給他那我如果這樣對你你們會我現在好我現在問你這個事主席我還讓你再確認一下是不是你講過的話嘛對不對好來下一頁好請繼續下一頁我吼我因為答到今天的題目吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
590 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
617.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們也拿不到個資我們也收集不到什麼所以我就把我們的助理全部集合啦齁大家把那個簡訊齁自己收過的政治簡訊大家回溯一直看看看這個都是我助理我自己跟我的助理以前在自己現在還在手機裡面收過的這些政治性簡訊啦齁這個給大家看一下有關罷免的部分就是今天我們主席排這個主題的齁這是2016年這個蔡正元的罷免案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
618.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
631.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
蔡正元所發的轉發通知請共同拒絕2月14日的罷免來再來等一下等一下我先我在說明這個之前我先跟大家報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
633.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
655.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
有關於宣傳罷免到底是合法還是不合法這個其實非常清楚,因為在2016年的時候對不起,現在請法務部上來好了這個是法務部選罷法應該是內政部,中選會今天有來嗎中選會,中選會,對不起,部長不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
663.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
689.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們在2016年11月29立法院刪除通過了選罷法第86條第三項本來有規定說除了徵求連署之必要活動之外不得有其他鼓吹罷免或阻止罷免的宣傳活動這一條是不是刪除了現在是可以宣傳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
支持或反對罷免案都可以宣傳不管你宣傳罷免鼓勵罷免他過去是用鼓動鼓動罷免或者是這個宣傳阻止罷免的宣傳活動都是合法的嘛對不對都是合法跟選舉活動一樣是合法的對不對從事支持或反對罷免案的宣傳宣傳都跟選舉的宣傳一樣都是合法的對不對法律允許的對好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
716.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
742.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 所以我現在我來講這個我沒有講說這個到底是不是合法的齁這個就是我們今天主席排這個案子就是因為他認為這些有疑慮所以我來看看有疑慮的來 下一個這個是王浩宇罷免案的時候這個滷蛋快報這個滷蛋快報的滷蛋是誰齁這個這個這個大家看來這個明天1月16號罷王任務懇請大家站出來投票好 下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
744.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
772.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
來有關選舉的選舉罷免的這個是中國國民黨台北市黨部發的總統選舉請集中支持3號侯康佩政黨票投9號中國國民黨立法委員打打打張世剛游殊惠打打打來下一個來各位好朋友這蔣萬安發的台北市長蔣萬安親自發的政治性簡訊各位好友侯友宜台北市團結造勢大會定於11月6日4號下午2點半在台北市政府警區歡迎參加來下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
774.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
796.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
來這是我們本院同仁齁這個週六上午十點大安立委候選人的總副主席歡迎共襄盛舉這羅志強的來下一個來各位好朋友明天就是投票日請您一定要來這也是我們的同仁齁洪孟凱的來下一個來感謝您的支持讓習青台北市議會議長齁帶習青讓習青能夠連任第五屆議員的這個是不是商業的還是政治性的來下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
798.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
825.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
告急這個新北市議員選情告急 明天投票懇請相親來 下一個來 這個這個台北市議員向您告急這個是政治性選舉還是商業簡訊 下一個齊獨市市議員問政品質服務 懇請支持我念不完啦 我念不完 各位啊 這個是什麼這個不是雙標 什麼是雙標現在合法的 我剛剛講 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
827.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
831.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個選罷法已經修改了現在宣傳罷免鼓吹罷免是合法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
832.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
848.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那發這個合法的簡訊跟這個政治的簡訊過去發了這麼多都沒問題今天不過說一個合法的宣傳罷免就拿來這裡辦專案會議然後來含沙射影說好像這個罷免這個是違法的為什麼不辦為什麼不辦要辦剛剛我說所列出來全部一起辦好不好以上 |