| IVOD_ID |
161395 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161395 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T15:23:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T15:32:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b5bf14393470eb3e4a35373469a84e2c3c28df25a7d39ced12cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:23:48 - 15:32:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：
一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案。
三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案。
四、本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
五、本院委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
（第一案如未獲議事處來函則不予審查，第二至第五案業經各黨團簽署不復議同意書。）（詢答）
【5月14日及5月15日二天一次會】） |
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| gazette.lineno |
1851 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
葉委員元之：（15時24分）麻煩請主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
葉委員元之：主計長好。我先跟你確認幾個數字，因為你在回答別的委員的詢答時，提到如果沒有撥這1,000億給台電的話，是一戶一年的電費會漲7,500塊，還是一個人一年平均要多花費7,500塊？是一戶，還是一個人？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：一戶。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
葉委員元之：一戶7,500塊？但我看到你在答詢的時候說，這7,500塊再加上一個人假設因為物價的關係，一年要增加3,600塊的支出，就超過1萬塊，所以得不償失！你有這樣講過嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
葉委員元之：主計長，你怎麼會拿人當單位加上戶當單位，然後去跟人當單位來比較，這不是很奇怪嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：所以這個部分，兩個是有一點誤差…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
葉委員元之：不是啦，這是你講的話嘛！這是你講的話嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是，我修正。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
葉委員元之：如果我們今天平均一戶是2.5個人來講的話，一年假設7,500塊，一個人是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：每戶每月是625。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
葉委員元之：每戶嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
葉委員元之：一戶平均多少人？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：那不一定。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
葉委員元之：我說全臺灣一戶平均多少人嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：差不多2.5到…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
葉委員元之：一個人一年會增加多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：如果是這樣的話，差不多是…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
葉委員元之：是3,000嘛，所以應該是3,000加3,600。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
葉委員元之：那就是6,600，怎麼會超過1萬塊？官員今天在這邊回答問題的時候，可以把不同的單位湊在一起，這樣欺騙大家嗎？如果硬要講的話，一人拿1萬塊跟你這個1,000億比較起來的影響，當然還是比較多啊！更何況這兩個也不盡然是完全衝突啊！因為本來大家說要一人發1萬塊，就不是用台電這1,000億去給的嘛！這兩個沒有衝突嘛！當初講的是超收稅的部分，加上我們去年的總預算也有節省了大概兩千多億，所以有足夠的錢可以發這1萬塊，跟台電要不要補這1,000億是無關的。大家為什麼會對補貼台電這1,000億有歧見？就是因為台電老是虧本嘛！虧本了，又不去調整能源配比，喜歡用比較貴的發電方式，然後一直要人民補貼，就變成一個無底洞，大家才會有意見！所以第一個如果考慮一個人發1萬塊，希望主計長不要用這種方式來回答，你可以仔細去思考，到底能不能在我們財政允許的情況下，一人發1萬，畢竟現在很多人因為川普的關稅政策，真的都有受影響。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][1] |
第二個、我想請教經濟部次長，今天這個4,100億的特別預算裡面跟經濟部有關的是750…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
何次長晉滄：460億。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
葉委員元之：多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
何次長晉滄：460億。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
葉委員元之：跟經濟部有關是460億，跟產業有關是多少？是750億？總共930億，其中180億是農業嘛，剩下是七百多？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
何次長晉滄：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
葉委員元之：我想問一下次長，你們當初在評估這個，比如產業部分把農業算進來，就是930億，當初是怎麼估出來的？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，當初是因為第一時間，面對川普總統給臺灣課徵了32%的高關稅，所以我們這個決定，當初是用880億…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
葉委員元之：對，那880億是怎麼估出來的？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
何次長晉滄：880億就是受到這個衝擊…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
葉委員元之：怎麼估的嘛？你們總是有一個估的基準吧！我記得之前好像有哪個官員講過，假設最後可以把川普的關稅談到10%，是用這個為基準來判斷的，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
何次長晉滄：其實我們大概有幾個情境，10%、20%、30%，甚至到35%…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
葉委員元之：原本的880億是幾%？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
何次長晉滄：880億是32%。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
葉委員元之：是用32%估出來的？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
何次長晉滄：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
葉委員元之：我想問一下，你們當初在用32%的關稅估880的時候，有沒有把匯率匯損的因素考慮進去？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
何次長晉滄：當初並沒有考慮。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
葉委員元之：並沒有嘛！所以這也是一個問題，像機械公會就說了，他們很多出口的機械，是用去年第四季跟今年第一季來報價，那時候新臺幣兌美元的匯率是32.5，假設現在來到29甚至30的話，他的匯損就很高，相當於10%，他就虧損了10%，這個部分並沒有被估進去嘛！我不知道經濟部跟央行，還是行政院，有沒有這樣一個小組，就是現在面臨到這個問題，機械公會就呼籲政府，如果我們的匯率升破27塊，機械業恐怕會倒一半以上。經濟部對此可有在思考怎麼對產業提出協助？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
何次長晉滄：對產業的協助，我們有很多不同的面向…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
葉委員元之：我是說預算部分，因為你剛剛講到你們現在評估的那個預算，並沒有把匯率損失的部分評估進去。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，產業可以直接使用政府相關資源的部分，包括可能他在營運周轉金上面需要…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
葉委員元之：我知道，當初你把這些都全部估進去了，但是你並沒有考慮到匯損因素嘛！所以我的意思是，假設把匯損因素考慮進來，你是不是又要增加預算，還是用什麼其他的方式？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
何次長晉滄：我想我們會在相關的輔導資源上面去做一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
葉委員元之：所以就不用錢了，跟預算無關，而是直接用輔導？也就是，匯損的損失就不用錢處理，就是用輔導的？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
何次長晉滄：因為我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
葉委員元之：最後再跟你請教，我看到一則媒體報導還滿緊張的──行政院秘書長龔明鑫說，希望臺美能夠簽一個免課稅協定，他希望能夠促成美國再次偉大；然後美國的財政部長貝森特說：哇！臺灣提了一個非常好的提案，站在他的角度是非常好的提案。然後我們的行政院秘書長又說我們要促成美國再次偉大！其實我們臺灣人關心的，應該是讓臺灣再次受利，希望美國對我們有一個好的提案嘛！為什麼我們的官員講出來的話，好像都是美國的官員講出來的一樣？這是怎麼回事啊？臺美在談判的時候，到底會不會站在臺灣的立場？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
何次長晉滄：是，絕對會站在臺灣立場！ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
葉委員元之：怎麼會讓美國人覺得：哇！真的是對我們美國太好了，會讓我們再次偉大？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，事實上臺美之間的產業是互補的啦！所以，龔秘書長講這句話，最主要是說未來如果美國真的經濟好起來，當然臺灣就會受惠，我們的供應鏈，我們的這些產業當然就會有很多的…… |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
葉委員元之：次長，我希望是這樣啦！只是連我們官員講話的方式，都是站在美國那邊，美國再次偉大為什麼會從我們行政院秘書長口中把它講出來？行政院秘書長應該是說，我們透過臺美談判，讓臺灣得到利益，讓臺灣再次偉大嘛！怎麼會是我們透過談判，讓美國再次偉大？我覺得這個官員講話的立場就很奇怪！希望我們在談判的時候一定要記得，我記得蕭美琴副總統以前當立委的時候，也講外交的目的是希望讓臺灣更好，就是要維持到這個原則！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
何次長晉滄：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
葉委員元之：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
主席：謝謝。現在請王美惠委員質詢，王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][1] |
現在請吳思瑤委員質詢，吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][2] |
現在請王正旭委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
154 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
41 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144901_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查：一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案；三、
本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案；四、本院委
員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；五、本院
委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144901_00002 |