| IVOD_ID |
161340 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161340 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T11:05:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T11:18:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b60dc97ace1bb5867fe24093ee94bb685ab8e08a4c8c9179243ba2ecc2b3ce5ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:05:31 - 11:18:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、勞動部及教育部就「我國推動綠色轉型政策，相關人才培育發展與產業政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、勞動部、經濟部、農業部及教育部就「全氟及多氟烷基物質(PFAS)管理行動計畫及環境荷爾蒙管理計畫之毒化物相關管理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【5月14日及15日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
0.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
林委員好部長你今天的這個PFAS管理這個行動計畫和環境荷爾蒙的管理計畫我想大概我都問過了那我也要求了那你今天應該是很開心 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
33.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
就我個人所質詢過的我也要來肯定你今天是等於是做球給你我不敢不敢因為我記得我5月21號來委員質詢我這個花了半個小時那完了之後我就很努力的跟我同仁在談那我們也努力想要做出一些成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
53.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
76.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
做出成績是最重要我們質詢的目的不是為了上報 列為紀錄質詢的目的是為了改變 是那在這裡我必須要肯定你的改變譬如說在今年的5月13號你們公告修正了列管毒性化學物質及運作管理事項公告抱歉我是不是看錯了沒有 沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
92.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
Anyway 就是說把擴大更多的列管進去然後在飲用水上面呢你們也訂出了水污染防治措施及檢測申報管理辦法在排放水的時候要監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
97.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
101.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
然後在廢水的部分有監測在飲用水上面也有一些本來就有的納管然後再做更多的監測在環境監測上面你們去年年底就已經完成了國內15條河流底泥和雨體的你的採樣分析然後完成了淨水場的檢測然後掌握了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
117.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
133.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
土壤和地下水PFAS的濃度的趨勢這個都是我當初要求的但是呢 我的意思是說我們要的就是說具體的改變在那裡不要像食藥署 食藥署今天報告在哪裡食藥署 署長又不能夠來 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
137.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
157.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
署長你講這個笑死人了 你聽聽看你自己怎麼聽下去人家質詢完是要你做改變 然後你的法規要改 要納管然後你今天有委員質詢你說 欸你訂出標準了嗎你的食品容器訂出標準了嗎 你說我繼續研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
159.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
175.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
口頭上你這樣講然後你的書面報告說什麼各環境部公告禁用的百項的PFAS物質本部會宣導會宣導食品包裝容器的這個容具的業者不得使用宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
179.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
191.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
報告委員 這邊喔 環境部公告508項不能用其實就是禁止使用我們在按照食安法使用的話我們會按照財閥物的部分是你的部分我也質詢過啦就衛福部我們也質詢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
195.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
214.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
食品包裝包材禁止使用PFAS的期程規劃在哪裡PFAS的食品風險評估在哪裡在食品的監測計畫裡面食品受到這些污染或是因為包裝包材受到污染那你的監測計畫是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
217.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
225.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你不可以說PFAS是我的專業我會全力以赴然後你到立法院來我諮詢過囉你們業務單位都知道喔到立法院來說我們會宣導你到這裡來只有剩下宣導一種功能喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
233.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
238.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你的政府做到最後只叫做宣導你覺得這什麼政府 這什麼食藥署署長你的專業 你的專業又如何當你的專業不能成為政策不能成為法規 不做任何的改革你的專業不好 不好署長 你的專業是要來服務人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
255.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
280.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在是在這裡我有同樣的諮詢過兩個部門諮詢完人家部長他們該改的法規該納管的物質該訂的期程該做的監測人家在報告裡面寫我幾年幾月幾日我做了什麼我改了什麼法規你今天你實要屬你的報告書面報告在這裡你只說了一句本部會繼續宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
283.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
312.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
宣導其他講的都是廢話這立委也會講的廢話這個叫政府喔謝委員我們508項因為昨天環境部這邊特別有公告357項所有的508項在食物包裁的部分我們全面禁止使用如果使用就是違反食安法的第16條我們現在要問你你們食品包裁禁止使用你公告在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
315.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
321.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
毒性化學物質以外那現在已經在使用的在怎麼樣你有去抽測有去檢測有去監測那些業者都知道嗎我們便當盒你有抽測過他們是不是還在用你知道嗎每天買的早餐炸薯條炸薯餅當初我們質詢的時候就跟你講連大的麥當勞連其他的通通都不標準都還繼續在用你說你禁用他們還繼續在用 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
365.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
謝謝委員這邊的提醒我們其實今年度我們特別針對食品跟食品器材的包裝容器的部分我們做了PFOS的相關調查那涉事風險評估我們一定會調查盡速的把這項我現在要問你你什麼時候告訴我們說你公告禁止使用公告在哪裡你把幾年幾月幾日公告什麼法規你唸給我聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
367.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
387.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這邊跟委員報告我們就帶回去我們積極的研議啊 謝謝還在研議喔一定會積極辦理研議你沒有公告全部禁止使用啦在這裡還可以直接睜眼瞎說然後有公告禁止使用的有沒有用不知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
389.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
404.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
環境污染 間接進入身體食品包材 包裝 直接吃下肚哪個比較嚴重當然是衛福部 當然是食藥署管理的是重中之重而委員 我 至少我本人也質詢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
406.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
413.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
沒好啊 質詢過又如何 沒好所以今天在這裡檢驗一個行政部門我是拿環境部來給你看人家的書面報告是怎麼寫你的書面報告是怎麼寫一看就知道不當一回事好 謝謝 署長請回我現在要再問 再問部長另外一個問題合一合二合三 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
431.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
444.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
部長你今天有接受採訪合一合二合三昨天修法了要重啟可以重啟重啟要不要做環評我再給你一個回答的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
446.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
467.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為過去其實按照環評法的開發行為實施環境影響評估的細目跟認定標準29條第一項所以目前來說的話如果是新建添加機組工程或是核子反應設施的廚藝要環評但是目前的這個規定的話既有的核能電廠運轉執照換發或展延它其實是不需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
470.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
487.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你不知道既有執照到期換發或轉延這個在最高行政法院判決過這個當然是需要這個不是就權力的延伸因為他這一張執照就是40年40年以後你還要再繼續給他這個叫新權力的賦予 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
520.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
新權力的賦予當然要重啟還平更何況他過去40年一次都沒有做過所以你現在應該要做什麼你知道嗎如果根據最高行政法院的判決你應該要把重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
522.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
527.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
納入到開發行為應實施環境影響評估的細目及範圍的認定標準為什麼當初沒有做因為做夢也沒有想到有人會拿核電廠老舊不堪的核電廠還來開玩笑說可以重啟大家都做夢都沒想過你知道國際在評估一個核電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
549.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
563.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他的風險評估他用的是U型理論他最容易發生核災就是在剛開始的U的剛開始還有使用期限的後半段的最後最後中間運轉的中間是最穩定的所以不管山泥島福島車諾堡就是這個理論最危險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
573.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
603.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
而今天不是什麼抽完零件更新不是什麼保養就可以解決很多是沒有辦法再更新的而他們要開玩笑也沒關係他們要拿核災來開玩笑但你你不可以在這裡隨便說不用還平憑什麼說不用還平他的執照40年他的權利已經到齊了40年沒有做過任何還平 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
619.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
現在大家都以為要除役了他說要重啟重啟 我現在再跟你溝通一個概念再講一遍這個是新權力的賦予絕對不是舊權力的延伸 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
622.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這樣你聽得懂嗎?聽得懂在法理上是這樣子?對其實過去這一年我也跟我同仁探討這個問題我也的確覺得是蠻奇怪的因為以前沒有還平那如果重啟要還平既然是按照現有還平法規不用還平所以委員這個部分我想我回去之後再跟我同仁或是找一些律師專業的朋友這個爭執啊在我們修礦業法的時候就談過 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
650.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
671.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
修跨越法的時候就說我國家特許權給你20年20年重新審核你的之後到底是就權力直接延伸繼續核定只能允許只能繼續給你繼續延長還是說這是一個新權力的賦予我可以準博通通都可以不是只有准許一個選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
673.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
689.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
後來後來就是這樣子明定在新修的礦業法裡面這個在法理上的論辯很久絕對不是第一次所以我才告訴你是最高行政法院的判決就是這樣子寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
692.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
702.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以你們內部的人如果告訴你說這個是依法無據的免還品的那我要告訴你這是胡說八道的好 謝謝我會來進行這個探討研究給我一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
706.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
727.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我希望你今天的採訪回去應該要再想一下是不是應該重新再思考一下絕對不是就權力的延伸所以新權力的賦予所有一切都要重跑一遍如果要重啟的話那一定肯定是要還平的沒有那種不用還平的好 謝謝委員 謝謝這樣子幾分了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
733.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
746.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為我的質詢都還沒有開始因為我今天的質詢都還沒有開始他說我超過了那我下一次再來好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
752.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
770.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因為剛才那兩個問題很重要雖然不是我今天本來要質詢的目標因為今天的題目我已經都講過了問過了那部長也做了一些改進了也做了一些改革了所以我就提一下但是這個環評的事情核電廠老舊核電廠要重啟絕對需要環評好 謝謝委員 謝謝肯定本部長但是記者會要講 |