| IVOD_ID |
161333 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161333 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T10:39:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T10:53:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b20fc52f6ba8d0d89fe24093ee94bb6855433fb1cebf983d8844353fb8ddf334f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:39:53 - 10:53:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、勞動部及教育部就「我國推動綠色轉型政策，相關人才培育發展與產業政策規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、勞動部、經濟部、農業部及教育部就「全氟及多氟烷基物質(PFAS)管理行動計畫及環境荷爾蒙管理計畫之毒化物相關管理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【5月14日及15日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.569 |
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第28條好,謝謝趙偉好,我們請彭部長還有台電,台電有來喔?台電沒有,沒有台電好,蘇貞昭經濟部周副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
30.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
周副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
63.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
部長我跟海洋經濟部今天請教你們四件事情第一件事就是海上的大風車這個如火如荼我有一個朋友是在開那個船的船長我都認知啦不知道不對的話你幫我糾正路上的風車差不多有四百多隻現在兩百隻左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
路上大概200隻左右有幾隻壞掉?幾隻是好的?多少?我去專兵工業區,一大堆都壞掉了那是真的壞掉?請能源署回答那個海上的風機目前的狀況都有在持續運轉中都有在維修?我說200多機有幾機壞掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
96.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
陸域風機的話因為有些確實有風向還有持續運轉的部分在運轉的狀況我們可能需要再清點一下再給委員因為台電的人跟我講一支的成本一億多嘛一億多 差不多一億一到一億三對不對 應該差不多啦根據他的風機的大小好 他說一個颱風掃下去就差不多會有損壞二成十吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那修一支好幾千萬所以那個是很CP值很高的好啦 那這個海上的更誇張你知道一支多少錢嗎一支14億14億喔要採幾支 本來要採幾支本來要採幾千支喔有這麼多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我每次聽到這個都背脊發涼這傢俬那是溫室的,我們的傢俬那是溫室的德國人也來,美國人也來我跟你們講,一斤十四億,一千隻,天文數字啊那他的利息,他是貸款嘛那我們的行庫用低利貸給他嘛那他的投資報酬率一定是超過他的銀行貸款有利潤,他才繼續幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
183.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
207.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那現在聽說跑掉了,那跑掉是好事還是壞事?博定你說,你怎麼說?現在其實第一個是說,的確台灣有幾家他們也有來找我們環境部抱怨,抱怨了一些事情,當然因為當時的開發,不過這個是經濟部的工作,還是你們要回答? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
210.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
220.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我記得以前第一次簽約的一度電視好像五塊七啊多少嘛後來就降到五塊降到四塊多那降到四塊多你就不合啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
241.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
沒有他現在他要自己直接找買主自己找買主那這個耗損率應該很高現在有幾隻在做跟委員報告一樣現在大概379隻那我目前的裝置容量大概3G左右那到2025年大概是5點多G那初估應該是500到600隻不會到1000隻因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
271.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
裝置容量會隨著這個技術的精進它的容量單次的容量會越來越大所以這個支數呢會變比較小那再者跟委員報告這個我們剛好剛建好的這幾座風機都非常順利 三百多支對都非常順利的運轉中颱風來不怕目前經歷了幾次颱風跟地震都沒有問題而且是直接掃過去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
295.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為我不太記得,大概是前年去年都有這樣台風來的時候,他是把它關掉,還是自己會關?他超過一個風速,差不多中度台風等級,他就會鎖在那邊鎖住,保護他自己所以就不太容易被吹斷,這個一吹斷就完蛋了這個事情要修理啦,這一支修理,我看一支14億,修理我看要五六億 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
321.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是委員這邊跟您報告一下就是我們當初在推動離岸風電的時候其實針對台灣特殊的狀況就是颱風跟地震的部分我們有請標檢局特別製作了一個標準那就是在台灣設的風機都要符合這個標準才能設所以呢基本上我們的風機的規格其實比歐洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
再多延一點點然後再來就是這個業者的部分目前就是我們領選到的業者就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
離岸封建是先示範潛力然後再區塊嘛到目前為止都是潛力的長子的業者那目前的業者都很順利的在往前走那我們希望在這個預定潛力長子的時間都可以完成那我們也真的很順利在走那再稍稍的這個宣傳一下我們去年的風機累積的裝置量其實是全世界第五 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你講話聽到沒有?你講話聽到沒有?你講話聽到沒有?你講話聽到沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
靠近一點靠近一點好因為我看到的風機我到處都有去看漢堡 德國 北邊 北海內蒙古我們都去看了我們也是有在做功課的那個是風長穩定 緯度高沒有颱風地震也相對少的地方他們的風力發電的成本成本很低 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
都用不完那我們這邊東北季風台灣海峽又淺風又急然後颱風又多 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
404.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
422.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個採風機那麼貴 受得了嗎我一直到現在 還有這個很大大的疑問那你們的目標是500隻 1000隻還是到現在300多 增加到500多這樣很挺外商跑掉了 現在變成中鋼 台電自己在賣是做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
430.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們很驚訝,很害怕,害怕到排名二十,排到大家都... |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
434.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
跟委員報告就是我們潛力場直到明年之前的這個廠商基本上呢廠商都沒有跑掉而且都在進行中那我們台電的案場也在施工中目前台電有兩個案場第一個案場是示範案場他其實已經完工已經在運轉了那第二個案場是潛力場直目前在施工中那目標是今年會完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
465.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好,謝謝,第二個我要請問部長,我們現在連旗的農民,農民以前是用惡佛、惡力交換、惡佛勢力交換等等,那就是汙染,後來就改成現在的R124還是R125? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
485.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
504.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為二氧化合物以前是說它不會分解,然後它可以飄到大氣層,會把臭氧層都燒掉,打破洞對不對?佛力碳化物所以現在改成這個就沒問題了嗎?R14對R14還是R什麼?R134R14吧,多少?R14吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
533.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
沒有 浮氯碳化物來來來現在我們就是跟委員報告浮氯碳化物我們就是依照蒙特樓議定書管制然後他有現用逐步到禁用那他會用這個HFC來取代那我們也會依蒙特樓議定書的時程來管制好那再來今天要特別提那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
534.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
PFAS跟poly-fluoroalkyl substance這個在醫界是聽到都要嚇死的因為以前都疾病這個東西已經用一段時間了已經到處都摻這個東西那怎麼今年去年才開始又熱起來是什麼原因 柏定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
558.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
588.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是有人想要賺這條錢還是沒有這個其實在2008年就施德克某公約就有了啦2008年我們其實稍微慢一點點但是其實就很努力的去希望有管制所以去年我們就抱怨了提出一個管制的一個方案挂部會一個計畫啦所以的確是有管制公告來進行那管制因為這個東西好像施到人體裡面差不多一兩年會排泄嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
602.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那不容易排出那排泄之後在大環境中是不太容易分解嘛我經常去看我去培養的細菌,譬如益生菌或是乳酸菌我就把它分解可以分解塑膠,可以分解水,這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我在想應該有可能有一些硫化物的細菌它是可以分解無積物的喔所以這道都叫新生物學加下去不然的話這個是無解嘛那現在它是佛皆嘆嘛就是我們講的會產生這些毒物啊我們等一下吃便當那個便當裡面有一陣薄膜 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
650.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那個就是這種東東的,不然的話便當坐在那裡就燙了,那一定沒辦法給它解開那解開,你便當放在那裡,我們吃飽,我吃,劉建國早晚也吃,吃吃之後吞吞下去,那如果放久了,信使者跑到食物裡面更多,我也不知道,沒人去檢查,吃吃下去,會死就死,不會死就死 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
657.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以你這什麼是要安保物不是 根本報告 其實公約有禁用的物質像PFOA PFOA是那些它就不能用到這個食品保采區所以國內我們也都是按照這樣來講所以現在如果有的部分是是沒有禁用的物質放進去的但是因為PFS是一個很大的家族有些已經開始禁用了 有些還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
681.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我跟你講喔,我朋友在做晶片的,他們說這種東西,他佛器接,你看,接出來就是什麼咚咚的,我們那個手機上面一層薄膜那個是非常非常非常貴的,全世界四家工廠在做,台灣根本不會做,所以那種東西就是晶片在用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
731.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對不對 沒錯吧那那個有沒有毒性 那當然有啊所以這個科技的進步是很可怕的那我們環境部在跟著後面跑那歐盟講常常看到東西就訂了一大堆那我們就跟著走我們永遠都在跟著後面跑啦那科技界一直在發展我們這個也沒辦法所以你現在訂這個我們不可以贏我們現在每天都在吃在贏 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
750.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那有什麼辦法跟委員報告就是不能用的我們禁掉以後他就不會用進去那當然他會有替代產品像我們碳比如說九個碳八個碳慢慢管下來管到六嘛四個碳就還沒有列管因為他在這個危害的分析方面還 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
750.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
774.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那我們那個便當那個膜那個膜也不是都只做這個因為他還有其他的塑膠膜這些是可以在食品等級可以用的那部分是沒有問題啦但是對於我們已經禁用的話就不能再去用在這邊好那最後的問題最後是一個剛剛那個圖前期很多委員都問那個綠林綠林你現在春天這麼年輕啊那是要幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
777.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
783.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他很多工作,現在兩萬兩千個工作機會,等著大家去工作是要去輔導,還是要抓人?沒有啦,這個是幫助大家走到未來的工作機會啦剛剛那個圖圈吉說的,圖委員說的勞工,比較勞的這個我們會再跟勞動部來討論想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
802.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
你不要找一些高階的,有程度高,一般來就比較好找套路啊,現在老的比較多,要訓練到有什麼初級的,還可以到中級,這樣可以改觀我們的就業啊,這是比較重要吧 |