| IVOD_ID |
161320 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161320 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T09:59:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T10:15:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:48 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971bdc879f56c75907d1a35373469a84e2c35433fb1cebf983d8e2ce94d99c1cf0755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:59:48 - 10:15:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：
一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案。
三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案。
四、本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
五、本院委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
（第一案如未獲議事處來函則不予審查，第二至第五案業經各黨團簽署不復議同意書。）（詢答）
【5月14日及5月15日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的次長何次長這個陳兄弟先問一下這個主席啊這個我們郭部長今天要請假他去美國談關於重要事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
64.669 |
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老師我諮詢都傾向好奇怪雖然每次他言之無誤我還是希望跟他對話不好 何市長來我請教你昨天核管法通過了結果左榮泰 左奎由不鳥咧五六十七如期廚藝那個台電董事長一起來這個人家專家算了二十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.618 |
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74.404 |
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原液花900億可是可以省一兆兩千億多賺了一兆兩千億這賢利不太足啊啊900億VS1.2兆億罰給你了然後川普這兩天說了讓美國的核電再次偉大要蓋四倍的核電廠川普講的AIT的主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
96.721 |
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102.445 |
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公開講了這兩天的事情 都這兩天的事情AIT主席講了 民進黨你們所擔心的核案的問題 美國負責核廢的問題 美國負責你怕什麼 法 在野黨 全世界找不到這麼貼心的在野黨法都給你弄好了 結果你們不娘咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
121.5 |
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142.975 |
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還要擁抱一個虛幻的一個非核家園啊何市長你可以回答嗎還是要我們曾董事長回答我先跟委員報告一下就是說整個核電的核電的這個嚴厲其實要確保就是核電的安全安全的美國負責啊美國負責啊他需要做一個總體檢美國負責啊需要做總體檢美國負責啊美國給你負責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
147.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
核電的安全是全民應該最關切的啦美國負責啦AAT主席谷立賢他負責美國核電的來我請教這個鄭董事長請問你啊我們核一廠有沒有空間原來是普及嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
173.396 |
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181.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
原來蓋了四部機 只有你各用兩部機一次做兩部機合一廠現在是兩部機已經足夠但是它的空間有幾部機 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.625 |
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194.13 |
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原來最早期規劃的時候可以放四部四部機嘛 所以河域就有兩個空間嘛 兩部機的空間嘛河 也是有兩部機的空間嘛河山有四部機的空間嘛我這樣講對嗎所以委員你是要講說新蓋也是有新蓋啊 美國就要做這個審理啊新蓋機組啊 新蓋機組 那是原來應用的空間請問你 蓋蓋蓋一部機組抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
210.496 |
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219.059 |
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因為我們要做廚藝的一些室內乾除空間可能這原來的空間會有一點點不足沒有完全像你剛才講的那個美國可以幫你解決美國可以幫你解決我請教你根據幾個專家說一部機組大概2000億左右這個對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
231.383 |
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242.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你說兩千億台幣嗎台幣我這樣子說新建機組坦白講兩千億台幣其實我們看到西方國家現在蓋機組的價格還蠻我覺得兩千億是過低估了啦差不多多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.114 |
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254.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那個沒有100億美金一部機組好 那就3000億嘛那就3000億嘛我給你算六部就是18000億嘛剛好我們現在分期來講的話這個可以縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
台美的貿易逆差這麼正的事情 你都不要做美國現在就是要發展核電啊全世界都在發展核電啊 你們就硬不要撒謊咧 我就撒謊咧對不對 如果你們同意 如果你們說 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.987 |
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297.752 |
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我們就順順順波下雨啊這個順著這樣整個天時地利 美國爸爸都同意了全部核廢料也幫你處理了 核安也幫你處理了蓋電廠沒有問題 經營他也幫你啦這樣來說 這麼正的事情 接下來一千億就給你啦我可能就認為 只要你答應說我們要重啟火電我們一千億不為難 給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們少掉1000粒沒問題不要去那個1000粒給你要回答嗎我先講第一個事情喔一個國家的核能安全基本上還是要各個國家自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
來確保啊你對台電那麼有信心喔因為你一直在講台電的核電管理人力全世界前六名欸但是你剛才的講法全部是美國說可以啊美國AAT的長官講的啊AAT處長講的啊我覺得如果要討論能源議題真的不是這樣子談不是誰誰誰什麼美國爸爸就不是這種事情我們可不可以就一項一項真正要解決的問題來談請問你對台電的核電管理人力沒有信心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
359.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員你不可以這樣子說啦 我要這樣講我覺得核能的問題是過40年來台電營運核能機組超過40年這40年有它的RAC在我覺得我們要背上這個RAC一個一個來托克我們不覺得我們核電的同仁不努力台電的核電管理人力全世界排行是前幾名的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
有人講第五名 有人講第六名 有人講第四名不管怎麼樣是名列輕某在全世界33個國家有使用核能的裡面台電是台電的運營這一段的表現很強喔 不要否定自己喔 不要驚喜喔 對不對所以你不答應就對了喔好沒關係第二個問題我到現在為止沒有答應不答應的問題我先說一個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你昨天通過的法令它還是有一個前提昨天通過的法令是你們台北提出申請所以你不要申請就對了我們昨天就發了警告如果你有看我們的新聞你就會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
母法說現在不論不論執照通過執照借其與否之前可以申請之後也可以申請這是這一次修正條文的內容但是對於一個申請機關就是台電受管制機關來講我們需要配套的執法他需要台電國安會要台電做哪些合理的安全檢查我們台北都做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
481.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
大家聽到的是我們給媒體的大標題左軌點兩點5月17日這個河山如期除役就是沒力求 河管沒力求報告員 報告員昨天眾使是通過你的法律還是要我們送河管機關同意點拿到指導今天是5月14了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
483.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
今天是5月14、5月17要重新換照又要有審查的期間這怎麼可能呢報告委員我已經說了我需要有執法的相關規範來做評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我已經一再說明我們昨天台電第一時間新聞稿也發就是經濟部的新聞稿已經發出來了要不要提出來你們不要嘛很清楚不要嘛報告委員你否認嗎各個公司要去提研議我們現在講研議還不是重啓現在是重啓研議的相關工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
確實要啟動自己內部的檢核 做過經濟效益等等評估才來做決定 國外的電廠也有提供原液成分拋回來的 請問你什麼時候評估可以做什麼時候評估可以做我覺得如果不管機 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
544.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主管機關沒有執法主管機關有執法我來評估這個可以嗎而且我要告訴報告委員他的程序上面程序上面需要核能設施操作機關做全面的安全分析報告老化的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對 他要有這些關鍵的資訊他如果給你 你就可以做評估現在我問你 他如果有該欄給你你多久可以評估出來 你告訴我報告委員他如果該欄給你 你什麼時候評估出來如果有確定的該欄 我看他是要求那幾個分寸 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
603.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你多久可以評估出來?你評估多久?我只講一件事,如果這個是要好好做,我們就是要好好做,做好相關的安全...你多久可以評估出來?你答案怎麼不出來?委員,我不知道管制單位要我考哪些試? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我就說我可以做完什麼考卷好 那這個題目你不答了再問一個題目要操作核能機組一定要被社會信任你這個特別預算你是要來要1000億喔你要來1000億喔那好 那不然第二個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你竟然合併跟他去碰來毆你一千億一千億的條件所以一定要去做一個要有安全前提存在的案子我要事先同意你你才要補我一千億那你這個安全前提還存在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
640.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你講都聽不懂我再問你我們可以不要顧安全前提然後就直接先答應你然後再說一千億我沒有說我一定不會做這件事那你不可以這樣子這個在地法院本來是要脅台電嘛你都一直搶話讓我講我可以嗎讓我講我可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
660.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
672.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你要跟立法院要錢總是要聽我們講話嘛 對不對我們擔心的是什麼不然你承諾2028年之前絕對不漲電價2028年之前絕對不漲電價做得到嗎做得到嗎 你做得到我就支持你國際油價能夠確定它不漲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
688.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以就是三千億給你三千億補助啦你漲價四次所以你別說他錢不是漲價啊這才是問題啊來 我再看第二問題 跟這個有關係的美國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
729.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
天然氣我們要買600萬噸他們的阿拉斯卡州長說了這件事情佔阿拉斯卡的三成我們2024年進口量總共是2100多萬噸美國佔10%現在要再加600萬噸進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
744.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
原來18什麼意思 大概200噸左右啦現在等於800萬噸左右這個是不是確定的事情我們要多買600萬噸這是確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
748.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
768.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
跟國民報告因為這個採購這個這個部分是要到2032年之後我們才會啟動這樣的一個採購的一個基本上同意啊你要同意才好談啊那目前的話我們還是帶美方這邊來提供相關的這些這些相關採購的條件目前你同意嗎目前當然我們已經有簽了這個買賣的所以目前是同意的嗎同意嗎好第二個第二個第二個還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
777.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
786.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
從北極圈拉線到阿拉斯卡他們是美國家裡的市區的喔440億美金有1280公里書館線我們要負擔多少他要韓國日本跟我們負擔韓國日本說不要結果通通我們來負是不是這個意思我們要負擔多少我們其實都已經有簽了投資意向書了我們會參與投資但是目前那個投資的比例現在大家還沒有談 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
806.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
但是確定要啦 確定要 確定要對 我們是希望 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能夠 希望能 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
834.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
844.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席長 我就問你一個要跟立法院 希望立法院通過支持你們錢變特別預算比較快 還是追加預算比較快 你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
846.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
862.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
都差不多 兩個都差不多最佳預算比較快啦 媽你講啦你特別預算還要特別預算通過特別預算最少一個月以上還要協商最佳預算你今天提出來只要經過院會馬上可以審啦想也知道 隨便想也知道最佳預算當然比較快啊剛才我已經沒有時間去請教我們的這個要管這個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
875.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
896.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你們講多重要我都支持我都支持你講2500億我也支持但是請用最佳預算快點早早拿到錢特別預算比較慢要多一個條例就多一個半月以上一多沒有我已經沒有時間了你不用來了第二個問題請問你26馬上來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
902.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
925.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
預算開始抽編了吧是已經有概算了吧已經開始抽編那個支出多少總支出大概多少還沒有彙整還沒有彙整大概 比今年多嗎不是 各單位 比今年多一點各單位正在提報 但是還沒有彙整但是你知道比今年多一點吧還不知道怎麼會不知道拜託你組織一場咧 這麼大條對不對報告 留一點版面給人家吧好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
930.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
935.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
沒有啦 我沒有版面啦 我來這裡沒版面的最後一個國防預算是不是確定的3%就你這個 總要回答我一點啦你沒一點都不回答我我們是往這方面來努力3%啦喔 國防預算3%好 謝謝好 |
| gazette.lineno |
508 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（9時59分）謝謝主席，以及各位先進，有請經濟部何次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請何次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
何次長晉滄：賴委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：權宜問題先問一下，主席，郭部長今天又請假？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
主席：他去美國談關稅。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：去美國，好。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
主席：重要事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：為何老是在我質詢時請假？好奇怪，雖然每次他都言之無物，但我還是希望跟他對話啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
何次長，我請教你，昨天核管法通過，結果卓榮泰、卓揆不鳥，表示5月17日如期除役。有專家算了延役要花900億，可是延20年可以省1兆2,000億，多賺1兆2,000億，結果這生意不做。900億VS. 1.2兆億，法給你了，然後川普這兩天說讓美國的核電再次偉大，要蓋4倍的核電廠，這是川普講的。AIT的主席也公開講了，都是這兩天的事情，AIT主席講：民進黨所擔心的核安問題，美國負責；核廢料問題，美國負責。你們是在怕什麼？全世界找不到這麼貼心的在野黨，法都給你們弄好了，結果你們不鳥耶！還要擁抱一個虛幻的非核家園。何次長，你可以回答嗎？還是要曾董事長回答？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
何次長晉滄：我先跟委員報告一下，整個核電的延役是要確保核電的安全…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：安全由美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
何次長晉滄：安全…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
何次長晉滄：它需要做一個總體檢。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
何次長晉滄：需要做總體檢。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
何次長晉滄：所以這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：由美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
何次長晉滄：核電的安全應該是全民最關切的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國負責啊！美國負責啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
何次長晉滄：不過…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：AIT主席谷立言在臉書表示，美國負責核電的……來，我請教曾董事長，核一廠有沒有空間？原來四部機，對不對？原來蓋了四部機，結果用了兩部機，已收了兩部機。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
曾董事長文生：核一廠現在是兩部機已經除役。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是它的空間有幾部機？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
曾董事長文生：原來最早期規劃的時候可以放四部。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：四部機嘛！所以核一就有兩部機的空間，核二也是有兩部機的空間，核三有四部機的空間，我這樣講對嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，你是要講新蓋？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：是新蓋啊！美國就是要做這個生意啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
曾董事長文生：新蓋機組？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：新蓋機組，美國人來蓋啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
曾董事長文生：那個是原來預留的空間。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：我請問你，蓋一部機組多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，你讓我修正一點，因為我們要做除役的一些室內乾貯空間，可能這原來的空間會有一點點不足，沒有完全像你剛才講的…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個美國可以幫你解決。我請教你，根據幾個專家的說法，蓋一部機組大概2,000億左右，這個對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
曾董事長文生：你說2,000億臺幣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：臺幣。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
曾董事長文生：我這樣子說，若要新建機組，坦白講2,000億臺幣……其實我們看到西方國家，現在蓋機組的價格還蠻……我覺得2,000億是低估了。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：差不多要多少？你講差不多要多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
曾董事長文生：一部機組沒有100億美金是蓋不起來的。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，那就3,000億，若是算六部，就是1兆8,000億，剛好我們現在分期來講的話，這個可以縮短臺美的貿易逆差，這麼讚的事情你們都不做。美國現在就是要發展核電，全世界都在發展核電，你們就硬不要，我就搞不懂，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，我…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果你們同意順坡下驢，順著整個天時、地利，美國爸爸都同意了，全部核廢料也幫你們處理了、核安也幫你們處理了，蓋電廠沒有問題，經營它也幫你們，這樣來說，這麼讚的事情，接下來1,000億就給你們啦！我個人就認為只要你答應要重啟核電，我們1,000億不為難，給你！我們少掉1,000億，沒問題，就給1,000億！結果你也不要。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
曾董事長文生：你要我回答嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，回答，我當然要你回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
曾董事長文生：我先講第一個事情，各個國家的核能安全，基本上還是要各個國家自己來確保。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：你對台電那麼沒信心？台電的核電管理能力全世界前6名耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
曾董事長文生：你剛才的講法全部是美國說可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：美國AIT處長講的啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
曾董事長文生：我覺得如果要討論能源議題，真的不是這樣子談，不是誰、誰、誰，什麼美國爸爸，就不是這種事情。我們可不可以一項、一項針對真正需要解決的問題來討論？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你對台電的核電管理能力沒有信心嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，不可以這樣子說。我要這樣講，我覺得核能的問題，台電營運核能機組超過40年…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
曾董事長文生：這40年有record在。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
曾董事長文生：我覺得要based on record一個一個來討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：我是給你肯定的哦！ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
曾董事長文生：我不覺得我們核電廠的同仁不努力，我也不覺得…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：台電的核電管理能力在全世界排行是前幾名的哦！有人講第5名、有人講第6名、有人講第4名，不管怎麼樣是名列前茅，到目前為止沒有出過一件事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
曾董事長文生：在全世界33個有使用核能的國家裡面，台電運營這部分的表現一直在前5名之內。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：很強哦！不要否定自己！不要怕死！所以你不答應就對了？好，沒關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，我到現在為止沒有答應不答應的問題，我先說一件事，昨天通過的法令，還是有一個前提，前提就是要送…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：昨天通過的法令是「得」，是由台電提出申請，所以你不要申請就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
曾董事長文生：我們昨天就發了新聞稿，如果你有看我們的新聞稿就會知道，母法說現在不論…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：得、得、得…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
曾董事長文生：你讓我講完好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
曾董事長文生：不論執照屆期與否，之前可以申請，之後也可以申請，這是這一次修正條文的內容。但是對於申請機關，就是台電、受管制機關來講，我們需要配套的子法，核安會需要台電做哪些合理的安全檢查，我們才能夠做相關的工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說得「落落長」，大家聽不懂。大家聽到的是媒體的大標題「卓揆：5月17日核三如期除役。」就是這樣，就是卓揆不理會。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
曾董事長文生：報告委員，昨天縱使是通過法律，還是要我們送核管機關同意才能拿到執照。今天是5月14，5月17要重新換照，又有審查的期間，這個怎麼可能呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，我就問你要不要提出來？我就問你這個，你沒有給我答案。要不要提出來？你不用講一堆，要或不要？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
曾董事長文生：報告委員，我已經說了，我需要有子法的相關規範來評估，我已經一再說明，昨天台電第一時間也發出新聞稿，就是經濟部的新聞稿已經發出來了…… |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：要不要提出來？你們不要嘛！很清楚你不要嘛！你否認嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
曾董事長文生：報告委員，各個公司要去提延役，我們現在講延役還不是重啟，延役的相關工作，確實要啟動自己內部的檢核，做過經濟效益等等評估才來做決定，國外的電廠也有提出延役申請之後抽回來的，各種可能都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你什麼時候評估可以做完？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
曾董事長文生：報告委員，我覺得如果主管機關…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：一個月可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
曾董事長文生：如果主管機關有子法，我來評估，這樣可以嗎？而且我要報告委員，程序上需要核能設施操作機關做全面的安全分析報告、老化的報告，以及…… |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：你講的是核安會，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
曾董事長文生：對。要有這些關鍵的子法，確定我們該做什麼事，我們才有基礎做評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：它如果給你guideline，你多久可以評估出來？你告訴我。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
曾董事長文生：如果有確定的guideline，我看它是要求哪些分析…… |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：你多久可以評估出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
曾董事長文生：我要看是哪些分析。我只講一件事，如果這個事要好好做，我們就是要好好做，做好相關的安全的準備工作…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：你多久可以評估出來？問你都問不出來答案。兩個月能評估出來嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
曾董事長文生：我不知道管制單位要我考哪些試，我就說我可以做完什麼考卷，我覺得如果要操作核能機組，一定要被社會信任，我真的不覺得草率地回答是一個很好的回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：這次的特別預算，你要來要1,000億。好，不然第二個條件，你既然核電不敢去碰…… |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
曾董事長文生：1,000億的條件是一定要有安全前提存在的案子，我要事先同意，你才要補我1,000億，這樣的安全前提還存在嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說的我都聽不懂。來，我再問你，你可不可以答應拿了1,000億…… |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
曾董事長文生：我們可以不顧安全前提先答應你，然後來拿1,000億……我沒有說我一定不會做這件事，但你不可以這樣子，這個在立法院等於是要脅台電嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
賴委員士葆：你都一直搶話，讓我講完可以嗎？你要跟立法院要錢，總是要聽我們講話，我們擔心的是什麼嘛！不然你承諾2028年之前絕對不漲電價。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
曾董事長文生：什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
賴委員士葆：2028年之前絕對不漲電價，做得到嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
曾董事長文生：委員，但是我不能夠…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
賴委員士葆：做得到嗎？你做得到，我就給，我就支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
曾董事長文生：國際油價能夠確定它不漲嗎？布蘭特原油天天都在浮動，一定不漲嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們已經補助…… |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
曾董事長文生：不可能是這樣！市場的事情不可能一定不變。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
賴委員士葆：我的時間已經到了，讓我講完。已經補助你們3,000億，你們漲價四次，一邊跟我們拿錢、一邊漲價！這才是問題啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
曾董事長文生：報告委員，3,000億不是補助，而是增資，並無法處理累計虧損。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
賴委員士葆：來，我再看第二個問題，跟這個也有關係。美國的天然氣，我們要買600萬噸，阿拉斯加州長說，這件事情占阿拉斯加的三成，我們2024年進口量總共是兩千一百多萬噸，美國占10%，現在要再加600萬噸進來，原來10%什麼意思，大概就是200噸左右，現在是800萬噸左右，這個是不是確定的事情？我們要多買600萬噸，這是確定的嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，採購的部分是到2032年之後，我們才會啟動採購…… |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
賴委員士葆：基本上，你要同意才好談。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
何次長晉滄：對，目前我們還是待美方提供採購相關的條件。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
賴委員士葆：目前你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[104][0] |
何次長晉滄：目前當然我們已經有簽了買賣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[105][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以目前是同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[106][0] |
何次長晉滄：同意書。 |
| gazette.blocks[107][0] |
賴委員士葆：第二個，從北極圈拉線到阿拉斯加，這是美國家裡的事情，440億美金有1,280公里的輸管線，我們要負擔多少？他要韓國、日本跟我們負擔，韓國、日本說不要，結果通通由我們來付，是不是這個意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，我們其實都已經有簽投資意向書，我們會參與投資，但是目前投資的比例現在大家還沒有談。 |
| gazette.blocks[109][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是確定要？ |
| gazette.blocks[110][0] |
何次長晉滄：確定要。我們是希望能夠…… |
| gazette.blocks[111][0] |
賴委員士葆：何次長這個真的有一點「盼仔」的感覺，他們蓋房子，怎麼要我們幫忙？很奇怪！ |
| gazette.blocks[111][1] |
最後我請教主計長，主計長很有內涵，讓你表現一下。主計長，我只要1分鐘，我就問你，希望立法院通過支持你們預算，編特別預算比較快還是追加預算比較快？你告訴我。 |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：都差不多，兩個都差不多。 |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
賴委員士葆：追加預算比較快啦！不能這樣說啦！特別預算還要特別預算通過，特別預算最少要一個月以上，還要協商。追加預算，你今天提出來，只要經過院會馬上可以審啦！隨便想也知道，追加預算當然比較快啊！剛才你們講這多重要，我都支持！你講2,500億，我也支持，但是請用追加預算比較快！早早拿到錢，特別預算比較慢，要多一個條例，就多一個半月以上。第二個問題，請問你，2026馬上來了，預算開始籌編了吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[115][0] |
賴委員士葆：已經有概算了吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[116][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：已經開始籌編了。 |
| gazette.blocks[117][0] |
賴委員士葆：總支出大概多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：還沒有彙整，各單位正在提報。 |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
賴委員士葆：比今年多嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：不是，各單位正在提報，但是還沒有彙整。 |
| gazette.blocks[121][0] |
賴委員士葆：但是你知道比今年多一點吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[122][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：還不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼會不知道？拜託，你是主計長，這麼大，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[124][0] |
主席：葆哥，留點版面給人家吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有啦，我沒有版面，來這裡沒版面的。最後一個，國防預算是不是確定占3%？你總要回答我一點，你們都不回答我…… |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們是往這方面來努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
賴委員士葆：國防預算3%啦，好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[128][1] |
現在請邱議瑩委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
154 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
41 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144901_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查：一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案；三、
本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案；四、本院委
員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；五、本院
委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144901_00002 |