| IVOD_ID |
161196 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161196 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-12T11:26:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-12T11:40:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:04 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2e24114430e85d52e5b7abc006f82172988fdfbeb5b668758c36c5eeff8411ba42d906fa9f5dffe95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡其昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:26:22 - 11:40:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查(一)委員吳宗憲等17人、(二)委員賴士葆等28人、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等26人分別擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」及(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工智慧發展及管理條例草案」案。
二、審查(一)委員林俊憲等23人擬具「公路法第二十七條、第二十八條及第七十五條條文修正草案」、(二)委員陳冠廷等18人、(三)委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「公路法第三十二條條文修正草案」、(四)委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「公路法第三十三條條文修正草案」、(五)台灣民眾黨黨團、(六)委員馬文君等19人、(七)委員邱若華等17人分別擬具「公路法第三十九條之一條文修正草案」、(八)委員何欣純等18人擬具「公路法第四十六條及第六十條之一條文修正草案」、(九)委員王義川等16人擬具「公路法第六十五條條文修正草案」及(十)委員林俊憲等21人擬具「公路法第七十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查(一)委員林俊憲等22人擬具「停車場法第四條條文修正草案」、(二)委員廖先翔等17人擬具「停車場法第三十二條條文修正草案」及(三)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「停車場法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。
【本日會議僅針對開會事由二及三進行合併詢答】） |
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謝謝主席麻煩主席請交通部陳政次好 陳次長委員好次長好是次長今天有兩個題目想來救教次長第一個我想這些年來陸續媒體也都有報導就是特別是開放現在這個檢舉之後 |
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這個媒體也都有報導就是有關那個高速公路啊要下這個交流道譬如說這個台76線啊這個中部地區民眾非常常常使用台76線在12點 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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省道跟高速公路都有啦譬如說台76線下這個浦新交流道然後下浦沿閘道都會出現擁捨情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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那庸舍呢大家就會一路從下面一路往上塞往上塞的結果就會塞到那個叫做路尖然後呢就有人檢舉那過去呢我查了一下新聞資料像這個 |
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95.282 |
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TVBS媒體的報導警察依檢舉影片開80張發單就一整排車主都收到紅單那本席最近也同樣收到民眾的陳情也是一樣因為要排隊嘛這個紅色的車子要排隊那排隊你看他的車輪啊已經一輪在這個這個路肩上面所以呢就檢舉這個所愛這個行駛路肩那 |
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市長這個我想不是今天才發生那過去法院也曾判決我查了一下資料法院也曾針對民眾在法院有訴訟所以法院就認證說排入監是為了緊急避難所以准予撤銷這個罰單 |
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所以我看過公路局的做法這個法院准許撤銷罰單然後我們的做法裡面有去改快速道路或者高速公路這個路肩的情形那也有要求要動態檢舉也就是不能憑一張照片因為那動態表示這個透過動態就可以看到他是故意要走路肩還是被迫走路肩 |
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所以動態的檢舉也是一種方法但是呢這個民眾到今天為止還是譬如說我講這一張罰單我請公路單位來說明公路單位還是他覺得沒有辦法還是要請民眾自己去申訴那市長我想喔這個民眾喔其實市農工商很忙啊 |
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227.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
被開了罰單 明明就是在路間等待塞車就下面我就下不去嘛那 這樣的一個塞車情形民眾還要主動被開這個單子已經是気持很壞了這就不是 他就沒有錯啊 他就你你政府應該解決塞車的問題啊你塞車讓我下不去我排隊在那裡 還要被檢舉 還要開罰單開罰單你告訴我說 你自己去申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
239.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以本席今天透過這個質詢就是要來救救次長像這種叫民怨這種就是制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
269.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
制度殺人啦簡單講就是這樣子那所以市長我看過過去的方法譬如說我們曾經在法院認證上把它撤銷當然這個不好啦不宜叫大家每一個人都上法院這個制度設計叫大家你法開完之後我把你開了你自己再去法院講嘛這個我是覺得非常不妥所以有些路段或許適合在工程設計上去做調整但 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
270.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
298.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我也接受我們公路同仁的講法有些路段是不適合的所以開路間是不對的不可以但如果因為被迫他必須因為你塞車嘛所以我必須就必須要在那裡排隊那我們也曾經有個案叫做我們要求在有些路段應該不說個案有些路段要求要動態檢舉那為什麼我們交通部不統一去宣布說類似像這種情形都應該要動態檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
300.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
323.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
來 次長我想我跟委員報告一下有關委員剛才舉例的很多這些照片其實都牽涉到這個相關的違規舉發的這個相關的實務而且應該除了公務主管機關之外可能也要跟警察機關大家共同去討論一下因為什麼樣的情況下 當然是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
該委員特別要緊急避難啊或者是什麼樣情況下他來行駛這樣不得行駛的一個路段這個說不定有他的可行性但是是不是一定是這樣這個可能要再討論一下所以委員特別提到的這個部分我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可以帶回去請司裡頭或是公路局或高工局整個道路主管機關再跟警察機關好好大家討論一下到底是什麼樣的情況因為即便是在這個塞車的時候所有的車輛還是要遵循著相關的一個規定來行駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
387.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為他剛才什麼樣的情況下是所有的車子都跑到路肩了這個可能要去探究一下說不定就是在前面有什麼樣的一個狀況發生了所以整個來講可能不宜從這樣幾張照片就說不可市長你可能完全沒有懂我剛剛花了很長時間在講這件事情我要告訴你是什麼他就是有一些樣態我講過不可以走路肩喔但有一些樣態他是不得不走路肩喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
405.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
譬如說舉例嘛 它如果一路從快車道排上來 簡單講它要塞住最外側的車道 如果塞車的時候 閘道塞車它已經一路從閘道一直排上來 它一定要排到最外側的車道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那大家會習慣 譬如說前面一台車 排外車 大家會覺得說為了讓車 高速公路不要塞車 大家就會盡量往路間往路間靠 這人性嘛 你現在懂我在講什麼嗎 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他如果不是因為這個樣子而去行駛路肩這當然要罰那本席告訴你的是一種特別的樣態你的設計他就自然而然他一個車輪可能他一半因為他要讓快車道好開嘛所以他就會自然不要塞到人家在塞車大家盡量靠邊停嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那靠邊停 前面都靠邊停 我一個人難道我要就給他停在外側車道嗎 不可能 我會跟著前面的車靠邊停所以我靠邊停 我的一個輪子可能在路肩甚至大家都停路肩的時候 我也會跟著停路肩因為我不可能一個人 我就停外側車道因為前面整排塞車上來都停路肩那我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
政府站在這些案例上面這些易塞車路段只要一有人檢舉就會倒這個不是今天才有的個案嘛就會有人檢舉就會導致民眾他自然而然他就會去車子就會在路肩上面嘛所以他被拍照他就會要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
486.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你就要叫他自己去申訴啊不然他能怎麼樣所以我的意思是說政府不應該去做這種事情啦政府應該要站在人民的立場說如果遇到類似什麼樣的情況 譬如說舉例我剛剛講 譬如說你們曾經做過的有一個路段你們叫動態檢舉就不可以只憑一張照片就你透過影片我就知道你們整排都在排隊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以你們要不要跟警察單位來協商說面對這種情況該怎麼執法然後讓以後類似像只要你要檢舉這種狀況你就必須要動態如果你是單張照片的一張照片我就不予受理這個要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
531.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
方法跟你們一個解方出來 不然人民就是常常會遇到這種遇到一個人 他就到處在檢舉這個我塞在車陣中 你要我要怎麼做市長你現在懂我的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
567.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我想我了解委員剛才講的動態檢舉是我們上一次要檢舉民眾檢舉的時候希望不要單憑一張照片所以才會講到說檢舉的時候希望要有幾張照片來輔助那這裡又提到說這如果是警察自己的檢舉的影帶那其實就是一個video那個是真的是連貫的所以我想委員剛才提到的這樣會誤讓民眾這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對 沒有錯 剛才司長講說要開放 但是路肩可能就是就是寬度不足的啦我沒有要開放路肩 你為什麼聽不懂來來來 我舉個例子 市長這一台車有沒有違規 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
586.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這一台車有沒有違規他的輪子 這個是車道喔 這個是路肩那塞車的情況 就這一整排都把他移到這個車道來你們的主張是不是這個樣子我沒有要你開放路肩 我再講一次啦為什麼老師聽不懂我在講什麼公路局就已經聽不懂了 換次長講 還是聽不懂我只問你說 如果你現在這台車的司機是你請問你 你要停這裡跟整排都停到 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
車子壓到路肩還是你自己要停在這裡你告訴我這樣就好了這個塞車他為什麼會停在這裡他不是要開路肩啊我也要沒有要你開放路肩嘛我只問你說人民卡在這個車站當中車子後面的人檢舉他就要去想辦法自己去解決阿凱阿你都聽不下去我問你嘛這次如果是你 你要怎麼啦這人就是要檢舉違規因為他在路肩命令嘛我了解委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
644.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
657.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個舉例啦這個我們了解所以我剛才也有講到說相關的這樣的一個情形呢我們會請那個公路主管機關就是我們的私裡頭或者是公路局跟高工局跟警察機關就實務上是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
659.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
680.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
他們在檢舉上所遇到的問題我現在就問你交通部的態度我當然也同意你們這又不是你去開罰單不是你交通部去開罰單嘛但是你是公路的主管機關嘛所以我先問公路的主管機關態度是怎麼樣如果今天警察局署長有來我當然問署長啊那因為現在就你在這裡所以我當然問你嘛你的態度是什麼你要讓我知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
680.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
699.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
外台都其實就是交通部的一貫的態度檢舉 處罰民眾一定不是我們的本意啦所以在這個處罰上就是講他的合理性可責性的情況下才會來處罰那所以剛才我特別提到這牽涉到實務上的處理我會跟警察機關討論以後來律定一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
702.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
727.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以你現在知道卡通交通部是不是能夠理解這個狀況是不是同意說如果遇到這種特殊的情形法院叫做緊急避難啊交通部是不是同意說來交通部同意說這個特殊情形我們應該對於怎麼來開罰單應該有一個一致性的律定那這一致性的律定交通部同意但 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
727.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
748.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
要跟警察機關來溝通這我們會來跟警察機關這樣對不對 我說的這樣你贊成嗎贊成 贊成市長我只要叫你這樣而已 我也沒辦法來做不是你在開端的嘛但是我要跟你說這個人民很堅固啦我了解啦 所以我們做官就要站在人民的立場如果是換你將心比心換你是這一個現在還要你去上法院所以你自己去申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
750.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
774.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你不要做市長 你來做人民看你的手氣所以我剛剛有說我們原則上是不經意來處罰民眾我剛好說要主張開放路肩對不對 我沒有這個主張啊公路局來給我說明過了 我也同意這是特殊情形嘛我再舉個例子 如果這裡發生車禍民眾剛好前面有車禍 他開過來路肩因為要閃躲這個車禍嘛被照到 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
780.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
806.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個是不是特殊情形但是如果憑一張照片他就可能出現他把車禍現場避掉叫那個人民自已去想辦法我意思要跟你講的就是說交通部我們的政府官員不可以這樣嘛你那個執法單位你是公路主管機關所以有這麼多的案例民眾的抱怨甚至上法院了我只要求你們有一個態度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
807.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
828.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不是你們一步步都改觀嘛這要跟執法單位警政署來聯繫嘛但是你有這個態度你就會去做這件事嘛人民的堅固在哪裡站在人民的立場替他們想一想嘛將心比心你自己想如果是你我在這裡拍馬三字經啦那會酸酸到不會酸啦你們懂我在講什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
832.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
836.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
市長 現在麻煩你啦時間的關鍵我本來有兩件啦現在沒辦法 只剩下我們說一件而已啦下一件就等你們部長來再講好了好 謝謝好 謝謝蔡其章 |