| IVOD_ID |
161194 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161194 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-12T11:17:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-12T11:34:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2e24114430e85d52d7e9b8e17e0600e763ba08a40ece61fc394796d2191c023f6249bd8a06f3bcbd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:17:20 - 11:34:00 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共1案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案。
三、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。
四、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共23案。） |
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您再請,我看看俄羅斯人就少受罪謝謝莊委員每次都給我鼓勵這是真心的今天因為是針對整個預算的詢答所以我就事論事就是針對預算的部分那首先我想先請人事長請蘇人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.362 |
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50.867 |
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委員長市長好我想我首先先問您一個就是我們在上禮拜通過了今年日與假日實施條例那麼我有看到新聞上面您有說這次的這個通過的國定假日的修法會有一些治案難行的地方是不是可以請您說明一下為什麼會有治案難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.849 |
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沒有自然難行所以我們現在多增加的五天的國定假日人事總署這裡應該是可以做適當的安排嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.792 |
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90.118 |
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因為整個法令就是等總統三讀通過以後我們會按照整個法令的規定怎樣我們就事實上我們前幾天事實上已經有示牌了一些可能未來假日的一些他會落在哪一個位置然後相關的細節我們已經有做第一版的一個示牌好那所以聽您這樣說的話應該行政院不會針對這個案子提起復議案吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.975 |
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111.915 |
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很抱歉我沒有辦法幫行政院來打呼這個不過好我從您剛剛的回答理念大概可以知道現在民進黨政府應該是不會針對這個案提起復議如果提起復議的話不就是成為全民公敵了嗎好那接下來呢我有接下來就針對兩個預算案的部分在這次審查預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.956 |
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其實有兩個當然跟人總的案子很多啦那麼其中有兩個案子是本行比較關心的就是當時我們有這個凍結一個人總的有關於人事行政政策規劃執行及發展案的這1000萬的案子那時候就是有請人總可以盡速的提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例那請問一下你們現在這樣子的一個法案的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
160.414 |
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我跟委員報告因為在整個上一年三一夜的時候在大宴有提這樣的一個要求以後我們就開始進行一些邀請這些利害團體來開會然後也公聽會各方面都已經完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
160.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
177.062 |
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那在上一年年底我們已經把整個草案送已經完成人權跟姓名的評估嘛然後也 政委也開會那現在就等行政院排入整個院會議程然後會送大院整個程序已經進行到這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.118 |
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只是進行到行政院所以根本還沒有說到立法院所以我們根本還沒有看到你們的草案草案我們有對外公告大概有八點因為我想很多委員很關心的是參與的那個諮詢會本來是基層的公教人員代表是沒有我們這次增加了四位進來這是當初的一個要求我們都已經列入到整個新的這個八 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.678 |
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224.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
八點裡面都已經把他拉進來了因為這涉及到就是這一千萬到底能不能解凍那麼當時的要求是說你們要把草案送到立法院可是看起來你們現在都還在行政院會議裡面可能都還沒有排入行政院的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
226.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以我想這個部分可能之後要請你們把這個草案送到立法院之後那麼我們才可以來做預算案的解凍否則的話不給你們壓力也不知道這個軍公教人員的待遇調整條例草案會什麼時候才會送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.846 |
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不過我這裡真的要拜託委員要支持因為就像學生在寫考卷一樣考卷我已經交到老師那裡老師還沒有批我想責任不能怪在學生嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
271.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為老師有時候什麼時候改什麼時候你們是公正的第三方我們當時給你們要求是說是你們要盡速的要提出軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案我們已經提出了我們已經提出了又不是提出道立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
299.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為裡面會有一些行政程序要走啊所以就是說你們要盡速的跟行政院院長反映到行政院會那裡要盡速排案有跟行政院那一邊報告過了然後也請求盡快能夠排入整個院會的議程因為排入行政院院會議程以後才會送到大院已經有拜託好幾次了因為行政院會有公正的考量今天我是在幫忙人事長非常謝謝委員的建議提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一定要讓院長知道不要一天到晚都只是會去這個下鄉宣講搞大罷免這重要的案子院會該排就排而不是一直拖拖拉拉的從去年到現在已經有多久的時間了好除了這個案子之外還有另外一個就是有關於職安的防護辦法修正草案跟軍公教人員的公務人員有關的這個其實只是辦法啦當時也是說希望人事總署這邊能夠盡速提出你們什麼時候會提呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個保訓會裡面在公務人員保障法已經在5月6號送到大宴來了5月6號已經送到大宴來了所以你的意思講說這個職安的就公務人員的安全及衛生防護辦法的話這部分的話就跟人種沒有關係是嗎不是沒有關係有關係可是這個法規的主管機關在考試宴那考試宴已經在5月6號已經送到大宴來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好那所以你的意思講說就你們的部分你們的階段已經完成了嗎安慰辦法要匯辦我們行政院然後因為匯嫌而已因為安慰辦法是在兩院匯嫌那他的上有的那個法例公務人員保障法已經5月6號送到大院來的好的了解了好OK那接下來呢我要請法務部對好是謝謝任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
410.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
是 部長在這邊有一個議題我想要請您再幫忙澄清事實上這次的預算凍結案裡面有一個是涉及到律師職前訓練的當時法務部這裡應該是編了300多萬後來我們是凍結了50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
可是在今年3月初的時候全聯會自己就發了一個新聞稿講說我們這次有關於律師職權訓練的預算案因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
法務部刪除了該部的檢查行政業務的費用的10%所以呢整個的之前訓練的預算就下修為297萬然後看起來又把這個責任又怪罪到立法院請問一下我想請問部長你們現在是對於律師之前訓練的這個經費是不是真的是有下修 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是有少給全綠會嗎跟委員報告像原來編的預算是331萬因為統三的關係所以統三10%所以變成是預算是297合定是2979000元那這部分是有有凍結50萬可是統三的部分的話你們自己中間可以去做一些調配嘛對不對你們為什麼要去刪這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
503.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
律師值錢委外訓練費用我們當時並沒有說要統刪並沒有刪這個部分如果要刪50萬的話我當時就直接我們就刪了我們只是凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
532.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
跟委員報告因為這一次去年以上次上個年度來講的話因為預算不符因為實際核算的決算的是386他是預算數是331但是覺得是386萬餘顏那預算不準是有檢查室的業務費的流但是這一次是沒辦法沒辦法流用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為最主要是沒辦法留用那另外這次那個委辦的預算我們是編了六百八十七萬四千元律師職員訓練是佔了百分之四十八所以這部分的確是因為不足所以這次我們就減減了變成是辦五次的一個職權的一個訓練的一個梯次 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
部長我想要講的就是我們其實當時每筆預算都好好看包含項目細項的部分我們刪的是檢查事務費用包含宣傳費或是其他一些費用並沒有要去刪這個律師的委外訓練費用當時只是說凍結50萬可是因為你們的捅刪而且你們釋放出錯誤的訊息以至於讓外界認為說是我們立法院刪了這個律師執行訓練的費用這50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
613.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對我之前我就已經有說這防部次長的這種說法根本就是在造謠你們自己內部的調整跟我們立法院有什麼關係是你們認為說律師值錢訓練費用這部分是可以少所以你們自己把它又刪了然後讓人家本來是一年半六次在去年就已經宣告說一年半六次的這個踢訓後來變成是就是少一個踢次變成是五個踢次那中間又有一些踢次的時間的日期不是很恰當 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
經過本席請你們法務部來協調後來才調整出一個比較適當的梯子但是現在仍然是辦五個梯子 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
623.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
628.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是用線上跟那個實體的一個上對現在總之就是辦五個梯子嘛所以我們原來的意思是說你們331萬的預算我們凍結50萬你們提出專案報告之後就可以解凍還是應該要以辦六個梯子為主結果你們現在自己刪了刪了之後又已經公告現在只辦五個梯子所以本席的想法是說那現在我給你解凍這50萬是什麼意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有意義啦 你這50萬看起來你們又流去做什麼宣傳費沒有沒有 跟委員報告因為我們是一個委辦會用是編了687萬4千元那我們現在是同3%所以其他的各項的委辦會全部都是3%所以那個律師職權的訓練費正好佔這一筆的委辦會的48% |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
48%所以這邊如果全部統三的話我們沒辦法再去從其他的委辦的項目再去去支應就是這樣去留意我跟你講就算是你刪了10%的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
707.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個事實上你們現在第一次也都縮減了所以看起來也沒有解凍這50萬的必要因為你們就少辦了好我跟你講這個部分我們之後再來談那更重要的是說按照律師法的規定我之前就已經講了109年通過的律師法當時說之前訓練的這個辦理律師之前訓練是要由全國律師公會來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
709.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以相關的辦法也應該要提早要提出來那你們的公告呢 之前一直沒有公告那我最近看到了 行政院現在已經公告了嘛116年要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
722.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
734.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這已經報行政院核定已經報行政院核定嗎?已經看到了嗎?116年才公告實施核定了那個116年會1月1號會來所以也就是說從109年到115年的這麼多年的時間都是法務部在出這筆費用而不是由全國律師公會出這筆費用對不對?這個是一個委辦的一個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
774.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委辦的費用我從...對,沒有錯,就是由法務部來支應這個委辦費可是從律師法當時的修正裡面看不出來是由法務部要委辦而是由律師公會自己要去出這筆錢至於說辦理之前訓練的費用是不是要由律師自己負擔一些費用這個是當時你們在修法時候的情況嘛你當時修法為什麼要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
775.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
792.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
就是因為想說之後這個基礎訓練一個月的基礎訓練上課的費用可能就是由全國律師公會來辦理那麼至於他要不要跟這些來受訓的學生然後來收一些上課的費用就是當時的想法他們可能會要來受律師訓練這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
796.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個才剛考上的律師學生們他們要自己要負擔一些費用結果呢你們一直遲遲的不去公告相關的這個辦法不去公告這個相關的作業規則那麼反而都是由國家一直來出這筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
813.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
838.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那個更委員報告那個已經公告了那再來的話就是要有全聯會來處理好我希望這個辦法趕快提出來因為本席也要看已經施行了這辦法已經施行了不好意思那之後再提出來你們的辦法給我來看好謝謝部長那接下來我還要問一下矯正署最後矯正署今天有來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
850.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
857.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
針對矯正署的部分本席在之前有看到我們上次的預算案第398項的預算案你們有提個專案報告在當時的預算是凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
865.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
889.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
辦理矯正醫療及訓練業務3000萬這筆錢本來是編了9億我們凍結了3000萬然後希望你們能夠提出一個專案報告那麼特別是針對矯正署保外醫治的審查機制來做一個專案報告請問署長你有看到你們提出的專案報告內容嗎有你們寫了多少字你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
897.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
914.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
可能這個委員看的那個是比較簡要的會有一個專案報告專案報告呢9頁我怎麼沒有看到我這裡只有只有兩頁而且呢不到400字你們是今天才提的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
917.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
939.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是什麼時候寫 是跟我這邊講的398的這個案子一樣嗎專案報告可是你們提供給我們的書面資料就是這兩頁啊而且這兩頁裡面你們只寫了不到400個字耶然後就要解凍3000萬然後內容非常的空白你們法規抄給我 抄給我們這些委員們看因為就整個勞務部有很多案子我們這邊業績是蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
948.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
972.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
別的解凍案其實也都是寫得很完整你們這個時代是太草率了啦 對不對然後你們說截至到114年3月31號保外醫治的在外人數504人在外超過9年的有32人你們總是要列個表大概是什麼樣的情況竟然有保外就醫超過9年而且甚至更長的你們都沒有寫出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
976.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
997.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你們這樣子的一個專案報告方式讓本席非常不能認同報告委員 這個專案報告裡面有列表委員可以再詳細看一下好 希望你待會把你們所謂的9頁的報告給我們所有委員看好 沒問題可能放水這樣的一個解凍案是 沒問題好 以上謝謝委員好 |