| IVOD_ID |
161182 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161182 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-12T09:57:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-12T10:09:37+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2e24114430e85d527868d13f2be8616e63ba08a40ece61fce877ab6b0e850c6a077d9df624e048115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:57:34 - 10:09:37 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於監察院主管預算凍結項目共1案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共7案。
三、審查及處理114年度中央政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。
四、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共23案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席、各位同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.229 |
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49.46 |
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我們今天本委會安排了要處理這個114年度中央政府總預算有關監察院、行政院、人事行政總署還有考試院、法務部所屬主管機關的這些相關的預算凍結案件我們要來進行討論跟處理那這樣子我們就看到說在去年的預算審查過程中我們今天只找四個單位來 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.343 |
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68.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們這個預算凍結案就高達39案,總共加起來監察院1案、人事行政總署7案、考試院8案、法務部23案,加起來39案39案只有6加2,8分鐘的時間,要討論39案實在是質短情長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.079 |
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98.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以我們沒有辦法一個一個來討論今天我們非常難得監察院的李秘書長還有考試院的劉秘書長來到立法院來到我們司法法治委員會但是很抱歉今天沒有辦法讓你們上台沒有時間,39案討論不到你們的案子現在主流,我是不是先請調查局的陳局長好,請陳局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
138.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
委員好區長好很抱歉我們今天這個有39案但是我個人39案裡面有一個案子我個人特別關心因為這個從立法開始就是我們這個司法法治委員會這樣子過程到你們編列預算到他被凍結到現在要看看能不能執行這正好是我們屬於調查局的預算所以今天就請陳局長上來跟陳局長請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
143.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
159.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個我們就是我們本委員會在這個去年7月31號我們總統公布有關通訊保障監察法是去年7月我們本委員通過總統公告的公告實施的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
161.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
188.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
統計保障監察法裡面的第十四支一條第十四支一條裡面有關於這個相關有關網路流量的這個記錄這些系統第十四支一條的第六項裡面有法源的依據啦網路流量系統的這個設置方式保存方式保存期間查詢作業程序調取的項目監督廢額及其他相關事項辦法由法務部會同內政部並 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
189.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
210.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
會商這個國家通訊傳播委員會相關機關定資也就是說這個是法源依據有關於為我們現在要執行網路流量紀錄相關的這些作業這個是現在目前是有法源對法源依據有法源依據但是有法源依據我們必須要有後製後續的這些這些這個預算你要這個相關的設備你要設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
228.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不是說我有一個法說我要保留這些網路流量記錄結果我不用設備就可以保留嗎所以接下來我們就是應該法源通過有法源依據之後我們就應該要盡速的編列跟這個設置這個相關設備的這些經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
230.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那這一次法務部的這些凍結案裡面我看到我們的書面報告的第20案尤其是我們近日網路的犯罪可以說是它不像傳統的這些犯罪形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
本來要怎麼樣偵辦這些網路犯罪它就是一個重大挑戰所以在這個重大挑戰裡面這些相關的經費我個人認為是相當的重要啦那這樣的經費被凍結被刪除我個人都認為說我們大家每一個委員不分黨派都在這裡講喊要打炸要打炸我們也大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
267.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在很短的時間內很高度的公司通過打炸釋法通訊檢查法給了法源依據但是在設置相關設備的時候預算編出來就把有的就砍掉了刪除了有的就給它凍結了那今天我要討論這個就是凍結的那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
311.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我知道這個有一筆我剛剛講的第二十案它是由我們調查局來主管但是它整個我看這整個它是在一個大計畫大計畫在網路科技運用精進計畫這個計畫不是我們調查局主政的是警政署主政的一個大的網路科技運用精進計畫裡面很小一部分由我們調查局這邊來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
334.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那整個這個我看這個原本的這個預算齁整個整個計劃的預算裡面這個我們調查局今年本來是編五億零四百萬最早整個計劃當時你們提報的建設費用是要十二億的最早是十二億八千三百萬對不對但是分年分年對分年對但整個總計劃原本是十二億但是後來我們因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
340.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們為什麼後來在最後計畫核定之後降到8億是吧對是後來降成8億最主要原因是什麼因為其實整個就是設備啦還有這個技術等等的投資啦那我們也就是說盡量跟這個原先跟外部機關大家共用啦對不對原先你原本想投資的設備後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
大家共用的一些設備所以你們自己其實在這個計畫從12億8300萬你們在正式合訂的時候其實你們已經調降到最小的8億了啦那8億裡面你們分年執行今年114年度的預算是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
387.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
本來是編5億零4百萬統三的時候其實這筆預算其實統三的時候已經被刪了3944.8萬了統三的時候剩下4億6455萬對不對對 然後又被動了2500萬所以我們今天要處理這2500萬那這整個建制我覺得這個大家都在講說這個這個要打詐啦 這個網路犯罪啦 嚴重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
404.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
420.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那但是我們要建制的預算卻把我們凍結了啦齁那這個我現在要最重要的是說齁我們這個這個我們現在這個整個八億的部分到底是要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
421.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
450.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們這個主要就是這個整個計畫是前端是警政署建置的所以是包括他是把所有三大電信業者的這些網路的這些資訊流量全部通通都儲存起來那我們後端就是去抓那個資料來我們後端這邊來做分析那這個分析會可以讓我們得到什麼得到比如說我們現在有很多這個網路的犯罪他的IP的位置是在哪裡然後如果是不同的IP的話他有沒有勾連到相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以這個後端的這些整個是由警政署做但後端的不只我們法務部調查局後端分成兩部分警政署他也有做後端的分析調查局也有做後端的分析那我們就是只取後端的分析那一小部分出來做而已所以我們這個後端這個主要就是在這個部分我看到說你們事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
479.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
492.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是不是原本我看到你們有一個電信網路流量記錄系統的一個概念驗證事實上已經發包執行對這部分不包括在這個預算裡面這個沒有這個等於就是有點像這個工程的這個前期的這個設計規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你們招標的預算是1790萬那個已經執行掉了我們一定要先做一個概念驗證看看我們這樣子想的到底實際上能不能做得到那這個概念驗證已經告訴我們說這個是可以做到那這次的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
518.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
536.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個我們跟之前採購的我們這個具體內容它效益有沒有重複投資有沒有資源浪費就是我們過去已經執行跟中華電信執行過了沒有沒有那後續的這些是不是你除了中華電信以外你還有其他的這些電信系統業者我們也要進行這樣子相關驗證嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
558.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不用我們這個系統最主要是要剛剛你有提到強調有關這些網路行為的關聯分析有關多重事件的比對大概就是這些資安事件的追查還有這些假訊息、認知作戰還有這些最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
585.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
使用這個VPN的這種匿蹤工具你剛剛講說要查出他的IP位置這些相關都是用這筆預算嘛對不對那這些這個系統限制以後我們預期有哪些類型的案件有沒有評估過我們能夠如何提升我們這個只要是在網路上他整個犯罪的過程有經過網路了其實在這一個後端的分析系統都是一個很強的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
586.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個部分我是希望說等一下我們如果說進入預算解凍的階段這個大家每一個部分黨派來上來都說要打炸要打炸那我們也通過了這些法源依據也都給了但圖有法源依據你沒有這些相關的不給經費沒有相關的這些設備來執行這個網路流量這個未來這等於是大家都嘴巴講空話 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
612.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
634.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我希望說等一下在這個預算解凍的時候這個部分大家能夠讓這個相關的這些治安機關能夠順利的來執行那最後我再一點點時間就是我過去一直很關心因為這個也是跟這個案子相關啦我過去一直很關心我們那個2017年2017年我們思改國事會議的時候提出這個應該要設置國家級的政務保管機關那這個國家級的政務保管機關我們現在要做的這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
642.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個有關網路的流量記錄的調取他的這些相關這些整合數位證據的這些監管我們要在納入我們整個我剛所講的這個國家級的證據保管中心的這樣的看法之下有沒有我們有沒有制定這些相關的這些內部的資料使用的分析他的資料使用分析跟保存銷毀的相關流程這些相關流程的辦法我們有沒有制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
684.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個就是說將來這個資料的分析這個都是要另狀主義然後這些資料取下來了以後會有一個完整的一個資料的保存的一個相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
685.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
704.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有一些辦法要訂定啦現在是沒有的我剛講的這些資料如何使用分析如何保存如何銷毀這些相關的執法規定都還沒有這個部分我特別希望這些證據監管的技術標準 集合機制這些我們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
706.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
能夠盡快的先制定這些相關的辦法啦齁那我是希望你們能夠在三個月內針對你們訂定的計畫這個你們要制定的情形齁提交一個書面報告來給我是好不好是好好謝謝委員謝謝 |