| IVOD_ID |
161136 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161136 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T14:14:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T14:29:51+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/26c557d936b203c123986714bea75842bf088656e97d3403c59ceea3ce0d89f75d0c75dcc8d4630c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:14:16 - 14:29:51 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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謝謝召委,麻煩有請部長還有廠照室市長我還在等時間就開始跑了,沒有關係啦,三一提醒而已啦開始今天質詢的主題以前,我先請教一下朱市長 |
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37.179 |
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那個市長,現在休息期間的時候,還有要桶仁聖敦嗎?沒有,從那個事件發生之後,就先停止了先停止,那以後會繼續嗎? |
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54.524 |
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現在同仁就是都是都是怎麼樣有一些就是自己放音樂他就會自己站起來沒有啦同仁如果自願做的話沒有人會禁止像我晚上如果要去健身房深蹲那也是我的選擇但是我自己要做深蹲跟我上面的長官用逼迫可能從你的角度來講太強烈 |
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用你鼓勵沒有關係啦各方有各方的說法嘛現在我要確定一件事情你還有繼續鼓勵同仁做深蹲嗎基本上已經沒有了你會不會再要同仁去比福利挺身那個真的是誤會但是你不會這樣做嗎 |
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本來就沒有這樣子那未來也不會嗎當然不會未來也不會啦我只是要這個承諾啦 |
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116.051 |
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138.331 |
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衛福部的調查報告出來各界有很多指教啦我相信部長有看到啦我相信市長也有看到我今天之所以問這個問題我不是要接以前的倉巴是希望我要確保這件事情不會再發生部長可以承諾齁可以好進入今天的主題啊就有關於啊 |
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豬肉用萊克多巴胺很多委員大家都很關心今天過一個臨時提案我也看到了從我們所謂的客觀可接受的健康風險管理到底萊克多巴胺的劑量多少是客觀可接受對人體不會造成傷害 |
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165.596 |
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190.397 |
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我來跟委員說說目前定起來因為國內針對牛跟豬牛可食的牛肉部分是0.01ppm那豬肉部分跟其他可食部分是0.01ppm所以這是客觀可接受的健康風險嗎就是在很多獨立的專家食安的專家以及在所以這些專家所建立的標準我們的衛福部也是接受嗎 |
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當初在整個的討論的過程中後來是有通過這樣的標準在消除這邊要按照這樣的基準來做管理對啊所以我就說你就針對問題回答嘛0.01ppm這件事情是我們的衛福部代表我們政府的立場客觀可接受的風險嘛是嗎 |
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是的那所以在這個劑量之下對人體健康不會有傷害嗎就是沒有證據特別提到他的傷害性是是是我們目前國內養豬的時候可以用來各多白案嗎目前國內是沒有那為什麼國內要禁止使用剛剛你不是說0.01ppm是客觀的標準是科學的標準是專家討論以後的標準現在我就想不懂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在台灣100%禁用萊克多巴胺它的理由是什麼?是因為台灣的豬一旦有萊克多巴胺不管劑量有多少都對健康有風險嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我想應該不是這樣子的那是什麼那是當初的一個背景之下希望對當初什麼背景因為國內的豬肉大概佔百分之九十所以相對於進口的有可能允許的情況之下中間那個競合對國人的選擇上面那有提供不一樣的選擇那市場上面齁不一樣的選擇是消費者的選擇啊這跟國家法規範的標準是兩回事啊都要混為一談啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
您今天作為專家作為政務官那我就希望代表政府的立場告訴全台灣人民我們客觀可接受專家的標準到底是什麼嗎現在我就想不懂了如果我們政府的標準是認為0.01ppm是客觀可接受的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那為什麼國內的豬肉禁止使用萊克多巴胺我只要不要超過0.01ppm就好啦不是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
321.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
341.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就這個議題上面可能他決定的層次會超越在食藥署在訂定當時安全的一個標準的一個考量之下講的具體一點所謂超越食藥署的標準是如何的超越法我想他是整個行政團隊從是哪個行政團隊很早以來在租目前的這個行政團隊還是也用這個標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想在整體上在針對美豬的訂定的時候已經訂完標準我們在所以我現在今天在委員會裡面我們要談科學就來談科學嘛我現在搞不懂啊外國的豬肉可以台灣的豬肉不可以外國的豬肉0.01以下的就是安全台灣0.01以下的還是不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
理由到底是什麼台灣的是沒有使用是我知道嘛沒有使用跟法規上面不能使用是兩回事嘛剛剛我已經把這個問題的層次剖析得很清楚了嘛消費者的選擇是消費者的選擇啊消費者他當然有選擇的自由啊我們在資訊的提供上有沒有給消費者選擇的自由那是另外一個層次的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
400.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我現在的問題是規範上面的標準為什麼有這樣的差別對待這邊跟委員做進度報告因為這一點是當初在農業部定下所謂國內養豬不用萊克多巴胺是提到的是說希望能夠確保台灣豬肉競爭力所以這部分其實是跨部會在提到這件事情你的意思是什麼沒有使用萊克多巴胺會比較有競爭力是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
448.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
否則你剛講那句話根本不成立啊沒有使用萊克多巴胺會比較有競爭力是這樣嗎這個我不是很確定每一個消費者的想要的奇怪這個不是你剛講的嗎還是你剛的意思是說沒有使用萊克多巴胺會降低競爭力這個是農業部提出來的所以不關衛福部的事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個部分我們是在健康的標準上面的維護所以我今天就跟你討論健康的標準你繞來繞去不敢回答嘛從衛福部的觀點來講0.01ppm以下就是安全的嘛是嗎是吧我們在邊境查查的時候一直用這樣的標準是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
495.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你在邊境查查為什麼用這個標準因為這個標準以下是安全的嘛 對嗎那相對我們在國內的後市場端等等的國內的查查也一樣的用同樣的標準你的意思是說在國內也是用一樣的標準對 我們都沒有查到目前是會檢出的所以如果在國內裡面查到0.001ppm的話在法規上面是允許的嗎我講的是本國的豬肉在法規上面是允許的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
0.001ppm就像現在澳洲豬腳查到的量是一樣的目前是不行目前是不行嘛對嘛所以我就在問你嘛差別對待的理由在哪裡嘛這邊跟委員特別說明了當初其實應該是在農業部訂下這樣子特別提到了這樣一段話他是提到說為確保台灣豬肉競爭力台灣豬絕對不使用瘦肉精對嘛所以我就問你嘛確保台灣豬肉競爭力是什麼意思嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
527.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
奇怪打高空講一些空話講一些一般人民聽得懂的好不好什麼叫提升台灣豬肉有競爭力就代表是說不用萊克多巴胺比較有競爭力嘛是不是這樣是嗎還是農業部這句話什麼意思作為衛福部的官員其實你也不是很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
568.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個部分的確我們尊重跨部會農業部的說法對啊 所以如果連你都看不懂的話一般的消費者怎麼看得懂連我們衛福部的官員都看不懂啊一般的消費者怎麼會看得懂啊還是我們現在在政府當官的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
570.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
583.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
專門講抽象的打太極講虛無縹緲的搞到農業部那句話是什麼意思連衛福部的官員都聽不懂那一般的人看得懂嗎一般的人看得懂嗎我打開天窗說亮話台灣豬絕不使用瘦肉精提升國產豬肉競爭力為什麼因為消費者不希望有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
597.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
600.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
旅遊就是這樣嘛這有什麼好閃躲的本來就是這個樣子嘛那為什麼一般的消費者不喜歡有來濟的大家會擔心嘛將心比心嘛站在一般人的觀點來思考這個問題嘛這個事情有這麼複雜嗎為了要幫一個奇怪的政策辯護繞來繞去繞來繞去 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
626.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
640.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
為什麼要做這樣的宣示就是希望台灣的消費者安心 事情就這麼簡單嘛部長我說的對不對從民眾的立場來講 應該是這樣會比國內比較有競爭力你覺得消費者會關心台灣的豬肉有沒有競爭力喔消費者關心的是台灣的豬肉好不好吃 安不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
652.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
666.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是不是他們會比較傾向於買這種對嘛那你覺得消費者應該要有資的權利嗎到底有還沒有消費者有沒有權利知道當然要有資的權利當然要有資的權利嘛所以如果我驗出的話應不應該要標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
668.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
695.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們標示原產地就知道...你這樣子...部長你這樣回答問題很危險你標的原產地就知道原料的原產地不是啦,這樣風險非常的高啦因為有的澳洲的有用,有的沒有用嘛那消費者在意的是什麼消費者在意的是說到底有用沒有用嘛剛剛你也承認啊,說消費者應該有吃的權利啊所以我才問你啊,是不是應該要標示啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
696.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
721.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
阿你覺得應不應該標示現在的國內國外的牛豬都是一體試用就是原料原產地的標誌這樣子這個事情未來會不會改變這個事情未來會不會改變現在大家擔心的是第二個層次的事情了啦原產地的標誌會不會堅持我們目前就是啊我知道目前是這樣我的意思是會不會繼續堅持下去啊譬如說美國認為這個是非關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
727.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那要求台灣改衛福部的立場會不會鬆動衛福部的立場就是站在維護人民的健康跟食安所以會不會鬆動 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
740.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
758.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
當然還是人民的利益跟國家的發展這個是我們考量的你講的很有藝術啦我拜託你講一些庶民聽得懂的話啦美國要求原產地標示拿掉台灣政府立場會不會鬆動會還是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
761.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
786.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你有比較有氣魄的說絕對不會鬆動我跟台灣人民保證衛福部的立場很堅定我們為了要捍衛台灣消費者的權益這件事情的立場我們絕對不鬆動你這樣說就好了嘛衛福部一定保證我們一定要堅持食安至上那至於說那個所以原產地標示你會不會堅持我們就按照這個根據國際的標準的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
790.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
813.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
的規定我們按規定來處理啊所以現在的規定是什麼現在的規定是什麼現在的規定就是原料原產地要標示嘛啊這個規定會不會變動會不會隨著美方的壓力而變動其實大家在意的就是這個問題嘛你講的支支吾吾的你直接回答問題有這麼難嗎還是上面有交代這個事情不可以承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
815.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
842.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
是有交代是嗎?沒有啦,你如果有交代我就算了啦因為我為難你沒有意思嘛這沒有交代,我們只是按照大家的...所以如果沒有交代,部長就不用擔心你比較氣派在這邊就承諾,我承諾原產地的標示我們現在的標準絕對不會鬆動,好不好因為政府是一體的啦,尊重各個...所以是會有哪個部會有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
843.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
870.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這個我也不清楚我們就是一起來討論站在人民第一國家至上的立場我相信含口號都非常會部長真的辛苦真的要擔任這個部長真的很辛苦要想出各式各樣抽象的詞來迴避問題但是我不為難你我只表達一個立場過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
874.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
882.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們為了國際經貿情勢台灣人讓不過台灣人讓不過為什麼我說是台灣人讓不過從我剛質詢的第一個問題就清楚呈現出來我們讓不過結果換到什麼這個是現在大家在問的問題這是現在大家在問的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
895.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
919.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
現在我們要不要退第二步這個是現在大家關心的問題從我得到民間社會絕大多數的反應認為原產定的標示退無可退不能再退了我希望這些人民的聲音部長要放在心裡面好不好可以嗎你沒有發現我已經退一步沒有讓你承諾了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
924.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
931.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我簡單的要你把這句話放在心裡面,這樣沒有很困難吧?黃委員的話,我永遠都放在心裡好啦好啦,謝謝 |