| IVOD_ID |
161129 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161129 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T13:15:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T13:28:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/26c557d936b203c16785d4cd5ba16557bf088656e97d34035710b400f5dcf92492745e27300ebd055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:15:59 - 13:28:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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好 謝謝主席主席請一下長照師 處市長委員好市長好 市長我只有問你讓部長跟市長休息一下你能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.762 |
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用最簡單的方式最少的時間大概跟我講一下長照2.0跟長照3.0最大的區別到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
48.664 |
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好那簡單講其實他的基本的理念跟架構其實都是延續的都是以人為本社區為基礎提供連續性的照顧那在3.0要去強化的就是2.0過往跟醫療的那個銜接上面還是沒有很及時所以我們3.0要強化他能夠及時能夠接住銜接上盡量無縫能夠銜接 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.997 |
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85.835 |
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醫療面向就有很多元所以這一塊是我們一個強化重點第二個強化重點就是我們要導入一些積極的賦能就是配合在醫療這一端接過來之後不管他今天是在家還是今天在社區在這些相關不同場域裡面怎麼樣透過一些怎麼樣的鼓勵機制讓我們的長輩能夠被訓練讓他可以自主生活盡量減少依賴照顧這是第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.621 |
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117.86 |
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那第三個部分當然會有伴隨因為2.0這邊有一些的檢討的一些服務的不足那這個部分會來積極強化把這樣的一個資源補起來老師我為什麼這樣子問呢因為就是我們從長照1.0 2.0到3.0其實我個人是不大喜歡這樣子的分類長照制度就是一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.641 |
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136.676 |
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那你剛剛講的也是在長照制度裡面加入醫療體系事實上醫療支撐事實上這個本來也是廣義長照的一環我實在是不知道為什麼你們會一直很喜歡用1.0、2.0、3.0我怕過幾年到10.0所以我才刻意提出這個問題 |
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144.522 |
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171.513 |
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就是增加醫療的照護其實本身本來就是長照的一環長照是不可能脫離脫離醫療照護的好那我我先問就是說我們長照需求服務的涵蓋率是用需求人數推估的需求人數好那我問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.614 |
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193.554 |
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上一次的推估在113年就去年必須要需求的人需求的人數是94萬那衛福部最新的統計數字出來只有將近90萬差距超過5% 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.986 |
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217.276 |
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委員您提的94萬是在長照2.0的核定本裡面的退估數那我們目前的退估數是因應人工普查的資料出來之後那有一些改變因為2.0的時期當時用的一些相關的參數包括失能率那時候是12.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.797 |
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247.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那到了這個等於在2.0執行的過程裡面因為人口普查又重新公告了已經從12.6調高到13.3所以我們就是重新把這些參數重算那對於過往2.0裡面有一些這個相關的一些身障的一些推估他採取的是高推估跟衰弱的部分也採取高推估那我們就是在這一批整體重新做一些處理低推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.838 |
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263.621 |
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我們把它調整因為因為身心障礙者65歲以上的增加幅度高可是他未滿65歲的這一塊他的年輕型的障礙者他其實人數是沒有那樣子的大幅增加所以我們就是改採低推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
264.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
291.931 |
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所以才有這個數字的一個變動我這樣子問呢是因為其實事實上就是要推估本身就是一件很困難的事情啦要精準的推估本來就不過呢因為你推估出來的人數會影響到需求服務涵蓋率對不對所以我希望你們就是我不覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
321.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
政府必須要把很多數字美化我覺得我現在不是在說你這件事我個人覺得就是應該是多少人數就多少人數我們服務的多少就服務多少總是盡可能的把事情做到最完美這個才是對的總比把數字文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
322.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
做的美化這個高明的多好不好我大概就是希望你們以後再推估的時候可以再精準一點因為這個會影響影響影響到後續很多很多東西包括預算的的編列好不好跟委員報告3.0這邊的退估就是用分零了因為我們後來新的調查有分零的失能率好 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
350.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
台灣今年開始邁入超高齡社會高齡人口的總數已經超過20%我們目前面臨的有關長照比較有問題的是台灣接受長照服務的平均年齡是76歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
374.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
398.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
也就是說在十年後戰後嬰兒潮的人口在這十年之內會逐步達到長照需求那現在有幾個問題我來人力上你們可能要盡可能的儲備長照所需要的人力另外一個就是我們的財源 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.77 |
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425.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為戰鬥嬰兒潮的人數太多了占台灣總人口數的占比太高了根據OECD的國家統計長照的支出大概要占GDP的1.8%而且八成為公共長照支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
428.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
457.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
事實上我再講一次長照的總體支出要佔到GDP的1.8%而且其中這1.8%要八成是公共長照支出可是台灣這幾年長照的總支出未達GDP的百分之一公共支出更只佔四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
481.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
假如說比照韓國長照支出佔GDP的1.11.1就好了台灣的長照支出必須要有2600億以上可是今年只編列了900多億也就是說900多億是我們用韓國的1.1%來做比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
490.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
513.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
其實我們現在編列的只有必須編列的四成市長我這段話你有聽懂嗎有好那我想要問一下就是說面對人口結構的變化未來的支出一定會一直上升 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
516.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
543.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在財源上我們現在單靠遺產稅、菸稅、菸捐和房地合一稅可以支應嗎目前是無餘因為我們現在累積的盈餘現在有2039億那我剛才就講了嘛因為我們的公共支出佔比太低嘛人民自行吸收的太高嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
545.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
560.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以你才會覺得夠用嘛你假如說是按照OECD的標準八成必須要是公共長照裁員那你是不夠的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
561.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
584.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這部分也要跟委員說明因為畢竟就是我們不管今天是長照還是小朋友幼兒的照顧其實在國家的立場其實是幫忙家庭一起來照顧大概沒有辦法替代家人照顧所以這個跟OECD國家有一些是走福利體系的國家的概念其實是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
586.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
593.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
就是因為賦稅的問題師長這麼說呢我是覺得台灣這幾年的經濟成長跟台灣邁向高齡化台灣強調福利國政策然後我們把長照做這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
610.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
635.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
的定位我覺得我覺得我好像不能介紹因為福利國家的話基本上的稅負每一個民眾的繳稅的稅負要高那現階段我們台灣的整個的一個稅負大概只有佔14%跟福利國家高達三四成以上是截然不同對對不是我現在我現在我現在講的是說是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
637.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
643.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
譬如我這樣子講啦市長你把長照定義為個人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
646.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
672.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
應該是說政府沒有辦法替代家人照顧沒有辦法替代對 是協助家人一起來做照顧就跟小朋友的照顧是一樣的概念所以我們已經沒有 我們不排富了相關的都普及式的都可以提供只是提供的方式是跟著家人一起來我因為時間的關係啦所以我大概也不想佔用其他的同事太多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
675.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
682.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就剛剛包括我的題目裡面就大家都覺得你們現在編了900多億從屏東到台中 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
713.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
到澎湖我相信是全台灣都覺得關懷據點給的經費太少那我也一直強調我向來主張預防勝於治療關懷據點做得好後續的長照支出就會少所以關懷據點這個從伙食到人力這個你們真的必須要很快的把 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
715.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
744.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
把補助金額提高我最後一個問題讓你回去想就是說假如說我們真的真的國家的財政沒有辦法支出很多的長照讓高齡化的台灣可以有一個安定的長照制度來支應老人生活為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
745.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
752.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
為什麼你們從來不考慮從來不考慮走保險制保險制 長照保險或者是保險跟公務預算雙軌這個我讓你待會去想不過我想我會找一天好好的跟你們討論這個問題謝謝市長 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
774.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
774.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝袁偉仁 謝謝市長 |