| IVOD_ID |
161044 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161044 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T09:37:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T09:46:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/26c557d936b203c1557828cad76de0ffcf7df95ebd13a46f5f5e885147c9c9bca0f504e0321c6ed85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張宏陸 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:37:05 - 09:46:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十四條之一條文草案」案。三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案。【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案。】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.924 |
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31.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
請署長請吳署長保證你先休息來署長就剛剛大家說老宅延壽的一個問題其實也有人在問我們的這個政策是好但是老宅延壽是一戶還是要一棟 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
62.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
說明一下它有分兩塊因為我們希望讓老宅能夠作為這個尤其是老人家或小孩他的一個無障礙的空間的通行是最重要不能只有在室內而是整個公共區域的無障礙通行跟安全是首要所以整棟的這個改造是一定需要的那除此之外如果各戶有室內修繕的必要我們也是朝向以無障礙跟安全性的設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
為主來進行補貼所以我想這是我們在做這方面的時候是考量到整棟大樓的一個安全性為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主長最主要的是很多市民會問我一戶可不可以申請就這麼簡單的問題所以他如果是整棟還是要整棟出來申請那會改善他的公共區域因為如果只有你自己的室內的話我知道整棟一定符合標準整棟一定可以申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不一定整棟的人每個人都要啊是啊他如果一戶可不可以申請一戶目前來講我們會覺得比較不符合這整個原來希望整個公共區域安全的這樣的一個一個一個標準對是啦所以如果這樣子的話我跟你講這個啊效率可能會打折扣真的會打折扣因為我跟你講如果整棟啊都可以申請都同意的話啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
照這種條件的房子啊幾乎都有可以圍牢了啦呃 跟我們報告齁其實因為分擔的比例其實差距很大因為圍牢的部分齁很多都還有分擔的問題那分擔的量是蠻大的那因為我們剛剛提到這些整修的部分齁他的負擔金額是相對比較低的那所以我們是希望不一定要走到圍牢但是他如果能夠改善讓他方便住在裡面其實相對是比較好的哇 我 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
立你們的方向你們什麼的我不是反對我也很支持但是你也知道其實如果以這個為以你們這個老巫岩獸其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
171.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
199.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
比較需要的大概都是在都會區啦是整個沒有什麼他也不可能來給你申請啦所以在都會區裡面如果因為一戶他不同意他不想分攤那些啊我可能我住一樓的我幹嘛給你分攤電梯啊我也用不到這個是以前就遇到的問題了嘛以前就遇到的問題了嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我覺得啦,如果我們真的要來推這個,可能可以思考一下啦因為你真的要解決吼,這個無障礙,解決什麼的這些東西當然利益良善,但我怕,我怕你做了一年之後,你來檢討你的執行進度,哇,可能不高喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這點我是先提醒了解委員的意思因為過程中過去的執行經驗大概就是一樓的反對是最大的所以這個部分我想我們現在是有顧問團這樣的一個做法那我們會來整合一下過去大家的經驗來看是不是有機會適度修正當然不一定說只要一戶就可以申請但是同一比例的部分我想我們可以來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
可以啦,因為你也知道以前的經驗大家都知道,也不用講我就是不要,我幹嘛我用不到的我幹嘛去配合這個這個是這樣,那另外再來署長你可能也有很多食物的經驗台北、新北、桃園、台中我們如果要都更、要什麼的,條件會一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
292.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不一樣對嘛 一定不一樣嘛對 狀況都有不太一樣土地的價值跟你的這個基地的面積跟你的等等的所有的條件都考慮進去這一定是不一樣的條件嘛對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那如果不一樣的條件我今天看了這個修法這個裡面有的人好像是會想說用一個比較像租賃比較公平的契約大家這樣子有個遵循那出發點 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不能說不對啦出發點也好像是讓大家有所依循不過就沒有考慮到每個的差異性那你這樣子的話這跟租房子不一樣喔可能到時候你會不會擔心到時候所有都跟反而因為這樣卡住 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
344.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
感謝委員因為的確合建協議合建這件事情這麼多年來在都更條例裡面一直不太想去處理是因為他是純屬失契約之間的約定方式第二個就是說他的約定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
內容喔越來越多變越來越多變從早期的單純協議合建呃變化成有合夥有換地那有合建分屋合建分售合建分成那甚至還有跑出新的共同入股那這樣的方式的話其實變化多到讓這樣的契約其實他 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在已經變成純屬私契約裡面各種不同形態的變化那很難在公部門訂定相關的法規裡面能去包含如果萬一沒有包含到的話反而會容易限制住那個案件的發展那所以在這過程當中我們也是非常謹慎就是說如果未來朝向是以目前的案例來訂定相關的注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那或許對民眾來講還比較有實質上的一個協助但是如果一定去強制入法的話反而我覺得會第一個綁手綁腳第二個未來對於在如果這類案件是走到消保消保的這個部分的話反而會更不利於這一個雙方在做一個位置上的一個判讀所以這也是我們在這過程當中會相對比較謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我個人反而啦如果在不涉及不涉及其他的法令的情況之下國土署你甚至可以適度的公佈人家幾個案例人家的條件的什麼什麼我跟你講這個最清楚你大家都可以有一個條件去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
444.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這類型態通常還會涉及到個人的財務狀況所以他們才會有這麼多不同型態的變化那另外一個當然就是時間的改變是對雙方對這個實施者跟地主最大的考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
484.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那糾紛往往也會出現在因為時間的改變 政策的改變雙方都希望更動合約但這個就沒有辦法由公部門的法規來處理所以我們盡可能舉出不同的樣態讓實施者跟地主來做了解也希望他們在走這方面的時候呢他能夠注意到裡面的風險你可能誤會我的意思喔我抱歉喔 再借我30秒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我必須要講我不是要你公布他所有的這個就像你剛講的你一兩個比較這個例子然後公布這個樣態讓大家可以知道一個issue我不是要你公布他所有的東西啊對不對他們的那些一些那個我們當然不能公布但 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
509.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
521.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
最在乎的是他分回多少嘛是對不對最在乎嘛那如果說有幾個例子這樣子公布的話我覺得可以有所依循啊不然妳覺得這可以回去研究看看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
如果是屬於行政上面的部分我們給我們一點時間跟各縣市地方政府在推動都更的人把所有的樣態整理出來那如果需要有一項依循的程序或是提出一個類似指導的原則的話不要先入法那其實我們是可以同意的因為我們也是希望都更可以往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
563.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我的意思就是這樣啦你至少讓大家有一個你用契約定得太死了你完全沒有空間了反而會阻礙但你把這些可能的例子給大家看大家大概就會比較清楚法律什麼多少幾趴沒人看得懂啦可以嗎好謝謝謝謝謝謝 |